Why is all of Canada celebrating????

[DevFan-RU-]

And if one single person or group from Nashville had shown any interest in buying the team, and accepting the losses while the market grows, this conversation would not be happening.

Growing the market is completely irrelevent at this point. The market has not grown enough in ten years to be viable. The current owner has had enough, and the new owner is making a buisness decision.

Maybe there were those in Nashville who wanted to buy the team. But then again, Balsille is kinda like a billionare. Money talks.

 

[Resolute]

Leipold has been very public for a very long time that he was looking for a local owner to sell to.

In the end, he had interest from only two parties: one representing KC, and Balsillie.

 

[Sotnos]

And if one single person or group from Nashville had shown any interest in buying the team, and accepting the losses while the market grows, this conversation would not be happening.

I'm guessing Leipold didn't realize how hard it would be and for how long he'd have to hang in there. Lack of planning or foresight on his part, perhaps. The one thing I really don't buy from his letter to the fans is that he did all he could. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but from all the reports that they screwed up in trying to get corporate support, something tells me that more could've been done.

The current owner has had enough, and the new owner is making a buisness decision.

Not sure if the first part is really a fair statement. It's hard to say if Leipold would've just hung in there if this life preserver (basically wiping out all his losses & his initial investment) hadn't been thrown his way. Presumably he would've had to. This was an offer too good to pass up IMO. The price is really high, probably for a number of reasons, one of which is that's what it took to make Leipold give up on the team.

 

[Sotnos]

Leipold has been very public for a very long time that he was looking for a local owner to sell to.

In the end, he had interest from only two parties: one representing KC, and Balsillie.

No, he was looking for local minority investors in the team, not to sell them outright.

 

[Gnashville]

to quote the great david byrne ... " stop making sense"

How is that making sense??? 200,000 people would be watching the jets every game that's about one third of the city.

 

[Resolute]

I'm guessing Leipold didn't realize how hard it would be and for how long he'd have to hang in there. Lack of planning or foresight on his part, perhaps. The one thing I really don't buy from his letter to the fans is that he did all he could. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but from all the reports that they screwed up in trying to get corporate support, something tells me that more could've been done.

You are probably right, however that is a fault of not understanding the market. One of the reasons why he was looking for a local owner. To own outright or to partner, doesnt make a huge difference when nobody local has shown an interest in owning even a share of the team.

Not sure if the first part is really a fair statement. It's hard to say if Leipold would've just hung in there if this life preserver (basically wiping out all his losses & his initial investment) hadn't been thrown his way. Presumably he would've had to. This was an offer too good to pass up IMO. The price is really high, probably for a number of reasons, one of which is that's what it took to make Leipold give up on the team.

Yes, Leipold could have hung in there even longer, and accepted the losses. He decided he has gone as far as he can. That is his right. He does not owe it to the Nashville market to absorb any further losses if he is unwilling to take them.

 

[vivianmb]

How is that making sense??? 200,000 people would be watching the jets every game that's about one third of the city.

last night there were no fewer than 8 televisions on back porches last night watching the sens on hockey night in canada. my block is 10 houses long and has a back alley. the back alley was rockin. for the sens!!!
so do i think 200,000 in the REGION( north dak. northern minnesota, saskatchewan,western ontario, winnipeg, manitoba)would watch jets on tv? YES

 

[Gnashville]

Leipold has been very public for a very long time that he was looking for a local owner to sell to.
In the end, he had interest from only two parties: one representing KC, and Balsillie.

4 months is a long time??? because that's how long it's been public knowledge. The KC group and Balsillie jumped at the chance to buy and move the team because they had the money already to do so. He got one person to invest (most people think it was Vince Gill) but it would take longer to get up to the 40% range the Hamilton and KC groups started a bidding war until someone local in Nashville had no chance to counter offer. Considering we were told that "the team is not moving" and "I'm not selling out" by Leipold why would anyone rush the process??

