WHY was Lindros worth so many possible players?

[Blue Dragon]

I seem to remember that the case went to arbitration since Lacroix had agreed to a deal with both the flyers and the rangers (and if I recall correctly the arbitrator was Bertuzzi's uncle). What would the rangers have given up?

 

[Al Bundy*]

If you want to target the credibility of HHOFers, I suggest someone like Bob Pulford.

I do agree with you there, however.

He was good, but not HOF worthy.

 

[ziggy]

Your rant is one of the funniest things I've read in years! We weren't talking about how many points he got in Pee-Wees (although apparently YOU are!), it's about his NHL days! The Legion of Doom was finished in 1997, when the Wings totally dismantled them! They came together in 1995. Pretty long period of "domination"!

You have a hard-one for Lindros, I get it. Heck maybe you ARE Eric Lindros (quoting his little boy stats, and all...), but the fact is Lindros had little impact in the NHL after 2000, and since he started his career in 1992-93, that's not a long term of "dominance". He NEVER scored 50 goals in a season, he only got 100 points ONCE...these numbers are not what dominating players get. Yes, there are intagibles, but leading league is concussions doesn't count!

Maybe you and the other disinformed poster should think that maybe Recchi and LeClair turned Lindros into a star? Just food for thought....

The thing about this thread is why Lindros could be worth so many players, and because of that the boyhood stats and pre-NHL career is vital information. I remember 1989 very clearly as well. 1989? Yes, the year Lindros was talked about as a guy ready to play in the NHL.
There has been no hype like the Lindros hype. In 1989 most sensible observers said that Lindros would crack most NHL lineups, and some people said he would be an impact player. Again, that was when Lindros was 16. At that time there were three Ones - Gretzky, Lemieux and The Next One. Two years later, before Lindros had played an NHL game he was selected to play for Team Canada in the Canada Cup. Memorable cuts from the team where Steve Yzerman and Joe Sakic.

Lindros was gonna score at least 50 goals a season on an annual basis, he was gonna be the forth player to crack the 100 assist plateau, he was gonna win the Hart and Art Ross year after year. Lindros would - singlehandedly if necessary - lead his team to at least a pair of Stanley Cups and scoop up the Conn Smyth while doing so.
He was described as a Mark Messier with a lot more skill. He would not break Gretzky´s records, he would only rack up around 150 points per season, every season for 10 to 15 years. This was what people thought about Eric Lindros from 1989 to 1992. That was the reason he netted Que all those players. Quebec didn´t want to trade him and the fact that they had to caused the city of Quebec their NHL franchise, and Lindros got Philly a new building.

About the Lindros trade: Ricci, not Forsberg, where the centerpiece of the trade. Remember that the Flyers caused quite a stirr when they picked Forsberg ahead of Näslund in the Lindros Draft. Näslund went 16th overall. Flyers swedish scout Inge Hammarström had a tough day defending picking a guy that was only known as Näslund´s center at the time, with the 6th pick.

 

[MXD]

I have to disagree with your thought on Beliveau.

IMO, Beliveau was only great because of who he played with and where he played. He basically rode the coattails of his HOF-caliber teammates for nearly 18 years.

If he had played for the Blackhawks or Bruins of the era, he would have been out of the league in five years.

As for the Islander players you mentioned, I agree with four of them, but I think John Tonelli is the most OVERRATED player in NHL history.

Wow... Don't bring this assessment too much, okay?

 

[jiggs 10]

Sure Sparky, whatever you say. Looks like a lot of what you have contributed in this thread are jokes.

I'm surprised you can type while picking your nose. Good job!

(See your avatar to figure out what I'm saying if it is too hard for you)

 

[the_speedster]

I'm surprised you can type while picking your nose. Good job!

(See your avatar to figure out what I'm saying if it is too hard for you)

I see you've begun to recover from your pwn-age! good... I mean I wouldn't want to be accused of elder abuse or anything

 

[Mothra]

broken legs and achilles injuries eventually heal... the brain... a bit different..

sounds like you speak from experience...I guess thats why you think it was the 80's Oilers team that changed the PP rule to only getting 1 goal on minor penalties

as for Lindros...the reason so many teams were willing to give up the farm was he was worth it. One thing of note....I remember an interview/article where Russ Farwell said he nixed the deal when Forsberg was added saying something along the lines that Forsberg would make people forget about Lindros in a few years. He was overruled by Jay Snider

now...if both had stayed relatively healthy Lindros would still have been the better player IMO...just an interesting take from the then GM of the Flyers

 

[MountainHawk]

I seem to remember that the case went to arbitration since Lacroix had agreed to a deal with both the flyers and the rangers (and if I recall correctly the arbitrator was Bertuzzi's uncle). What would the rangers have given up?

