Why is this team incapable of holding leads/closing out games?

[thewave]

leafs cant achieve any kind of stability on the back end with gardiner giving the puck away all the time, you might think well its only 3-4 brutal give aways a game but hey it also tampers with the psychology of a team and gives the other team momemtum (refer to the islander game as a great example) one of the reasons why i dont think subban played for team canada, one of his patented giveaways could have been game over for us

Compared to Franson Gardiner is just fine tbh.

 

[Mess]

Lets play connect the dots

When you're 30th in shots against and 30th in shot differential it leads to a high goals against, because the other team is controlling the puck.

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A high goals against = weak defensively

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Weak defensively means it hard to protect leads and close out games since strong team defense is the path to success.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The issues are two fold: Coaching strategy and player personnel.

Carlyle has to stop asking the players to go into a defensive shell with the lead and the team requires at least two defensive upgrades on the blue line.

 

[Tak7]

The Leafs have blown three 3rd period leads in 2 games since returning from the Olympic break.

It's hard to pinpoint exactly what it is. They definitely change their approach and style when they get the lead - it's been such a common theme this season, that it has to be a tactical coaching decision or strategy rather than just pure randomness. Rarely do you see the Leafs just drive on once they have the lead. Instead they go into the..."shell".. that they just aren't capable of playing - not with their propensity for poor defensive coverage and turnovers

The other thing is just pure confidence. Whether it's the scars of game 7, or whether it's the constant blowing of leads in games, it's just not a team that looks comfortable and confident sitting on a lead - which makes it even more perplexing that Carlyle has them sit on leads rather than driving on trying to kill games off.

 

[ACC1224]

Think I read on Twitter they've blown 19 third period leads, most in the NHL.

Good news is they have 3rd period leads to blow.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't think it's any secret that the Leafs are easily the worst team at closing out a game in the NHL, but the question is why? Oddly enough, it doesn't seem to matter who the coaching staff consists of, or which players we have on the team, or which goalie is in net. You can almost guarantee, that if this team has a 1 goal lead in the last 10 minutes of the third period, they'll blow it. They've done just that 3 times in the last 2 games alone. It's beyond embarrassing. The Boston debacle wouldn't have happened to any other of the 29 teams in the NHL.

In my opinion, this is a mentally weak team. I honestly thought after what happened in Boston in game 7 last year, that it would be a good lesson for this team, to teach them to always play hard for 60 minutes. After watching them blow probably 15+ one goal leads in the 3rd this year, it's clear to me that they've learned nothing and are likely incapable of exorcising their demons. It doesn't help that we probably have the most mentally weak goaltending tandem in the NHL, either.

It's really not a mental thing -- it's the way our roster has been structured over the past 5 or 6 years. We don't cycle the puck well in the offensive zone, and don't play a strong possession game. We have a weak blueline and a poor breakout.

The most effective teams at holding leads are also those that hold onto the puck. The best defence for a 3rd period lead is keeping the puck 200 feet from your net, ideally without having 3 guys below the blueline. We don't do that well. Part of it is the roster, part of it is our compete level.

 

[Tak7]

It's really not a mental thing -- it's the way our roster has been structured over the past 5 or 6 years. We don't cycle the puck well in the offensive zone, and don't play a strong possession game. We have a weak blueline and a poor breakout.

The most effective teams at holding leads are also those that hold onto the puck. The best defence for a 3rd period lead is keeping the puck 200 feet from your net, ideally without having 3 guys below the blueline. We don't do that well. Part of it is the roster, part of it is our compete level.

Couldn't agree with this any more.

If you have the puck, the other team can't score. The Leafs don't have the puck enough as it is.

This isn't a grind 'em out, cycle team - it's a rush offense team.

 

[Mess]

It's really not a mental thing -- it's the way our roster has been structured over the past 5 or 6 years. We don't cycle the puck well in the offensive zone, and don't play a strong possession game. We have a weak blueline and a poor breakout.

The most effective teams at holding leads are also those that hold onto the puck. The best defence for a 3rd period lead is keeping the puck 200 feet from your net, ideally without having 3 guys below the blueline. We don't do that well. Part of it is the roster, part of it is our compete level.

I agree.

However we're already in year 6 of the rebuild, so how much more time is needed still to correct this?

