Why Ryan Murray Is Expendable
- Thread starter The Press Express
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EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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Based on the thread headline I figured it was because he was young and in shape and most of us over the years do expand. 
However in looking at the link it is expendable so until I read it Ill
withhold further comments.
Of course when I clicked on the link the article says Expandable. See point 1 above.
However in looking at the link it is expendable so until I read it Ill
withhold further comments.
Of course when I clicked on the link the article says Expandable. See point 1 above.
Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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Nice post.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with letting Murray earn his way to playing time. He's only played 70 games over the past two seasons and will turn 20 just before the season begins. A year in the AHL might be very appropriate for him given his injury/lack of play/youth.
Murray is also not the #2 overall draft pick of the current management. They are not under the implied pressure of "proving" that they chose the "right player". Instead, they have the latitude to slot him in the system where he really belongs. Where that is, I have no idea, though I'd like to think that he'll bring more to the table ultimately than Erixon, Prout, Savard, Goloubef and Wiz.
The change in management also allows for the same evaluation of #4 overall pick Johansen. A dispassionate development and evaluation strategy should be used for both. If the minors is where each belongs, then there they should be. If they can be traded for roster improvements, then so be it. I would think that the 2 first rounders for Murray from Tampa would probably be considered a bit too steep given his relatively inactivity these past two seasons.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with letting Murray earn his way to playing time. He's only played 70 games over the past two seasons and will turn 20 just before the season begins. A year in the AHL might be very appropriate for him given his injury/lack of play/youth.
Murray is also not the #2 overall draft pick of the current management. They are not under the implied pressure of "proving" that they chose the "right player". Instead, they have the latitude to slot him in the system where he really belongs. Where that is, I have no idea, though I'd like to think that he'll bring more to the table ultimately than Erixon, Prout, Savard, Goloubef and Wiz.
The change in management also allows for the same evaluation of #4 overall pick Johansen. A dispassionate development and evaluation strategy should be used for both. If the minors is where each belongs, then there they should be. If they can be traded for roster improvements, then so be it. I would think that the 2 first rounders for Murray from Tampa would probably be considered a bit too steep given his relatively inactivity these past two seasons.
Sorry, CBJ AtW, but Murray is not a "great player stuck in a bad situation," he's a young player who has not seen the ice in almost a year and has never played a professional game. Murray should, as you suggest, start the season in Springfield, acclimate himself to the pro game, and await call-up to Columbus. If he's not ready or not needed, this season? Nothing wrong with a young defenseman spending a full year in the AHL, it happens all the time. At last, the CBJ has enough talent to let guys play where they belong - not where they were drafted, not where they're needed, not where we imagine they should be, but where their development indicates they belong!
And let's hope he doesn't expand too much on the way to Columbus!
And let's hope he doesn't expand too much on the way to Columbus!
EspenK
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SuperGenius
For Duty & Humanity!
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Gotta agree with Pete and others. There's some mighty silly logic in thinking an organizational strength is a bad thing for either the organization or the kid. Maybe this topic makes more sense if he were in the org 5 years and languishing but he's a 2012 pick coming off his last year in junior (an injury year) who has never played a pro game at any level in his career.
I have serious issues with the concept that 'Murray will Rot (sic) in the system for another full season' First, he hasn't been in the system for one full season yet, so this notion of it being 'another..' is hogwash. Further, please explain why it would be 'rotting' and not 'developing'. the term rot would be better applied to a Murray as 7th dman stuck in the press box. As luck would have it, he can play big minutes against grown men for the first time and learn his game as a pro.
Good god, man, a dearth of D men doesn't make the best prospect among them expendable, it makes the worst prospect among them or older or more expensive pros expendable. Talent will find a way - when the kid is ready to play at the NHL level, they will make room for him. You just could not possibly be more wrong here, IMO.
PS:
unsolicited advice: get an editor so that things like random Capitalized words and "Expandable" are caught before publishing - it will really help your credibility
I have serious issues with the concept that 'Murray will Rot (sic) in the system for another full season' First, he hasn't been in the system for one full season yet, so this notion of it being 'another..' is hogwash. Further, please explain why it would be 'rotting' and not 'developing'. the term rot would be better applied to a Murray as 7th dman stuck in the press box. As luck would have it, he can play big minutes against grown men for the first time and learn his game as a pro.
Good god, man, a dearth of D men doesn't make the best prospect among them expendable, it makes the worst prospect among them or older or more expensive pros expendable. Talent will find a way - when the kid is ready to play at the NHL level, they will make room for him. You just could not possibly be more wrong here, IMO.
