WHY was Lindros worth so many possible players?

[Al Bundy*]

I was reading the "Lindros trade negotiations a look back" and I look at these offers that make me wonder if teams REALLY wanted to get him that badly:

Detroit- Fedorov, Lidstrom, Chaisson, Lapointe, Cheveldae and draft picks.

Calgary- cash, draft choices, Quebec's choice of MacInnis or Suter plus either Nieuwendyk or Reichel.

Chicago- Belfour, Larmer, Steve Smith in a 5 player, 7 pick offer.

Toronto- Felix Potvin, Wendal Clark, Dave Ellet, Berube multpile #1 picks and $15 million.

Good god!

If the Red Wings had gone through with that trade, I believe some Wings fans would have wanted Ken Holland's head on a silver platter!

Ditto for the other teams.

If I worked for any of those teams and approved any of those, people would have hung me!!

Click to read more...

 

[Loto68]

The thing you forget though, is that if Lindros had not been misadvised about his health, and if someone had taught him how to skate with his head up, he would have had a long and prosperous career.

 

[Valhoun*]

He was the most intimidating package of size, speed, strength, and skill of his generation. People forget just how above and beyond he was. If he stayed healthy and had a better head on his shoulders there would have been no limit to his accomplishments.

 

[ck26]

He was the most intimidating package of size, speed, strength, and skill ever.

fixed.

 

[Valhoun*]

fixed.

Yeah, I pretty much agree but wanted to keep things entirely uncontroversial.

Lindros, if he stayed healthy and continued to develop, could have led the league in scoring by 50 or 75% some seasons.

He was, by far, the most productive player to ever actually physically scare the other team. He was the teams best player and best enforcer.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Before his concussions his PPG was the 4th highest ever I believe. Despite playing some years in the lower scoring late 90s. He was also the toughest fighter and hardest hitter in the league.

 

[Kachino]

Huh, because he was the next best thing. He was like Ovechkin right now (size, speed, strength and skill).

 

[the_speedster]

Huh, because he was the next best thing. He was like Ovechkin right now (size, speed, strength and skill).

buddy, I know its all sexy to talk about ovechkin and all, but the hype that proceeded lindros in juniors, the junior and mens senior team and then the nhl is lightyears from ovy. Ovechkin's like a kindergartener compared with lindros.

There has been nothing and will be nothing like eric lindros... love him hate him, there has never been the TOTAL package, a FIVE tool player in one setting. Ovechkin's pretty nice but he has a ways to go to dominate a game like lindros did


imagine the size and double the power and skill of cam neely.... the passing of federov, the skating and hands of beliveau, the vision of perreault and the shot.... holy cow that damned shot!


I can't stand freaking johnny come lately fans who always want to overpraise the latest dish on the table without giving credit to those that preceeded him. Take away eric's concussions and there were like 3 defensemen in the league that could stop him from time to time.. and absolutely no forwards... none. The only thing that stopped eric lindros was eric lindros' bad dna

 

[canucks4ever]

People can hate lindros all they want, from 1992-93: 1999-2000, during that 8 year span he was easily a top 5-10 player. I mean i remember a time when him, jagr and forsberg were considered the 3 best players in the league.

His career ppg average is 1.18, which is amazing and that includes his last 4 ****** seasons.

 

[jiggs 10]

buddy, I know its all sexy to talk about ovechkin and all, but the hype that proceeded lindros in juniors, the junior and mens senior team and then the nhl is lightyears from ovy. Ovechkin's like a kindergartener compared with lindros.

There has been nothing and will be nothing like eric lindros... love him hate him, there has never been the TOTAL package, a FIVE tool player in one setting. Ovechkin's pretty nice but he has a ways to go to dominate a game like lindros did


imagine the size and double the power and skill of cam neely.... the passing of federov, the skating and hands of beliveau, the vision of perreault and the shot.... holy cow that damned shot!

I can't stand freaking johnny come lately fans who always want to overpraise the latest dish on the table without giving credit to those that preceeded him. Take away eric's concussions and there were like 3 defensemen in the league that could stop him from time to time.. and absolutely no forwards... none. The only thing that stopped eric lindros was eric lindros' bad dna

And I can't stand orange-colored glasses people who can't see that Lindros wasn't the next greatest thing! He was one of the top 5 players in the NHL for 3 years. Period. So what? So was Dale Hawerchuk a decade earlier! And Max Bentley 40 years earlier!