 

[Resolute]

4 months is a long time??? because that's how long it's been public knowledge. The KC group and Balsillie jumped at the chance to buy and move the team because they had the money already to do so. He got one person to invest (most people think it was Vince Gill) but it would take longer to get up to the 40% range the Hamilton and KC groups started a bidding war until someone local in Nashville had no chance to counter offer. Considering we were told that "the team is not moving" and "I'm not selling out" by Leipold why would anyone rush the process??

And how long was Leipold digging behind the bushes before then? The market had ample opportunity to buy in. It didn't. Leipold chose to cash out.

 

[Resolute]

last night there were no fewer than 8 televisions on back porches last night watching the sens on hockey night in canada. my block is 10 houses long and has a back alley. the back alley was rockin. for the sens!!!
so do i think 200,000 in the REGION( north dak. northern minnesota, saskatchewan,western ontario, winnipeg, manitoba)would watch jets on tv? YES

Most likely, a Winnipeg team would end up on RSN West. about 5.2 million people. So 200,000 viewers is possible.

Realistically, Winnipeg would not be likely to average better than the Flames and Oilers do, so the 100-125k range for viewers is a better estimate.

 

[hfboardsuser]

That is his right. He does not owe it to the Nashville market to absorb any further losses if he is unwilling to take them.

And if the fans in Nashville don't feel it's a substantial loss, I invite them to buck up the cash to cover the deficit. Using Leipold's numbers, it would cost 13,000 fans $1038/year to just break even. That's the cost of keeping them alive while they wait for the market to grow substantially enough to attract appropriate corporate sponsorship.

So I invite Preds fans to look at it again: if $1038 isn't something you're comfortable with pissing away every year, what on earth should you expect someone else to do it?

 

[Gnashville]

last night there were no fewer than 8 televisions on back porches last night watching the sens on hockey night in canada. my block is 10 houses long and has a back alley. the back alley was rockin. for the sens!!!
so do i think 200,000 in the REGION( north dak. northern minnesota, saskatchewan,western ontario, winnipeg, manitoba)would watch jets on tv? YES

He said in Winnipeg not the region
You should know the SCF's on a Saturday night is going to draw bigger ratings and more interest than a regional broadcast on a Wednesday in January vs The Islanders. Too say that Winnipeg would get that type of following is completely unrealistic.

 

[vivianmb]

He said in Winnipeg not the region
You should know the SCF's on a Saturday night is going to draw bigger ratings and more interest than a regional broadcast on a Wednesday in January vs The Islanders. Too say that Winnipeg would get that type of following is completely unrealistic.

read the post again this time pay attention.
he said a REGIONAL BRODCAST.you should come up here next winter. we'll take a skate on the red river. or we could go to the community center and play.or we could go to the bar on a wednesday and fight for a stool near the big screen to watch tsn wednesday night hockey. you really have no understanding how deeply hockey is ingrained in the population here? do you?

 

[Gnashville]

read the post again this time pay attention.
he said a REGIONAL BRODCAST.you should come up here next winter. we'll take a skate on the red river. or we could go to the community center and play.or we could go to the bar on a wednesday and fight for a stool near the big screen to watch tsn wednesday night hockey. you really have no understanding how deeply hockey is ingrained in the population here? do you?

Probably very close to that of football in Tennessee but I'm not going to say over 1 million people are watch the Titans on Sunday or The Vols on Saturday which is what you are saying. Huge following do doubt but not that huge. Some people in the world simply do not care about sports. Even the super bowl does not get those type of ratings. 20% of the entire population sounds very high and made up

 

[vivianmb]

Probably very close to that of football in Tennessee but I'm not going to say over 1 million people are watch the Titans on Sunday or The Vols on Saturday which is what you are saying. Huge following do doubt but not that huge. Some people in the world simply do not care about sports. Even the super bowl does not get those type of ratings. 20% of the entire population sounds very high and made up

20% ?
saskatchewan/manitoba/western ontario/northern minnesota/n.dakota REGION
population = about 3 million people ( no links just looked up pops. on rand mcnally).
20% of 3 million =600,000 people. not 200,000.
btw i never mentioned the vols or titans. i mentioned the nhl on tv in this REGION .
you should see my kids' school. i bet every team in the nhl is represented by the hockey jerseys worn in that building. (200 students). you think their dads arent watching the nhl on tv? if so , i again invite you to come on up and see what a hockey town looks like.
p.s there are two mens leagues in winnipeg for the summer. one has 84 teams, the other i believe 50. nope, none of those guys are watching hockey on tv.