We're spending to the cap ceiling so there isn't room to strictly add and plug the holes or correct the problems.

How does one turn a rush team into a possession team to increase its competitiveness and ability to hold on to leads?.

 

[Tak7]

I agree.

However we're already in year 6 of the rebuild, so how much more time is needed still to correct this?

We're spending to the cap ceiling so there isn't room to strictly add and plug the holes or correct the problems.

How does one turn a rush team into a possession team to increase its competitiveness and ability to hold on to leads?.

New coach?

 

[thewave]

I agree.

However we're already in year 6 of the rebuild, so how much more time is needed still to correct this?

We're spending to the cap ceiling so there isn't room to strictly add and plug the holes or correct the problems.

How does one turn a rush team into a possession team to increase its competitiveness and ability to hold on to leads?.

They ****ed up the rebuild. No other way to put it, it's a disaster.

 

[seanlinden]

I agree.

However we're already in year 6 of the rebuild, so how much more time is needed still to correct this?

We're spending to the cap ceiling so there isn't room to strictly add and plug the holes or correct the problems.

How does one turn a rush team into a possession team to increase its competitiveness and ability to hold on to leads?.

Well... presumably guys like Clarkson & Bolland. If you think back to when we did have those 2 in the lineup, they were an extremely effective pair at cycling puck with Raymond. Generally, a line should be able to cycle the puck if they have 2 forwards who are good at it, so there's almost a natural spot for Kessel, Raymond, and one of Kadri/Lupul. I think the next obvious target for improvement is our 2nd line, where you've got both Lupul & Kadri, who are way better in the open ice.

I think we also have to stop pretending like we can get by with all of these young / crappy guys on our blueline. Toronto is currently spending only $17m on their top 6 defencemen. One of those is Tim Gleason at $4m. More investment is required.

Phaneuf & Gunnarsson have been an excellent pair, but after that, it's been pretty much a disaster. You've got a couple of guys that are #4 defencemen (and don't have perfectly complimentary skill-sets), and a couple who are at best #5/6 guys (Rielly-Gleason). A good team usually has a 2nd pair which is comparable in overall calibre to their top pair. With having Gunnarsson at just $3m on our top pair, that should in theory make room for a $5m+ defenceman to anchor our 2nd pair. Girardi would've been a really nice fit.... and being able to put him out with Gardiner regularily, or with Gleason when defending a lead would likely decrease the amount of times we blow a lead.

 

[FreeBird]

do you have stats to back this up?

It's quite simple if your willing to play hard for 60 minutes and take the body the Leafs will succumb.

 

[egd27]

I wonder what/how long it would take to build this team exactly in the same mold as the St. Louis Blues. I've been saying this for ages. The St. Louis Blues are my model of what a franchise that hopes to be sucessful, and maintain that success, needs to look like.

The other team on a 47 year Stanley Cup drought?

 

[mikebel111*]

It's quite simple if your willing to play hard for 60 minutes and take the body the Leafs will succumb.

Habs looked great when sens took it to them in first round?
That was a big time Lol how sens dominated them physical wise

 

[Mess]

I think we also have to stop pretending like we can get by with all of these young / crappy guys on our blueline. Toronto is currently spending only $17m on their top 6 defencemen. One of those is Tim Gleason at $4m. More investment is required.

Leafs are spending Kessel ($5.4), Lupul ($5.25), Clarkson ($5.25), & JVR ($4.25) =~ $20 mil on thier top 4 wingers.

If good teams success model structure are built from the goalie out, through strong defense ... yada yada yada and your building from the Wingers In by spending more $ on wingers then your defense core could that be a problem?.

 

[FreeBird]

Habs looked great when sens took it to them in first round?
That was a big time Lol how sens dominated them physical wise

That's right, and the Leafs are a soft team, a one line team, look at the Leafs top nine forwards other than Clarkson and all he'll do is take a dumb penalty. If Boston had played game 3 and 4 the same way they played the first two games it would have been over in four. They got over confident and lost their edge, but in only 10 minutes they recovered in time to annihilate us, no one will be looking past them this year if they make it. They better win tonight because the road trip coming up could be lights out for us.