5-tools? What tools are you talking about? Lindros was a average skater, average passer, good shooter, pretty good puckhandler, bad playmaker, dirty with the stick. What tools are you thinking he had that were so great? The physical part of the game? It deterred from the rest of his game. Had he not gone out of his way to smash people, he would have lasted 10 years more in the NHL. Had he kept his head up and his stick down, maybe he would have gotten respect from other players and they would not have headhunted him in later years.

Don't you dare to compare Lindros to Beliveau in any way. Big Jean was a classy two-way superstar. Eric was a one-way baby who cried when he didn't get his way. I, personally, was glad to see his career flame out the way it did, so his place in hockey history will be diminished. I would not place him in my top 40 players ever, and not many knowledgable hockey fans would, either. I'm talking people who watched hockey before 1990., Heck, the early 1980's Isles had 5 players I would take over Lindros on their team alone (Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, Smith, Tonelli), and don't even start with the Canadiens or Oilers!

 

[xeric716x]

And I can't stand orange-colored glasses people who can't see that Lindros wasn't the next greatest thing! He was one of the top 5 players in the NHL for 3 years. Period. So what? So was Dale Hawerchuk a decade earlier! And Max Bentley 40 years earlier!

5-tools? What tools are you talking about? Lindros was a average skater, average passer, good shooter, pretty good puckhandler, bad playmaker, dirty with the stick. What tools are you thinking he had that were so great? The physical part of the game? It deterred from the rest of his game. Had he not gone out of his way to smash people, he would have lasted 10 years more in the NHL. Had he kept his head up and his stick down, maybe he would have gotten respect from other players and they would not have headhunted him in later years.

Don't you dare to compare Lindros to Beliveau in any way. Big Jean was a classy two-way superstar. Eric was a one-way baby who cried when he didn't get his way. I, personally, was glad to see his career flame out the way it did, so his place in hockey history will be diminished. I would not place him in my top 40 players ever, and not many knowledgable hockey fans would, either. I'm talking people who watched hockey before 1990., Heck, the early 1980's Isles had 5 players I would take over Lindros on their team alone (Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, Smith, Tonelli), and don't even start with the Canadiens or Oilers!

well said

 

[raleh]

buddy, I know its all sexy to talk about ovechkin and all, but the hype that proceeded lindros in juniors, the junior and mens senior team and then the nhl is lightyears from ovy. Ovechkin's like a kindergartener compared with lindros.

There has been nothing and will be nothing like eric lindros... love him hate him, there has never been the TOTAL package, a FIVE tool player in one setting. Ovechkin's pretty nice but he has a ways to go to dominate a game like lindros did


imagine the size and double the power and skill of cam neely.... the passing of federov, the skating and hands of beliveau, the vision of perreault and the shot.... holy cow that damned shot!


I can't stand freaking johnny come lately fans who always want to overpraise the latest dish on the table without giving credit to those that preceeded him. Take away eric's concussions and there were like 3 defensemen in the league that could stop him from time to time.. and absolutely no forwards... none. The only thing that stopped eric lindros was eric lindros' bad dna

I think I'm probably the biggest Lindros fan among the history board regulars, but comparing him to Beliveau is a bit of a stretch. He had good hands, more than adequate for the way he played the game, but come on...you're talking about Jean Beliveau. You're making the big E look bad by bringing Beliveau into the conversation.

 

[JCD]

Huh, because he was the next best thing. He was like Ovechkin right now (size, speed, strength and skill).

Not. Even. Close.

A better comparison would be to take the skill level of Crosby, give him Ovechkin's body and then add in Phaneuf's hitting for good measure.

Eric Lindros was Scott Stevens with Joe Sakic's talent level.

That is why everybody wanted him. Also why he was so dominant before injuries.

 

[JCD]

Lindros was a average skater, average passer, good shooter, pretty good puckhandler, bad playmaker, dirty with the stick.

Pretty clear that you never actually watched Lindros. Or have some blatent bias, because that your assessment of his skills is WAY off.