Rangers offer was Kovalev, Weight, Amonte, Vanbiesbrouck (or James Patrick if Beezer refused to sign that offseason), and 3 first round picks, according to Full Spectrum.

 

[Koivu84*]

Because he was like Lemieux and Messier combined

 

[Nordic*]

Detroit- Fedorov, Lidstrom, Chaisson, Lapointe, Cheveldae and draft picks.

That's just sick.


And ironic since they were two of very few players that could actually contain Lindros during his peak.

 

[captain AARON MAIDEN*]

Chicago- Belfour, Larmer, Steve Smith in a 5 player, 7 pick offer.

+In return Chicago would get Lindros & three Quebec choices, including Quebec's #1, where Keenan planned to pick Kasparitis.

Quebec though the Chicago offer was the best, and only asked them for $5 million in cash. Wirtz refused to pay, and also didn't want to pay Lindros either.

 

[FissionFire]

fixed.

Gordie Howe begs to differ.

 

[Stephen]

And I can't stand orange-colored glasses people who can't see that Lindros wasn't the next greatest thing! He was one of the top 5 players in the NHL for 3 years. Period. So what? So was Dale Hawerchuk a decade earlier! And Max Bentley 40 years earlier!

5-tools? What tools are you talking about? Lindros was a average skater, average passer, good shooter, pretty good puckhandler, bad playmaker, dirty with the stick. What tools are you thinking he had that were so great? The physical part of the game? It deterred from the rest of his game. Had he not gone out of his way to smash people, he would have lasted 10 years more in the NHL. Had he kept his head up and his stick down, maybe he would have gotten respect from other players and they would not have headhunted him in later years.

Don't you dare to compare Lindros to Beliveau in any way. Big Jean was a classy two-way superstar. Eric was a one-way baby who cried when he didn't get his way. I, personally, was glad to see his career flame out the way it did, so his place in hockey history will be diminished. I would not place him in my top 40 players ever, and not many knowledgable hockey fans would, either. I'm talking people who watched hockey before 1990., Heck, the early 1980's Isles had 5 players I would take over Lindros on their team alone (Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, Smith, Tonelli), and don't even start with the Canadiens or Oilers!

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Lindros' finesse skills lagged behind guys like Lemieux and even lesser lights like Sakic and Jagr, and probably couldn't do the kind of things an Ovechkin or Crosby can today, but he was a phenomenal talent. He was basically a far better version of Mats Sundin. Way more aggressive, impossible to contain physically, interested in hurting you, could overpower multiple defenders, fight. He had an amazing array of shots. He was a great playmaker who made an underachieving John Leclair into a 50 goal man, he was a Hart winner, tied for the scoring lead by the age of 22 and was in the finals by the age of 24 on a team that was depleted by the trade to get him, beating teams head to head versus Lemieux and Jagr, Gretzky and Messier. I also remember his Flyers dominating the Sabres one year, so maybe that's why you're bitter.

Lindros wasn't a crybaby. He had the talent to dictate his own way and chose to stay close to home to look after his education, then he didn't report to Quebec because the ownership was so unstable. How can you blame the generational talent of the 90s for not going to a market that would be out of the league 5 years later? Also, he agreed to play for a limited time to go to Quebec, but requested he be traded at some point.

I can't blame him for his run in with Flyer management. It's interesting that they've had concussion issues with guys like Roenick, Gagne this season was rushed back, Primeau was forced to retire because of his concussion problems, so they aren't exactly great when it comes to taking care of their injured. They also fired someone with cancer, so they're probably not role models for employers.

Tonelli over Lindros? Who else is in your top 40? Donald Audette? Derek King?

 

[Stephen]

sounds like you speak from experience...I guess thats why you think it was the 80's Oilers team that changed the PP rule to only getting 1 goal on minor penalties

as for Lindros...the reason so many teams were willing to give up the farm was he was worth it. One thing of note....I remember an interview/article where Russ Farwell said he nixed the deal when Forsberg was added saying something along the lines that Forsberg would make people forget about Lindros in a few years. He was overruled by Jay Snider

now...if both had stayed relatively healthy Lindros would still have been the better player IMO...just an interesting take from the then GM of the Flyers

What's interesting about that Forsberg anecdote is I wonder how well the Nords knew about Forsberg's potential in 1992? I wonder with the over hyped Ricci already already in the deal if Quebec would have taken another prospect, like Mikael Renberg? Imagine a Lindros-Forsberg one two punch. Always fun to speculate.

 

[Hasbro]

What's interesting about that Forsberg anecdote is I wonder how well the Nords knew about Forsberg's potential in 1992? I wonder with the over hyped Ricci already already in the deal if Quebec would have taken another prospect, like Mikael Renberg? Imagine a Lindros-Forsberg one two punch. Always fun to speculate.

Or if Philly took Jagr instead of ricci and included him in the trade.

Pierre Gauthier was the one who insisted to Page Forsberg was included in the deal.