 

[Sotnos]

Yes, Leipold could have hung in there even longer, and accepted the losses. He decided he has gone as far as he can. That is his right. He does not owe it to the Nashville market to absorb any further losses if he is unwilling to take them.

Just to clarify, I NEVER said he should. Never. Just like I don't blame players for taking fat contracts when they're offered, I don't blame the guy. He got an offer too good to refuse, no one should blame him for taking it. Ballsillie offered far above what the team is valued at IMO because he knew that's what it would take.

if so , i again invite you to come on up and see what a hockey town looks like.

Do you have anything to add here except anecdotal "evidence"? You're coming off as condescending & arrogant while not really adding anything constructive or informative.

 

[hillbillypriest]

i thought this was hockey talk seems more like a Canada vs United States. allot of my country is better than yours crap going on .i live in Tulsa Oklahoma have been a habs fan all my life the closest thing i have to hockey here is tv or going to see a chl game unless i want to drive to Dallas 250 miles away .personally i want hockey to just make it, if in Nashville great but if the team dosen't then somewhere else Nashville is not the only team with problems out there. Personally i would rather have a team out west like in Winnipeg or Seattle the east is pretty full but i just want a team in a good market so is will help out hockey . i love my country and i love Canada to i even married a Canadian girl. so lets not make this a nation vs nation issue i don't think that is the problem

God Bless the USA and Canada
Support the troops

Thanks for the sentiment of this post. Despite the title of this thread, all of Canada is not celebrating Nashville's current situation. I've been there with my team a number of years ago, and it truly sucks. To the fans of Nashville that who have fallen in love with the game and their team, my greatest sympathies go out to you and I will be supporting every effort of the team's fans to put pressure on the league to preserve the team where it is now.

To the thread starter, please stop with the generalization that all Canadians are against your team and/or revelling in your misery. This is not true.

 

[Resolute]

20% ?
saskatchewan/manitoba/western ontario/northern minnesota/n.dakota REGION
population = about 3 million people ( no links just looked up pops. on rand mcnally).
20% of 3 million =600,000 people. not 200,000.
btw i never mentioned the vols or titans. i mentioned the nhl on tv in this REGION .
you should see my kids' school. i bet every team in the nhl is represented by the hockey jerseys worn in that building. (200 students). you think their dads arent watching the nhl on tv? if so , i again invite you to come on up and see what a hockey town looks like.
p.s there are two mens leagues in winnipeg for the summer. one has 84 teams, the other i believe 50. nope, none of those guys are watching hockey on tv.

The border would divide regions, so it is unlikely that Winnipeg would even appear on TV in the Northern Minnesota/North Dakota areas.

Also, I would be willing to bet that the Ontario border east would be Leafs country, so Winnipeg games would be blacked out there too.

 

[Gnashville]

20% ?
saskatchewan/manitoba/western ontario/northern minnesota/n.dakota REGION
population = about 3 million people ( no links just looked up pops. on rand mcnally).
20% of 3 million =600,000 people. not 200,000.
btw i never mentioned the vols or titans. i mentioned the nhl on tv in this REGION .
you should see my kids' school. i bet every team in the nhl is represented by the hockey jerseys worn in that building. (200 students). you think their dads arent watching the nhl on tv? if so , i again invite you to come on up and see what a hockey town looks like.
p.s there are two mens leagues in winnipeg for the summer. one has 84 teams, the other i believe 50. nope, none of those guys are watching hockey on tv.

I included the province of Manitoba around 1 million not all of Saskatchewan, western Ontario, N Dakota, and northern Minnesota. You are assuming all of the fans in the areas would swith to a Winnipeg team. Once again be realistic because to extend the fanbase to that large of an area is not. Football in TN equivlant to hockey in Manitoba. See the comparision It's the #1 sport there no doubt but to exagerate the case is assnine. Please look at past attendance numbers from Winnipeg before making those type of statements, or provide current rating numbers. I know The old arena was crap but my understanding is there was only about 500 seats with obstructed views and the arena sat 16,500 so the average attendance should have been 16,000 people per game if no one wanted to go because of the bad sight lines. It was not any where near that more like 12,500 a season on average.