PS:
unsolicited advice: get an editor so that things like random Capitalized words and "Expandable" are caught before publishing - it will really help your credibility
gojacketsgo61
Fire the Refs!
- Apr 27, 2009
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I don't think Murray is expendable at all to be honest. Yes, CBJ has a log jam of defense. However, what if Nikitin gets traded (Probably the most likely to be traded from the top 6)? What if CBJ suffers an injury and Murray is the most ready to step in? What if CBJ suffers multiple defensive injuries, forcing Murray to step in?
Murray will probably not be a top 6 defender on the team come opening day. This is not a bad thing however. Murray will probably still be a bit rusty from being away from competitive hockey for nearly a year. Putting him in the AHL, where he can get top minutes and become more ready physically and mentally is the best decision. Rushing Murray just because he was the "#2 guy" and we want him now is only going to hurt Murray and CBJ. I don't know about you guys, but I'm tired of CBJ rushing or mishandling prospects to the point of CBJ having to trade them away to salvage something.
If Murray has to spend the entire year in the AHL to properly develop, that is fine. Even if Murray somehow spent three years in the AHL before he became a top defender for CBJ, I would be happy. Defensive prospects take longer to develop. Their bodies may not be physically ready and they may be asked to step up in a top role to shut down the elite offensive threats such as Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos and crew. That is a difficult job for a veteran defender, let alone a rookie.
Good post but I'm just stating my counter-opinion to it. Also, I would make a joke about Murray expanding but there just is no room.
Murray will probably not be a top 6 defender on the team come opening day. This is not a bad thing however. Murray will probably still be a bit rusty from being away from competitive hockey for nearly a year. Putting him in the AHL, where he can get top minutes and become more ready physically and mentally is the best decision. Rushing Murray just because he was the "#2 guy" and we want him now is only going to hurt Murray and CBJ. I don't know about you guys, but I'm tired of CBJ rushing or mishandling prospects to the point of CBJ having to trade them away to salvage something.
If Murray has to spend the entire year in the AHL to properly develop, that is fine. Even if Murray somehow spent three years in the AHL before he became a top defender for CBJ, I would be happy. Defensive prospects take longer to develop. Their bodies may not be physically ready and they may be asked to step up in a top role to shut down the elite offensive threats such as Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos and crew. That is a difficult job for a veteran defender, let alone a rookie.
Good post but I'm just stating my counter-opinion to it. Also, I would make a joke about Murray expanding but there just is no room.
The Press Express
Registered User
So can you give me your prediction of Murray's path to the Pros?
PS. I know! Its my first write up for the Jackets and ill admit my skills in Journalism are extremely Rusty! But theres only one way to get better! For those of you that have posted I really appreciate the criticism! Its the only way I will become a stronger writer. Also I have contacted a few guys from this forum to join the Jackets writing team on HF Loungers. So don't be surprised if a few of your peers are Greenifyed in the coming days!
The Press Express
Registered User
But can you guys agree that a trade needs to be done? theres not enough room for everyone to fit!
FANonymous
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- Nov 7, 2010
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Is that really a worse situation than slotting a rookie in the starting lineup who hasn't played a pro game yet and hasn't played for nearly a year due to injury? If we were to trade him I doubt we would get adequate value back.
EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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I don't think a trades needs to be done. Having good depth at D could however lead to opportunities to make the team better through trades.
Big difference.
Expendable??? You've go to be (expletive deleted) kidding me .
This fan site has bemoaned the fact that the team has never been "up at the top" of the draft. "Not good enough to make the playoffs, but too good for a top pick", Well they finally stunk enough to get a top two pick, they draft a prototypical #1 defenseman and now the discussion is he's expendable without playing a single minute in Union Blue.
Yes, the D is a strength of the team but come on lets not kid ourselves, while it's a good defense, it's not a great defense and it won't be without someone exactly like Murray is projected to be. Prout, Erixon, Melart, Savard, and Goloubef have a TOTAL of 74 NHL games between all of them combined. While there is great potential and a quantity of depth, it's not exactly seasoned. And none of them have anything even remotely close to Murray's top end.
There seems to be some overall consensus that he should start in SPR. Don't believe it's going to happen. Too much talent, and not enough in front of him to keep him out.
I do expect that IF the blue line gets through camp and exhibition games healthy there will be some movement.
It's just not going to be Murray.
