Why oh why did Jordan Schroeder fall?

[Hug Ben Laf]

Heya guys, Im an so call armchair scout and just a casual hockey fan. I have the 8th pick in my fantasy draft and Im thinking of picking Jordan Schroeder at 8th. But did I miss something that the scouts did not? here is my own scout on Jordan Schroeder:

He was ranked to go top 10 most of the years: check

He fall because of his size? BUT, GMs must know that nowdays size dont matter as much as before in the new NHL. And let see from NHL, veteran Martin St.Louis, young guns Pat Kane is doing very well. From this year draft Ryan Ellis is about the same or smaller than Jordan Schroeder: check

He always been producing wherever he goes, at WJC he was considered the best player with names like Colin Wilson and JvR on the team, he is even putting up alot of points as a freshman in WCHA: check

Kreider is considered to be the the best skater in this draft and ppl say he will be one of the best (fastest?) skater when he enter the NHL, 2nd on that list from the TSN scout list is John Moore whom skating is of the strong point to made him a first round pick, sharing that 2nd place is Jordan Schroeder: check

Size again, Schroeder post some of the best result and was one of the strongest guy at the draft combine: check

So I cant see why he fall? people said bad interviews? bad attitude? I have yet to read any fact or seeing that...

I just dont know, what do ya all think? why oh why did he fall?

Click to read more...

 

[Valic]

Apparently he interviewed very very badly plus the size thing.

 

[SP]

Regarding the interview, do a search for gare joyce's posts. He wrote about it in the last few weeks.

 

[Hug Ben Laf]

Apparently he interviewed very very badly plus the size thing.

I see, do ya think ya know any link so I can read about it? Im just trying to be an a-hole, just wanna read about it.

 

[Burlington Bomb 26]

He seems very full of himself.

 

[CrosbyCrosby*]

He seemed fine in the post-draft interviews

 

[SP]

I see, do ya think ya know any link so I can read about it? Im just trying to be an a-hole, just wanna read about it.

I did a search, but couldn't find it.

I'm paraphrasing here, but Joyce reported that when asked what he needed to improve on, Schroeder couldn't name a single thing. When asked who he thinks his linemates will be next season, he said he'd already told his coach who he'd be playing with.

Just a very big ego in general. I'll take another look later and see if I can find it.

EDIT: I found this post, but it wasn't the one I was looking for;

I saw other posters on here mentioning "rumours" of bad interviews. No rumours, just facts. Talked to the scouts and it was a consensus of those surveyed. Eyes rolling. The type of kid who has never had to know his place. Entitled or something like it.

 

[BadHammy*]

He is supposedly super, duper cocky and that turned a lot of people off.

 

[SK13]

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=20100364&postcount=711

Blamed teammates. Said he had no weaknesses. All straight faced. That sort of thing.

Being 5'8 didn't help his cause.

 

[raygunpk]

As a Canuck fan, I hope he grows out of it... somehow.

 

[SP]

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=20100364&postcount=711

Blamed teammates. Said he had no weaknesses. All straight faced. That sort of thing.

Being 5'8 didn't help his cause.

That's the one I was looking for.

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

So it's the kind of player who will be moved around in his career because of this character issue...teams will say at one point "but what if he change with us". He'll put up points on the board, but won't fit well with a winning team I guess...

 

[Valic]

He seemed fine in the post-draft interviews

Of course he was fine post-draft, he was probably humbled by the fact noone thought he was as good as he thought he was.

 

[Peter Griffin]

So it's the kind of player who will be moved around in his career because of this character issue...teams will say at one point "but what if he change with us". He'll put up points on the board, but won't fit well with a winning team I guess...

That or he's a cocky 18 year old who rules the roost in his world at this time. Kids do mature you know.

 

[NFITO]

it's way too early to write off an 18YO with character issues to say that he will never mature.

He said all the right things in prospects camp for the Canucks - including having to work hard to improve every area of his game (acknowledging that no area of his game can't be improved!)... and didn't his coach already refute the comment that he told him what linemates he'd play with? you'd think that he'd have to be a bit more mature than that for him to be playing a leadership role on his team, as a rookie?

all I know is that he did say all the right things in Canuck camp... and given that, and the Canucks very high emphasis on overall character and integrity, I'll trust the Canucks staff to know more about this kid than an already refuted report seem to state.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I always thought he totally blamed him self for the WJCs. He said in an interview that he felt terrible that he was singled out to take the penalty shot and missed. Felt he let the team down.

His strength was not an issue at the combine. I think his bench score was big. But his endurance was borderline. Once you get hit, in the NHL its bigger hits. It zaps your endurance. I think that is one thing to go along with his size. His skating was rated very high.

For interviews. You can fall in love with the politican answer. But it says nothing about the players true charactor. Schroeder was a hard worker at the U. Never heard anything bad about him.

He was second on the team in scoring. Losing by one point with one less game. He was tied for the lead in +/-. He was third in PP points. Tied for second in PK points. Played as a top PKer. He did it all.

In a deep draft. I think there was enough. For teams to say do we get a guranted 2nd liner or take a chance. Schroeder could be a star He has all the tools. he could be the greatest AHLer to ever play at the same time. I doubt any team questioned his skill set. Only time will tell if his intangables will hold him back or not.

 

[Peter Griffin]

it's way too early to write off an 18YO with character issues to say that he will never mature.

The thing is, are these really "character" issues? Being cocky isn't a character issue and can actually be beneficial for a pro athlete. AFAIK there haven't been any reports of any problems with coaches, teammates or anything of that sort. He turned off a bunch of scouts because he didn't respond to their questions with cookie cutter, straight laced answers like the majority of other prospects are coached to do.

