Why the rush....

[Miri]

I have been reading the transfer rumors part of board recently, given all the montreal /parenteau/subban etc... stuff and was honestly astonished how many of Avs fans over here would be so quick to get rid of not only Parenteau himself, but the likes of McGinn, Stastny or ROR as well... just to boost the infamous Avs defence somehow...

Now i do understand that we may need better defensmen in the future to be a true contender....the question is, do we need them already now and do we need to give-up something from our line-up in the process? Apparently Parenteau does not "fit" anymore, when i saw that, i thought WTF? Just because Roy let him sit for 2 games as he did not want to break the winning formula he is now surplus to requirement? Was he not a point leader of this team just last season?

Seriously, the one thing going for Avs bar the fantastic goaltending is their deep offense. The ability to roll 3 scoring lines is currently our biggest strength IMHO. Because of that offense at the start of the season i was fairly sure this season will be completely different to the last one, even though many of the people on these boards were guessing the Avs to finish sixth or seventh in the Central division - just check the all threads from the August/September.

And right now people are ready to give up on that. Maybe you dont understand its exactly the guys like Parenteau or McGinn, who make our offense what it is, that if you give them away for defense, that it wont be that deep anymore and boom, the one advantage we have, gone? Or do we have some ready-made replacement at Lake Erie, like Detroit had with the likes of Tatar or Nyquist?

Its pointless to have 3 great centers, if you dont have adequately skilled wingers to play with them... We already lost Downie, now get rid of Parenteau and goodbye 3 scoring lines system. And for what, solid second pairing guy, who we most likely can get via free agency in the summer anyway?

So i ask the only thing, please, be patient, dont overreact. We do not need to trade our goods ASAP away, if there is a chance we might get what we need without doing that. If we wanted, we could already have Andrew Ference or Andrej Sekera last off-season, would they not be quality upgrade on what what we have? And either one probably without losing a single one of our attackers, might i add....

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[henchman21]

We really haven't been rolling 3 lines since Tangs got hurt, and were doing really well with just 2. Couple other parts of that are Roy is seemingly preferential to a traditional top 6/bottom 6 setup, and rumblings of PAP being unhappy with his role. So if you have to give up PAP, and want a more traditional setup... why not go for a middle pairing defender?

 

[hockeyfish]

I don't see any Avs fans who are rushing to trade ROR or Stastny, and even McGinn.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I pretty much agree that waiting is the best bet unless a great deal comes along. I see the logic behind how PA is probably the most expendable piece should that great offer come along. He doesn't fit the system well and people think we can get another cheap winger in FA. I think a lot of it has to do with people not wanting us to get embarassed in the playoffs. They want to get an old vet here and hope he signs as a UFA or trade to get someone on a bad contract that can fill a hole. There is nothing in Lake Erie that can even remotely help. The best prospects there are 20 or the ones still in junior who will be in LE in the next year or two. They might become viable options at some point but not now at all.

 

[Avs For Life]

I don't see any Avs fans who are rushing to trade ROR or Stastny, and even McGinn.

All 3 should be Avs next year IMO.

 

[bohlmeister]

A week into the playoffs and you will see why we are in a rush.

This defense is not NHL caliber. PAP has not fit into Roy's system and IMO is expendable. And PAP is not happy playing on the 3rd line.

Most do not want to trade McGinn. He has shown great chemistry with ROR and Duchene.

Nobody wants to trade any of our centers, but the players need to want to be here as well. Stastny can walk at the end of the season, and if he doesn't want to sign here for fear that he will end up being a 3rd liner, we need to make the most of the asset.

The team has done remarkable, but Holden, Guenin, Benoit are not going to raise their level of play come playoff time. We will be done quickly if we do not improve the defense.

 

[Foppa]

I agree there is no rush but let's all face reality...at some point management will need to pull the trigger on a deal or two that is going to involve core players we love to balance out the roster. It's happened many times in the past. Sometimes it works, although it hurts...like giving up Deader in the deal for Blake. Sometimes is just flat-out hurts like dealing Drury.

Just prepare for your heart strings to get tugged a little sometime in the next couple of seasons because it will happen in the name of getting this team to a Cup level.

 

[MvpKinnon]

That PAP type of deal I can allow but nothing big at the trade deadline. I want to see how far this group can go

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

How is that rushing? If anything, they've been pretty patient this whole year with the defense.

 

[Pokecheque]

The only thing we were is a rush to do is hope and pray the 2012-2013 season would end. Thank the Hockey Gods it was only 48 games.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The only Avs player that we as a fan base seem willing to give up is Paranteau.

Look closer at the trade board threads. 95% of them involving ROR/Stastny/McGinn are made by fans of other teams asking for those guys.

Were willing to move PAP because he's a valuable piece that doesn't really fit on the Avs team. When were healthy there isn't a spot in the Top 6 for him, and Roy doesn't trust him to play a bottom 6 defensive role.

So PAP logically is an available piece from the Avs that can be traded to return a Dman that will help us.


Its not being impatient at all, and most if not all of us Avs fans would much rather see ROR, Stastny, and McGinn all signed to new contracts this offseason.