Lindros was an elite playmaker. He turned any and every linemate he had into goalscorers. Brent Fedyk was a nobody... until Lindros. Back to nobody without him. LeClair was a 3rd line grinder.... then Lindros made him into a regular 50-goal scorer. Trent Klatt? Grinder to goal scorer. Renberg? Calder nominee. Jones? Pest to scorer. Riding on Lindros wing was a sure-fire way to set career highs.

Calling him a bad playmaker is profoundly ignorant.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

And I can't stand orange-colored glasses people who can't see that Lindros wasn't the next greatest thing! He was one of the top 5 players in the NHL for 3 years. Period. So what? So was Dale Hawerchuk a decade earlier! And Max Bentley 40 years earlier!

5-tools? What tools are you talking about? Lindros was a average skater, average passer, good shooter, pretty good puckhandler, bad playmaker, dirty with the stick. What tools are you thinking he had that were so great? The physical part of the game? It deterred from the rest of his game. Had he not gone out of his way to smash people, he would have lasted 10 years more in the NHL. Had he kept his head up and his stick down, maybe he would have gotten respect from other players and they would not have headhunted him in later years.

Don't you dare to compare Lindros to Beliveau in any way. Big Jean was a classy two-way superstar. Eric was a one-way baby who cried when he didn't get his way. I, personally, was glad to see his career flame out the way it did, so his place in hockey history will be diminished. I would not place him in my top 40 players ever, and not many knowledgable hockey fans would, either. I'm talking people who watched hockey before 1990., Heck, the early 1980's Isles had 5 players I would take over Lindros on their team alone (Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, Smith, Tonelli), and don't even start with the Canadiens or Oilers!

Lindros must have been before your time because thats some of the worst pap I have ever heard on this board....and thats saying ALOT

 

[Al Bundy*]

Big Jean was a classy two-way superstar. Eric was a one-way baby who cried when he didn't get his way. I, personally, was glad to see his career flame out the way it did, so his place in hockey history will be diminished. I would not place him in my top 40 players ever, and not many knowledgable hockey fans would, either. I'm talking people who watched hockey before 1990., Heck, the early 1980's Isles had 5 players I would take over Lindros on their team alone (Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, Smith, Tonelli), and don't even start with the Canadiens or Oilers!

I have to disagree with your thought on Beliveau.

IMO, Beliveau was only great because of who he played with and where he played. He basically rode the coattails of his HOF-caliber teammates for nearly 18 years.

If he had played for the Blackhawks or Bruins of the era, he would have been out of the league in five years.

As for the Islander players you mentioned, I agree with four of them, but I think John Tonelli is the most OVERRATED player in NHL history.

 

[Analyzer*]

Eric Lindros was protrayed to be "The man" the guy who'd set all the records. Before he got all those concussions, he was basically doing that.

 

[steevy]

Had Lindros played in the wide open 80's he was an 80 goal 150 pt guy multiple times.Provided he stayed healthy of course....His skills were beyond question to those of us who saw him play.He probably would have slotted in behind Gretzky,Lemieux and Orr as one of the great modern players.(edit:I was unclear here,I meant he was in the tier below the named players...)As far as Lindros the playmaker I agree he could just as well gone 60-90 as 80-70 as he developed his game.

 

[JCD]

Had Lindros played in the wide open 80's he was an 80 goal 150 pt guy multiple times.Provided he stayed healthy of course....His skills were beyond question to those of us who saw him play.He probably would have slotted in behind Gretzky,Lemieux and Orr as one of the great modern players.

I would flip that. Lindros was an elite playmaker and more of a set-up man than a goal scorer. Not that he couldn't score goals (he had a wicked wrist shot), but his first inclination always seemed to be pass. I think he could have been a 90+ assist man if he played in the 80's and had decent linemates.

Would he have been a Mario/Wayne/Orr/Howe caliber Hall of Famer? Doubt it. But he showed that he could have been at the top-end of the tier below.

Put another way, every considered Jagr one of the definitive players of his era. Agreed. He was an offensive powerhouse and the only guy other than Wayne and Mario to win the Art Ross in decades. OK... Lindros was a neck-and-neck scorer with Jagr... and was still on the rise. Now add that scoring prowess (he peaked at something like the 4th or 5th highest scoring player in NHL history) into one of the most physically intimidating players in the league.