Yeah Lindros a star caliber player when healthy who did have a hand in some of his problems. Even if he stayed healthy i just don't see him equaling everything the flyers gave up for him.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah Lindros a star caliber player when healthy who did have a hand in some of his problems. Even if he stayed healthy i just don't see him equaling everything the flyers gave up for him.

Well, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne and Ron Hextall were all serviceable veterans who had decent success after the trade but nothing too earth shattering, so they don't really hurt if Lindros had had a Lemieux like career.

 

[CavemanLawyer]

might be a dumb question buttt...

Does anyone have any links that detail the Flyers finances/revenue and sales before and after the Lindros deal? I'm just wondering how much of a 'Beckham' effect he had since growing up I remember watching him and hearing about him constantly. He was quite the talk of the town, obviously. Now I'm trying to see just how much the organization benefited from him in a financial view.

 

[Mothra]

might be a dumb question buttt...

Does anyone have any links that detail the Flyers finances/revenue and sales before and after the Lindros deal? I'm just wondering how much of a 'Beckham' effect he had since growing up I remember watching him and hearing about him constantly. He was quite the talk of the town, obviously. Now I'm trying to see just how much the organization benefited from him in a financial view.

Philly is one of the few cities in the US that will do very well at the gate regardless of how well the team is doing (although save for a short period they are always good)...this is only my opinion

that said.....they built a new building very soon after his arrival, cant be a total coincidence

 

[Rich Nixon]

might be a dumb question buttt...

Does anyone have any links that detail the Flyers finances/revenue and sales before and after the Lindros deal? I'm just wondering how much of a 'Beckham' effect he had since growing up I remember watching him and hearing about him constantly. He was quite the talk of the town, obviously. Now I'm trying to see just how much the organization benefited from him in a financial view.

I don't have the numbers, but he really did make the Flyers the big thing in town. I grew up in the Philly burbs in the 90's-the Sixers blew, the Phillies blew, the Eagles blew. And then there were the Flyers-but mostly Eric Lindros. All the neighborhood kids played street hockey all summer and me and I was always yelling at my super-south philly neighbors that it was pronounced "Lindrahs" not "Lindrose." I mean, the buzz and popularity he created were, financially, worth the trade. I bet they made the $15 million cash or whatever it was back on jersey sales alone. He built this franchise as it is today just by being here.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Philly is one of the few cities in the US that will do very well at the gate regardless of how well the team is doing (although save for a short period they are always good)...this is only my opinion

that said.....they built a new building very soon after his arrival, cant be a total coincidence

Ed Snider has been working on getting a new building for nearly 10 years. Very very shortly after Lindros was aquired he was able to secure the financing to get the building done. What the Lindros aquisition allowed them to do was sell out luxury boxes/club seats for the next 10 years .... that got banks attention in a hurry. Financing was done in a real hurry after that.

Snider built the Wachovia Center with private funds.

 

[Mothra]

Ed Snider has been working on getting a new building for nearly 10 years. Very very shortly after Lindros was aquired he was able to secure the financing to get the building done. What the Lindros aquisition allowed them to do was sell out luxury boxes/club seats for the next 10 years .... that got banks attention in a hurry. Financing was done in a real hurry after that.

Snider built the Wachovia Center with private funds.

side note on that...I went to the very first event at the new building (FU Center at the time?)...I still have the huge ticket with Leclair and Lindros on it...USA-vs-Canada...World Cup. Saw 3 games there form the tourny

 

[stazza18]

Lindros was the most overhyped player of all time. The media and the broadcasters gave him so much love, it was ridiculous.

As much media hype as Sidney Crosby gets, Lindros easily got double. The Flyers saw a cup dynasty with him, and they traded away their future to get him.

Agreed, anyone that ever saw him play before the injuries to his head could see how the hype machine made his career. Thanks new fanboy, most of us who actually saw him play his whole career thought he was the real deal.

 

[tony d]

That offer from Detroit would have been wonderful going back to Quebec. Can you imagine all those great teams Colorado/Quebec had if Nicklas Lidstrom had been there on the back end?

 

[Slapshooter]

He was also the toughest fighter and hardest hitter in the league.

I like Lindros and all, but that's too much. A tough fighter? Yes, especially for a star player. But the toughest in the league? No way. He has a good record, but it wasn't like Lindros was beating heavyweights on a regular basis. Winning Simon and Grimson, for example, was impressive, but it does not mean he became the heavy weight champion or something. Lindros did more than prove himself in the fights, but that did not make him the toughest fighter in the league. Not even one of the toughest, IMO.

Most likely Lindros was the hardest body hitter, though (Neely and Stevens were also sick). His intimidation power was based on his devastating hits and a mean SOB style of dirty play. Lindros could really hurt people while playing, but his fighting skills were not that feared.