 

[Coloradorov]

The vast majority of avs fans thought the boys would barely squeak into a playoff spot, if even at all. This is a season to gel the core, work on new systems with our new staff, and develop our youngsters. I think the season will be a success even with a first round exit. Roy is aware they need defensive upgrades but is unwilling to make the wrong deal.

Imo, stay the course and explore off-season options. The price and assets we have to use for defensive help will be more evident once staz and ror shake out their contract talks. We are only beginning to see the door opening for this team to make playoff runs on a yearly basis.

 

[JoemAvs]

A week into the playoffs and you will see why we are in a rush.

This defense is not NHL caliber. PAP has not fit into Roy's system and IMO is expendable. And PAP is not happy playing on the 3rd line.

Most do not want to trade McGinn. He has shown great chemistry with ROR and Duchene.

Nobody wants to trade any of our centers, but the players need to want to be here as well. Stastny can walk at the end of the season, and if he doesn't want to sign here for fear that he will end up being a 3rd liner, we need to make the most of the asset.

The team has done remarkable, but Holden, Guenin, Benoit are not going to raise their level of play come playoff time. We will be done quickly if we do not improve the defense.

And what do we trade away for Chara and Weber.... ???

I tell you what.
I will be very happy if we get embarassed in the first round of the playoffs. Because that means that we have had one of the most remarkable turnarounds in NHL history. From picking #1 to playoffs in only one season.

It looks very good right now. We should make it if we don't completely fall apart.

I do not see how anyone can expect us to beat STL or CHI in the first round. Those two are arguably the two best teams in hockey.

Should we really throw away valuable pieces just for the pleasure of losing in 6 games and not in 5?


I am not saying that a trade does not make sense. It very well could be. But we have to be smart.

Trading young for old (30+) with MacKinnon being 18 is not smart.

Trading for rentals that will either leave us or get overpaid in the offseason is not smart.

Trading just for the sake of trading is not smart.

Trading just because you think that we are going to be embarassed in the first round this year and not considering the future is not smart.

Smart is keeping our options open. If a good deal for PAP presents itself than do it. If we can not get a potential longterm piece like Despres or (dreaming) Kulikov for him than we should gladly keep him around.

Smart is having an answer to the question of what to do with Stastny at the deadline.

Smart is not upsetting the great team chemistry we have now (that is why I would not deal McGinn).

Smart is sitting back and enjoying this great season while realizing that we are far off from a serious contender and that we probably will not be as good next year (young teams and especially the Avs are up and down and we are depending on Varly too much this year).

Smart is taking the longterm approach and giving us a chance at a contending window of at least 8-10 years that will probably open up in 2016.

 

[Avs]

PAP - yes.

ROR, Stastny, McGinn- no.

 

[Freudian]

No team is intact ever. Compare the cup winning teams Avs had. Even if there were only five years between them the only players there for both cups were Roy, Sakic, Forsberg, Foote, Klemm and Yelle.

Teams can get stale with the same group year in and year out so change isn't something to be feared. The cap era has changed this a bit, so there is more focus on locking up talent through their primes so I would expect Avs trying to keep the core (Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, MacKinnon, EJ and Varlamov) together. Stastny exists in a twilight zone until his and Avs intentions become clearer but he certainly could be a core player too.

This leaves players like Mitchell, McGinn, Parenteau, prospects and picks as usable assets to address team needs. I don't particularly want to trade them for the sake of trading them, but if a trade makes sense and they have to be included I have no problem with them going.

I liked both Stewart and Shattenkirk. I liked Downie. I still hope they do well but have no problems with them being involved in trades. That's how the league works.

 

[bohlmeister]

And what do we trade away for Chara and Weber.... ???

I tell you what.
I will be very happy if we get embarassed in the first round of the playoffs. Because that means that we have had one of the most remarkable turnarounds in NHL history. From picking #1 to playoffs in only one season.

It looks very good right now. We should make it if we don't completely fall apart.

I do not see how anyone can expect us to beat STL or CHI in the first round. Those two are arguably the two best teams in hockey.

Should we really throw away valuable pieces just for the pleasure of losing in 6 games and not in 5?


I am not saying that a trade does not make sense. It very well could be. But we have to be smart.

Trading young for old (30+) with MacKinnon being 18 is not smart.

Trading for rentals that will either leave us or get overpaid in the offseason is not smart.

Trading just for the sake of trading is not smart.

Trading just because you think that we are going to be embarassed in the first round this year and not considering the future is not smart.

Smart is keeping our options open. If a good deal for PAP presents itself than do it. If we can not get a potential longterm piece like Despres or (dreaming) Kulikov for him than we should gladly keep him around.

Smart is having an answer to the question of what to do with Stastny at the deadline.

Smart is not upsetting the great team chemistry we have now (that is why I would not deal McGinn).

Smart is sitting back and enjoying this great season while realizing that we are far off from a serious contender and that we probably will not be as good next year (young teams and especially the Avs are up and down and we are depending on Varly too much this year).

Smart is taking the longterm approach and giving us a chance at a contending window of at least 8-10 years that will probably open up in 2016.