 

[deanosaur]

he would of dominated even longer
had he skated with his head up and didnt meet scott stevens shoulder haha

 

[golfortennis]

I think we need to clarfiy a couple of things. First of all, I think a lot of guys are using hindsight when saying Lindros wasn't worth so many players, or that he wasn't this wasn't that. It's as though they're looking at making this trade today.

Plus, I don't believe Ken Holland was ever GM while Lindros was a hot commodity.

Of course, a lot of people believe a guy who blows out his knee is a bust as well.

 

[Avy*]

Mogilny was broken already before he played his first NHL game... broken leg in second season, sore hip. Dude basically was never healthy. Selanne and his achilles, Bure played whole career on painkillers, Forsberg, Jagr. Almost all 90's stars have less or more injure-plagued careers... but of course Lindros is victim of injures.

 

[golfortennis]

Mogilny was broken already before he played his first NHL game... broken leg in second season, sore hip. Dude basically was never healthy. Selanne and his achilles, Bure played whole career on painkillers, Forsberg, Jagr. Almost all 90's stars have less or more injure-plagued careers... but of course Lindros is victim of injures.

First of all, remember that before either played in the NHL, Forsberg was part of the package for Lindros. All those guys you mentioned, never had big trade offers made for them on the scale of Lindros, nor did they have the expectations that Lindros had.

Also, there's the hindsight issue. A lot of posters here are sitting here in 2008 sying "what the hell were teams thinking in 1992 making thse offers?". Because everyone knew that Lindros would, after 4 years of being arguaby the NHL's best player, have concussions at a rate that very few players in the NHL would have. Everyone knew that he would have problems with the Flyers medical staff and front office. Well everyone except those stupid GMs.

As well, don't underestimate the lingering resentment of Lindros for not realizing that hockey players, unlike 99% of all lines of work, are not allowed to choose their employer.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I have to disagree with your thought on Beliveau.

IMO, Beliveau was only great because of who he played with and where he played. He basically rode the coattails of his HOF-caliber teammates for nearly 18 years.

If he had played for the Blackhawks or Bruins of the era, he would have been out of the league in five years.

As for the Islander players you mentioned, I agree with four of them, but I think John Tonelli is the most OVERRATED player in NHL history.

And I thought your assessment of Brad Park was embarassing...

 

[God Bless Canada]

I don't know if there's a player in NHL history with so much hyperbole, and so many misconceptions, than Lindros. From both sides of the scale.

He was the first Next One. The guy who was supposed to be the game's next all-time great. A lot of similarities in terms of ability to Messier. Had that great power skating, the elite skill level, the strength and the cockiness that Messier had. Didn't have Messier big-game mentality or leadership, but he was bigger than Messier, and seemed to be more of a natural than Messier.

Once it became clear that Lindros wouldn't play in Quebec, the trade rumours became circus-like. I didn't really put a lot of stock into the rumours - I don't think Detroit was going to trade Fedorov. The Belfour rumours ceased once Belfour signed a new contract in Chicago. There was talk at one point that Lindros wouldn't play in Canada, unless it was Toronto, so there wasn't much validity to the Calgary rumour.

Hasn't been mentioned yet, and it's surprising that so many have forgotten it: 15 minutes after Lindros was traded to Philly, he was traded to the Rangers. Better package, everyone said at the time - Kovalev, Weight, Amonte (latter two were coming off outstanding rookie years), Vanbiesbrouck, three first round picks, $12 million and some other stuff. (Nobody thought in 1992 that Forsberg would be THAT good). Philly got Lindros for one reason: a handshake between Philly and Quebec. That constituted the deal.

The funny thing is, even in 1992, people were panning the trade from Philly's perspective. Gave up too much: Hextall, Huffman, Duchesne, Ricci, the money, the picks, and that Forsberg guy. People were high on Forsberg in 1992, some were really high on him. But it wasn't until the next season that the Forsberg hype machine was out in full force, and the whispers began that Forsberg might one day be better than Lindros. (At the time of the trade, Ricci was viewed as the centrepiece of the return). Philly gave up too much, they said, and they were right. But it didn't matter to Philly - they got their guy. Quebec was a team on the rise after 1991-92, thanks to five years of mediocrity, but the return for Lindros put them over the top.