This fan site has bemoaned the fact that the team has never been "up at the top" of the draft. "Not good enough to make the playoffs, but too good for a top pick", Well they finally stunk enough to get a top two pick, they draft a prototypical #1 defenseman and now the discussion is he's expendable without playing a single minute in Union Blue.
Yes, the D is a strength of the team but come on lets not kid ourselves, while it's a good defense, it's not a great defense and it won't be without someone exactly like Murray is projected to be. Prout, Erixon, Melart, Savard, and Goloubef have a TOTAL of 74 NHL games between all of them combined. While there is great potential and a quantity of depth, it's not exactly seasoned. And none of them have anything even remotely close to Murray's top end.
There seems to be some overall consensus that he should start in SPR. Don't believe it's going to happen. Too much talent, and not enough in front of him to keep him out.
I do expect that IF the blue line gets through camp and exhibition games healthy there will be some movement.
It's just not going to be Murray.
I think once Murray is ready, a trade of Nikitin would greatly improve the defense if Murray were to take his spot.
However, what I think will probably happen is that Wiz will go down at some point during the year, at which Goloubef comes up. The next call up would be Murray, no question. And I think that as with Erixon, once he's up here, he's here to stay.
However, what I think will probably happen is that Wiz will go down at some point during the year, at which Goloubef comes up. The next call up would be Murray, no question. And I think that as with Erixon, once he's up here, he's here to stay.
The Press Express
Registered User
Hello Johnny
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Needs to be done? Absolutely not. Possible if the right player is coming back? Most certainly, but I doubt that "right player" will be coming to Columbus anytime soon.
Murray has the highest ceiling of any defenseman we have, and we have the luxury of letting him become 100% ready to see NHL action when we need him. Can we develop a prospect with diligence for once? I don't mean anything offensive, as I know the CBJ gets a not-quite-deserved rep for "rushing" prospects. I just mean we can afford to be patient if we need to, why not take the opportunity?
BTW, I couldn't access the page linked.
The Press Express
Registered User
The is really not a trade to be made. Nobody on our defense would net us a meaningful upgrade at forward that I'd be willing to trade. No Johnson, Tyutin, or Murray means no reason to even mess with our depth. Nikitin isn't going to net us something that would be an upgrade at forward, likewise with Prout, Erixon, Cody, etc. I love our depth back there and unless we are packaging a guy like Erixon or Nikitin with one of our top 6/9 forwards for an upgrade on the 1st/2nd line I don't see a reason to mess with the depth.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
I just can't agree with your position at all. Players like Crosby, Stamkos etc. that can contribute right away are extremely rare. Even more rare are defensemen that are truly ready when drafted.
In recent years highly regarded blue liners like Hedman and Myers were rushed to the NHL and it looks like their careers have been damaged. Why did you pick Tampa as a trade partner to give up 2 first round picks for Murray? Because they desperately need a top pairing defender, really two. Hmmm...but Hedmanwas drafted in the exact same spot as Murray and some called him a franchise blueliner at the time. Now? Not so much.
If the CBJ want to play a grinding aggressive style, then it's important to build tremendous depth on the backend. I can only hope they can have the kind of depth Nashville has back there. They lost Hamhuis and easily replaced him. Then they lost Suter and replaced him rather easily as well.
The Jackets need to stock their system top to bottom. Teams often need as many as 10-11 defenseman to get them through the season, especially the playoffs. Not to put words in your mouth but it looks as if you're saying they won't need that depth. Ask Philadelphia what happens when your great blueline gets decimated. They went from one of the best defensive groups in the NHL to a terrible one in 4-5 injuries. Hell ask Vancouver, the year they made the Finals, they iced 12 defensemen in the playoffs.
On the other hand, lets look at teams that have not built great depth on defense, but instead done it offense- Edmonton? 4 franchise forwards and no playoffs...the aforementioned Tampa Bay Lightning. Washington, Carolina. Is that what you want for your favorite team? Lots of firepower and no shot to win a Cup?
Worrying about Murray's immediate future reminds my of a time I was listening to Bob McKenzie on Montreal radio talking about a Red Wings 1st round pick. He said, "Well, it's his third year in the system, so he'll get five games in the NHL." By the Red Wings standard, Murray wouldn't play in the NHL at all this season, but he would play 5 whole games in 2014-15.
That's what happens when a team builds depth.