 

[mikebel111*]

That's right, and the Leafs are a soft team, a one line team, look at the Leafs top nine forwards other than Clarkson and all he'll do is take a dumb penalty. If Boston had played game 3 and 4 the same way they played the first two games it would have been over in four. They got over confident and lost their edge, but in only 10 minutes they recovered in time to annihilate us, no one will be looking past them this year if they make it. They better win tonight because the road trip coming up could be lights out for us.

Wrong. Leafs gave bruins issues with their speed. Bruins only won because leafs were tired Also u mixed up the games. Check ur info before posting stuff. And ur not a leafs fan. So quit saying "us"

 

[FreeBird]

Wrong. Leafs gave bruins issues with their speed. Bruins only won because leafs were tired Also u mixed up the games. Check ur info before posting stuff. And ur not a leafs fan. So quit saying "us"

They talked about our speed last year not this year, Bolland, Clarkson, and Lupul have slowed the Leafs down. This team is not as good as last years plain and simple, thank you Nonis, for making us slow and soft.

 

[mikebel111*]

They talked about our speed last year not this year, Bolland, Clarkson, and Lupul have slowed the Leafs down. This team is not as good as last years plain and simple, thank you Nonis, for making us slow and soft.

As if ur a leafs fan. Bolland is not slow. Was a huge loss. Lupul and clarkson need to be better. I will give you that.
But this team is better. U need to realize this fact. They just need work ethic. Calm down wow

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Leafs are spending Kessel ($5.4), Lupul ($5.25), Clarkson ($5.25), & JVR ($4.25) =~ $20 mil on thier top 4 wingers.

If good teams success model structure are built from the goalie out, through strong defense ... yada yada yada and your building from the Wingers In by spending more $ on wingers then your defense core could that be a problem?.

I would rather see Lupul and possibly even Clarkson moved out. Kadri needs a skilled linemate who is tough on the puck and thrives in traffic. If Vanek was somehow available, he'd be excellent as would Jagr or Andrew Ladd ( mean PWF). If Kadri is going to represent our future, he needs to be better complimented much like Seguin over in Dallas.

I'm still a bit iffy on Clarkson. He could form a pretty effective shutdown pair with Bolland. However, I think we could even try Holland, or our youngsters, while trying to acquire a legitimate top pairing defenceman.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Ladd/ Vanek - Kadri - Kulemin/ Youngster?
Bolland - Holland - Brodie/ Youngster?
D'Amigo - McClement - Smith
Orr

Most contenders tend to have two legitimate scoring lines. We should be moving towards that IMO. The fact that Kadri is going to be our #1 means that he needs to be better complimented.

 

[Hotel Mario]

The Undeniable tRuth is that Leafs are their owN wOrst enemy, Vexing all ExtRemely passionate fans such as mySelf.

 

[Purity*]

On the flip side, we are one of the strongest teams in the league when down by 1 or 2 goals.

I'll find the stats.

They talked about our speed last year not this year, Bolland, Clarkson, and Lupul have slowed the Leafs down. This team is not as good as last years plain and simple, thank you Nonis, for making us slow and soft.

Yeah between JVR, Bozak, Kessel, Gards, Rielly, Kulemin, Raymond, Kadri, Bodie there is definitely NO shortage of speed on this team, it remained one of our biggest strengths coming into the season.

 

[seanlinden]

Leafs are spending Kessel ($5.4), Lupul ($5.25), Clarkson ($5.25), & JVR ($4.25) =~ $20 mil on thier top 4 wingers.

If good teams success model structure are built from the goalie out, through strong defense ... yada yada yada and your building from the Wingers In by spending more $ on wingers then your defense core could that be a problem?.

It certainly could be... although my inital inclination would be to say that our $20m in wingers aren't what's neccessarily preventing us from having a good defence. An expensive top 6 group shouldn't come at the cost of defence. It should mean a cheaper bottom 6 group.

I think if you look at this summer, with where the cap is projected to be, the Leafs should be able to accomodate a $5-6m defenceman while keeping Gardiner ($3m) and losing Franson ($4m). It'll mean losing things like Jay McClement as the team's 4th line centre, and mean that if we want Clarkson on the 3rd line, we'll need to find somebody to play on the 2nd line for less than $2m.

 

[yubbers]

Its Carlyles patent pending closing game plan.

Dump, change
Dump, change
Dump, change