 

[mnwildfan79]

He's 18 and he's been the best his entire life.

Arrogance can be a good quality in a player if harnessed correctly. He is not stupid and realizes that each level of hockey you advance you have to work harder. He has done that each and every time he has advanced, he has always pushed himself and never taken the easy way. Meanwhile, it translates to confidence on the ice which is something you cannot teach and oftentimes is what makes good players great.

Certainly a high risk/reward picks, you are playing with fire and there's no guarantee he'll be able to handle not being the best. But from my perspective the reward will be so high I thought it was worth a pick at 4-9 and will be the steal of the draft.

 

[SP]

The thing is, are these really "character" issues? Being cocky isn't a character issue and can actually be beneficial for a pro athlete. AFAIK there haven't been any reports of any problems with coaches, teammates or anything of that sort. He turned off a bunch of scouts because he didn't respond to their questions with cookie cutter, straight laced answers like the majority of other prospects are coached to do.

These are pro scouts you're talking about. Not a bunch of fans on a message board judging him. These guys are paid by NHL teams for the express purpose of finding the best hockey players. They have a lot of experience, and are generally good at their jobs. This isn't their first interview, nor is it the first cocky player they've scouted. If Schroeder was taken lower than a lot of us expected, it was for a reason.

21 teams didn't pass on him just because he didn't answer questions the way he was expected to.

 

[Go Habs Go]

The thing is, are these really "character" issues? Being cocky isn't a character issue and can actually be beneficial for a pro athlete. AFAIK there haven't been any reports of any problems with coaches, teammates or anything of that sort. He turned off a bunch of scouts because he didn't respond to their questions with cookie cutter, straight laced answers like the majority of other prospects are coached to do.

It depends, some grow out of it, and some never do. Hopefully he does, its sad to see good talent go to waste.

I understand that you're a nuck fan but some people are just jerks and will be a jerk their whole life. Maturity has nothing to do with it. Some guys let their success get to their head and as they get to the NHL, make more money, fans asking for autographs..it can get worst sometimes. We'll see how he respond.

 

[Peter Griffin]

dn't pass on him just because he didn't answer questions the way he was expected to.

That's the reason we're being given, that he was cocky and arrogant and turned off the scouts in his interviews. Talent isn't the issue here and while his size is a concern he has shown he can fight through checking and with so many smaller players translating their games to the NHL level it's not nearly as much of a concern as it used to be.

I think what caused Schroeder to drop the most was the overall disparity of the draft. There wasn't a huge drop off in talent between around 8th or so in the draft and into the mid 20's. I'm not saying there aren't concerns regarding Schroeder and those concerns, however serious there are, caused teams to pass on him for a player they feel isn't pretty close in comparison.

 

[Titan124]

That or he's a cocky 18 year old who rules the roost in his world at this time. Kids do mature you know.

I'd imagine some kids mature very fast when they have Scott Hannan or Brendan Witt or any enforcer/big guy lay a hit on them, especially when they're 5'8. His cockiness is somewhat warranted, I mean he was easily the best player on team USA, and is definitely the best player on his team. That confidence will be important for him in order to not bust, since I'm sure it will be very intimidating at his size.

 

[YogiCanucks]

I'd imagine some kids mature very fast when they have Scott Hannan or Brendan Witt or any enforcer/big guy lay a hit on them, especially when they're 5'8. His cockiness is somewhat warranted, I mean he was easily the best player on team USA, and is definitely the best player on his team. That confidence will be important for him in order to not bust, since I'm sure it will be very intimidating at his size.

I'm pretty sure he's gotten over the "being intimidated at 5' 8" " thing by now. He wouldn't be the player he is if he was.

 

[Ryan52]

perhaps alex volchkov attitude? lmao

He seems very full of himself.

agreed

He seemed fine in the post-draft interviews

rofl
there two different kinds of interviews

 

[NFITO]

I'd be much more worried if he fell so far in the draft because of ability or flaws in his game, than if scouts felt he didn't have the right character to succeed.

Given the emphasis the organization puts on this, I'm a lot more confident that they will be able to develop him properly. It's not like the Canucks coaching and development staff won't be working on his attitude and character issues (this was the biggest reason why Ryan Walter was even brought in, in the first place, not to mention the team psychologists they have in place).

That's not to say that he will turn into a sure-fire NHLer. There's no way you draft anyone at 22 and expect them to be a guarantee to make the NHL - he's still a project in many ways, and may still be a bust... but is having to develop a player's character when he's 18 YO, any more difficult than to develop his hockey sense, for example?

You have to have a certain amount of faith in an organization that puts as much emphasis on character as the Canucks seem to do now, that they will have the right people and resources in place to help develop that part of his game as well.

And again, all we saw from him from prospects camp was all the right things... he's specifically said that he feels he needs to work on every area of his game to improve to get to the NHL level... and his college coach has said only great things about him as well. He's also considered one of the smarter players around - a straight A student his whole life... surely there are enough right things in place - from his own intelligence level, to the organization's emphasis on player and personal development, to think that he can still develop into an excellent NHL player?

Maybe prospects camp gave him some things to reflect on... Gillis did mention that one of the books that he's had all the prospects read is "Talent is Overrated" ... that would seem to apply more to a guy like Schroeder than to most players, given the comments we've heard about the kid.

having said that, he's still a project, just like every player taken anywhere near him in the draft. If there were no concerns with his game, or himself personally, then he would have been a sure-fire top 10 - maybe top 5 - pick in the draft.