You know that Patrick Roy is our team leader, right? If you think he is going to be satisfied with just making it to the playoffs, I think you are incorrect. You will be happy if we get embarassed in the first round, what? I don't know why you are talking about Chara or Weber.

Nobody wants to make a trade for the sake of a trade. You have to give to get, but obviously we don't want to sell the farm to build our team for a single season. When we do trade for a defender it is going to be for someone who will help us long term.

 

[forsbergavs32]

You know that Patrick Roy is our team leader, right? If you think he is going to be satisfied with just making it to the playoffs, I think you are incorrect. You will be happy if we get embarassed in the first round, what? I don't know why you are talking about Chara or Weber.

Nobody wants to make a trade for the sake of a trade. You have to give to get, but obviously we don't want to sell the farm to build our team for a single season. When we do trade for a defender it is going to be for someone who will help us long term.

exactly what I was thinking. I'll trust Roy to make the right move that's gonna help us this season and for the next few seasons. I'll be fine with him moving PAP or even Staz (if he can't be extended before the deadline) to get us a top 4 D-man because with just EJ, Hejda and Barrie as our legit NHL top 4 D-men, we'll get destroyed in the playoffs having to ice Guenin, Holden, Wilson and Sarich.

 

[tigervixxxen]

No, Roy isn't going to just resign to getting destroyed in the playoffs but I trust that short term desires is tempered with the plan that benefits the future. We don't have many movable assets, offensive depth on the NHL team is about all we have and part of that is due to no (knock on wood) long term injuries. And there absolutely are people who want to see a trade made just to feel like some improvement was attempted regardless if improvement is actually achieved or what it does to the long term makeup of the team.

 

[Miri]

No team is intact ever. Compare the cup winning teams Avs had. Even if there were only five years between them the only players there for both cups were Roy, Sakic, Forsberg, Foote, Klemm and Yelle.

Teams can get stale with the same group year in and year out so change isn't something to be feared. The cap era has changed this a bit, so there is more focus on locking up talent through their primes so I would expect Avs trying to keep the core (Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, MacKinnon, EJ and Varlamov) together. Stastny exists in a twilight zone until his and Avs intentions become clearer but he certainly could be a core player too.

This leaves players like Mitchell, McGinn, Parenteau, prospects and picks as usable assets to address team needs. I don't particularly want to trade them for the sake of trading them, but if a trade makes sense and they have to be included I have no problem with them going.


I liked both Stewart and Shattenkirk. I liked Downie. I still hope they do well but have no problems with them being involved in trades. That's how the league works.

This is true, but are you under impression we are getting stale now, therefore we need to trade PAP before the deadline?

The other thing, when you talk about PAP, Mitchell, PAP, prospects as usable assets to address team needs - my point is, we dont NEED to give these assets now, because we may still possibly address our needs via free agency. With the cap going up again next season (up to 71 millions i think) i believe we may be able not only do that, but keep ROR and SOS as well... only if this turns up not to be true, only then we should be looking at other options like trades.

Anyway, some people clearly dont want to wait - and are ready to dump PAP literally for anyone. In the PAP to Montreal thread, i have seen people (not Montreal fans) positively reacting to Bourque/PAP exchange, as long as the Andrighetto guy was rumored to be part of it. And i could not understand that, seriously? Clearly Bourque would be an downgrade from PAP and Andrighetto would most likely go straight to LEM - how would such trade improve this team at all?

Last thing, i have read all the answers to this thread (thanks for your responses to you all) and majority of people said they are ready to lose Parenteau, but not McGinn. I say, you would have said exact opposite last year and if McGinn went into hitting posts again now, while PAP improved somewhat, swapping their positions on line-up as the result, i would love to see, whether this statement would still hold true.

 

[Sheet]

I've said a couple times I'd rather not get rid of a piece right now. We're winning with our trash defense. Does that still happen if we ship off Pap, Stas, or any real piece? Probably, and we probably get better, but who knows if it's a glass house that crumbles when a piece moves?

I'd rather pick up something in the FA market. I havent scoped it out. I dont know if theres anything worth having there, but with Roy coaching and a good season behind us, we just became a lot more sexy for FA's to sign with.

I'd rather not ruin a good thing with a panic move. We're not contending this year, so why trade? If we mostly know as a fan base we're a first round exit on the playoffs, I'm sure MGMT does too. Suffer through the D, and maybe pick up an FA, or make a trade next season when some of our boys stock is higher....

Just my $0.02.

 

[Averick*]

This is a weird one. I enjoy reading the empassioned arguments on both sides. People are making good points. I don't have a strong opinion about this. Part of me really liked the organic feel of the teams core group of players. I also like that they're very young and very talented. So trading guys who are going to walk for prospects appeals to me. The teams core is young so it makes sense. If they hit on some of the prospects, it extends our window.

But then I think about how this team has performed this year, I think that the team could possibly make some noise in the playoffs this year. It's conceivable that there could be some upsets in other series which would lead to a scenario where Colorado only needs to win one series that it shouldn't. Upsets happen. Are argument can be made that management shouldn't shortchange this years team by not bringing in a good defender and a vet to also, perhaps, mentor a young core and accelerate their progress.