News Article: Why the best defencemen have to be proficient on offence

[Jame]

If Polak isn't capable of making that reversal pass then he doesn't belong in the NHL.

You were responding to Chains comment about his speed, and agreeing that he's probably too slow... and then stated that you'd like to at least see him try.

The context was entirely option 1.

Reversing with a backhand pass off the boards in pic #2 leaves very little chance of a turnover. It's also close to a 100% chance of keeping possession since his partner didn't go to change yet. He went to change after the chip out. But clearly in pic #2 he was in a support position for his partner. Perfectly ready to receive that reversal pass had it been made.

Agree to disagree. Is that Anze Kopitar forechecking?

This play happens multple times a game. If his partner got the pass he would have waited behind the net for the forwards to finish changing. They keep possession and go from there.

You inherently get it.

Would Kopitar exit the zone, and allow the change? Or would he pressure the puck while San Jose forwards go for a change?

 

[Woodhouse]

FTR, that's Brown, not Kopitar, and specifically Pearson-Lecavalier-Brown forty seconds after LAK won a d-zone draw.

 

[Jame]

FTR, that's Brown, not Kopitar, and specifically Pearson-Lecavalier-Brown forty seconds after LAK won a d-zone draw.

Yea, that line is fast, chip out was smart

 

[sabrebuild]

Because his team was on a change and Polak didn't have the passing options Filipovic pretended there was.

Honestly, this exercise vastly overstates the importance of possession relative to in-zone defensive abilities in the playoffs. Roman Polak, for all his deficiencies leaving the zone, has been on the ice for a much lower rate of goals against than Brian Campbell, even just relative to other defensemen on each team.

When you have zero possession driving from your blueline like the Rangers do, sure, you pine for the fjords of Keith Yandle because your stay at home guys are reducing neither shots nor goals. But if you can get guys whose presence vastly reduces goal-based events regardless of shot counts - and those people exist for 2-4 year spans regardless of what possession-only nerds tell you - you prefer those to possession drivers who introduce additional goal-based-variance.

Totally disagree about the options polak had there. He absolutely could have reversed for an easy play and keep possession.

 

[Chainshot]

Clearly I see the forechecker coming at Polack and, in the same position, would be thinking "*gasp**gasp* GET IT OUT!! *gasp*" before going for the chip. But that's me.

 

[lindholmie]

I'd love to see the regular season numbers in this area.

Ive posted them before to defend Fowler

Fowler is underrated. Advanced stats kinda suck outside of baseball. They rely on teammates too much. These stats are fine since they are individual. People always say Fowler turns it over in the D zone but he has the lowest DZ turnover rate.

 

[Heraldic]

There are some big issues there IMO.

The stats don't really take into account the really different situations a d-man is exiting the zone. For example these two situations differ HUGELY: 1) Your team regains the possession down-low, the player getting the puck breaks the pressure by successfully passing it to the other side of the rink to a open d-man who can start the rush with plenty of time and space and 2) a d-man breaks the possession himself, battles his way out of the corner to the center ice and starts a quick rush by dishing the puck to a open forward and supports the rush himself.

The latter situation is FAR MORE demanding, and it usually gives your team a good scoring chance by generating an odd man rush (because usually there are only two defenders at max). The first situation is a lot more easier, and usually the player with more puck skills is the player who is the guy who starts the rush in that situation (because you got enough time to get the guys on their proper places).. I think this, partly, explains the difference between Josi and Weber regarding those stats. The problem with the first situation is that even though you get out of your own zone far more easier, you usually face an organized unit, and generating a quality scoring chance is difficult.

Cody Franson is extremely good at clearing the zone in former situations (outside of occasional grenades), but he is really bad in latter situations.

And what comes to the Polak situation. I do believe that most coaches instruct certain players to play in a certain way. For example I think DeBoer prefers Polak doing what he did despite his team losing the possession. In general your team mates should have a pretty clear idea what a certain player is going to do with the puck. For example in the Polak situation teammates have to know that is he going to just clear the zone or play it to his teammates by making a reversal pass. The game is so fast that you simply cannot wait and see - you have to know in advance.

***

And I agree with the poster who said that breaking the opponent's possession is almost equally important here (and how you break it matters in what kind of situation you start the rush as a defenseman). Players like Pysyk and Fowler are not exactly good players breaking the possession down-low/corner, but they're good players when the team gets the puck. And the importance of being able to break the possession is perhaps the biggest reason why we should be patient with Bogosian. When he is on, he can alone break possession by just bulldozing even the bigger forwards in the corner. In the playoffs, when more and more plays are played down-low and in the corner, the value of a skill like that is extremely high.

 

[joshjull]

You were responding to Chains comment about his speed, and agreeing that he's probably too slow... and then stated that you'd like to at least see him try.

The context was entirely option 1.

The point wasn't that he should at least try. The point was he clearly had made up his mind what to do as evidenced by him pulling up and stopping as he chipped it out. Options #1 and #2 were never on his mind.

Agree to disagree. Is that Anze Kopitar forechecking?

You inherently get it.

Would Kopitar exit the zone, and allow the change? Or would he pressure the puck while San Jose forwards go for a change?

You inherently don't get it.

Yes if his partner gets it, as in if its passed to him. Not will the pass be able to get to him. Once its passed to him he will have possession while waiting for his team to change. No one would be pressuring him since the Kings were changing as well.

You're not getting the situation thats unfolding. BOTH teams are changing. The other Kings forwards had already started leaving the zone to change when Polak had the puck in pic#1. One was already out of the zone and isn't in pictures #1 or #2. It was the end of the shift for both teams. To state the obvious, Polak would know this.

Its was Brown not Kopitar as Woodhouse pointed out. Not that it would change anything. Brown was providing token pressure on his way out of the zone while his own line mates were changing. If in pic #2 Polak had turned his back to the forechecker to make a reverse backhand pass along the boards to his partner (a play that occurs multiple times a game). As opposed to what he did by pulling up to chip it out. There is almost no chance Brown can pick off the pass with where he is in pic #2. How is Brown going to intercept a backhand pass with (1) the dman shielding the puck, (2) he is also slightly ahead of Polak (pic #2) and (3) heading in the opposite direction out of the zone to change?


As an aside, I have no idea why you think that forechecker was in a position to allow of not allow the Sharks to change. They already were. No matter how aggressively he forechecked that wasn't going to change.


This is about situational awareness. Polak clearly knew both teams were changing cause he could see it happening and knew both were at the tail end of a shift. He could have easily reversed to his partner who was in perfect position to support that play. Then the Sharks can change with possession instead of throwing it away. Maybe he was tired and just wanted to get it out but the smarter play was to reverse to his partner and change himself.

 

[joshjull]

Polak has already made the exact backhand reverse pass I'm talking about twice tonight. In situations more dangerous than the one discussed in this thread. So I guess it's in his skill set and something drilled into him since he didn't even look when making it. He just saw/felt pressure and made it knowing his partner was supporting him.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

This is the skill that Pysyk gets so much love for by Sabres fans but mysteriously he ends up with a low number of assists, and yes part of that is how bad offensively the Sabres have been during his time but his assist count in the AHL wasn't great either. Has to mean he's just god awful in the offensive zone.

Those stats are interesting but it's just one aspect of a dman's game, theoretically you could have a dman that leads the NHL in breakout % but he's weak and loses puck battles, poor shot blocker, poor positionaly, bad decisions deep in the d-zone