In recent years highly regarded blue liners like Hedman and Myers were rushed to the NHL and it looks like their careers have been damaged. Why did you pick Tampa as a trade partner to give up 2 first round picks for Murray? Because they desperately need a top pairing defender, really two. Hmmm...but Hedmanwas drafted in the exact same spot as Murray and some called him a franchise blueliner at the time. Now? Not so much.
If the CBJ want to play a grinding aggressive style, then it's important to build tremendous depth on the backend. I can only hope they can have the kind of depth Nashville has back there. They lost Hamhuis and easily replaced him. Then they lost Suter and replaced him rather easily as well.
The Jackets need to stock their system top to bottom. Teams often need as many as 10-11 defenseman to get them through the season, especially the playoffs. Not to put words in your mouth but it looks as if you're saying they won't need that depth. Ask Philadelphia what happens when your great blueline gets decimated. They went from one of the best defensive groups in the NHL to a terrible one in 4-5 injuries. Hell ask Vancouver, the year they made the Finals, they iced 12 defensemen in the playoffs.
On the other hand, lets look at teams that have not built great depth on defense, but instead done it offense- Edmonton? 4 franchise forwards and no playoffs...the aforementioned Tampa Bay Lightning. Washington, Carolina. Is that what you want for your favorite team? Lots of firepower and no shot to win a Cup?
Worrying about Murray's immediate future reminds my of a time I was listening to Bob McKenzie on Montreal radio talking about a Red Wings 1st round pick. He said, "Well, it's his third year in the system, so he'll get five games in the NHL." By the Red Wings standard, Murray wouldn't play in the NHL at all this season, but he would play 5 whole games in 2014-15.
That's what happens when a team builds depth.
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EXACTLY...
We can hate on the Wings all we want, but they are the model for doing it right.
Hello Johnny
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I would assume you mean Victor Hedman, but he's actually a pretty damn good defenseman with potential yet.
You make good points otherwise.
Mayor Bee
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Disagree in the last 10 years. Detroit's organizational depth, particularly their prospect depth, is substantially diminished compared to what it has been in years past. They were able to trade future assets for short-term solutions because they had enough system depth to be able to handle it, and keep around random depth players for various reasons.
Every player has a finite career life. Back in the day, Detroit would keep a kid in the AHL because they had the luxury of having enough on the NHL roster that they could do so. In the last few years, they keep kids in the AHL way past a reasonable point because of some misguided belief that doing so is inherently beneficial. Probably 1/3 of their forwards add absolutely nothing to an NHL roster, yet Nyquist and Tatar can't seem to get on the ice. Somehow it makes perfect sense to let Filppula and Brunner walk, while Helm and Abdelkader will never go away.
Mayor Bee
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- Dec 29, 2008
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As far as the topic itself, trading Murray because of the current roster is a textbook case of "permanent 'solution' to a temporary problem". He's 19 years old, yet somehow the guy who's not eligible for waivers (unlike Savard, Goloubef, and Prout) needs to be the one to go.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Apparently the answer to the question is "Because he isn't Alex Galchenyuk."
Trading him for picks would be disastrously stupid. Talented depth is not something you dump for futures because you're worried about waiver management. It's almost up there with the sentiment that not making the NHL in the first two years somehow means a guy needs to be traded "before he busts".
Trading him for picks would be disastrously stupid. Talented depth is not something you dump for futures because you're worried about waiver management. It's almost up there with the sentiment that not making the NHL in the first two years somehow means a guy needs to be traded "before he busts".
As the proud writer of many Ryan Murray trade offers let me tell you that you aren't even ballpark when it comes to value. I was pushing Murray+ for Drouin and then for Mackinnon, but you're offering him for a 2014 first and a 2015 first. That's likely to be worth far less than either stud forward.
Also Erixon is worth way more than a second rounder. He's a special talent who has just arrived, give him a break.
Our defence depth is ideal. There's no problem with it and its not bad for player development either. Worst case scenario is we lose Savard or Goloubef on waivers.
Also Erixon is worth way more than a second rounder. He's a special talent who has just arrived, give him a break.
Our defence depth is ideal. There's no problem with it and its not bad for player development either. Worst case scenario is we lose Savard or Goloubef on waivers.
LetsGOJackets!!
Registered User
I wouldn't even consider this at this point..
come on man, let us develop our players in peace. @ this point in time there is no earthly reason for us to trade Murray for future picks.. Shrooms man, your on shrooms
come on man, let us develop our players in peace. @ this point in time there is no earthly reason for us to trade Murray for future picks.. Shrooms man, your on shrooms
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