 

[Nashville108*]

Winnipeg is the ideal hockey city eh? Yeah, well hockey failed there and our attendance is better.

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[Wetcoaster]

Chipman has stated it on radio broadcasts as have others in Winnipeg. I'll see if I can find a link and post it in the Return of the Jets thread, although I doubt that would convince you. I'm sure it's actually already posted in that thread, so maybe you could find it yourself if you are truly interested.

GHOST

You would think, would you not if it were so and it is one of the most compelling arguments against going back to Winnipeg, that a media outlet would actually report it??????

 

[Wetcoaster]

to quote the great david byrne ... " stop making sense"

How does tha make sense?????????

The NHL's preferred market is the corporate ticket holder (more bucks per butt in seat) and the aim is for 60% corporate vs. 40% Joe and Jane Sixpack.

It also ignores the fact that given Vancouver's economy there is a much larger pool of companies and individuals with much higher disposable incomes able to purchase season tickets.

The company I currently work with has season tickets to the Canucks (4 seats), Giants and BC Lions. We distribute these tickets to clients for marketing purposes. We also use these tickets to reward employees who have done exceptional work.

Several large law firms (all larger than any firm that Winnipeg has) I have worked with also have multiple season tickets for the same purpose.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Here is the problem for Winnipeg.

The NHL shoots for 60% corporate season ticket holders because that is where the money is to be made. Here is what these sort of premium tickets will cost as of 2006-07 by Canadian team:

TEAM..................Prem. Avg. Ticket

TORONTO............$154.59
VANCOUVER.........$120.00
EDMONTON..........$118.33
CALGARY.............$102.56
MONTREAL...........$99.74
OTTAWA..............$89.78

The teams in serious trouble currently are the Sabres (lack of a strong corporate ticket base at less than 30% and low ticket prices in spite of selling out 50 games in a row) and Nashville (lack of a strong corporate ticket base also less than 30% and poor over-all attendance). Here are their premium seats:

BUFFALO…..$65.05 (average ticket price with 1,3% increase last season $30.07)
NASHVILLE…$86.47 (average ticket price with 10% ticket price increase last season $40.78)

Winnipeg is just another Buffalo (but with a much smaller arena. It makes no sense for the NHL to go there.

As Mark Chipman said in January 2006, it is becoming clear that the new NHL is just like the old NHL and that was before the latest salary cap jump. He said the only way that Winnipeg could compete was at the bottom end of the salary scale and that will not result ina successful team over the long term.

Figures from:
http://www.teammarketing.com/fci.cfm?page=fci_nhl_06-07.cfm

 

[Metallian*]

Winnipeg tried to steal the Pens in 04. .

This never happened.

 

[vivianmb]

I included the province of Manitoba around 1 million not all of Saskatchewan, western Ontario, N Dakota, and northern Minnesota. You are assuming all of the fans in the areas would swith to a Winnipeg team. Once again be realistic because to extend the fanbase to that large of an area is not. Football in TN equivlant to hockey in Manitoba. See the comparision It's the #1 sport there no doubt but to exagerate the case is assnine. Please look at past attendance numbers from Winnipeg before making those type of statements, or provide current rating numbers. I know The old arena was crap but my understanding is there was only about 500 seats with obstructed views and the arena sat 16,500 so the average attendance should have been 16,000 people per game if no one wanted to go because of the bad sight lines. It was not any where near that more like 12,500 a season on average.

Winnipeg Arena
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Winnipeg Arena
Ol' Barn on Maroons Road



Location 1430 Maroons Road
Winnipeg, MB R3G 0L5
Broke ground 1952
Opened October 18, 1955
Closed November 7, 2004
Demolished March 26, 2006
Owner Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation
Operator Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation
Construction cost $2.5 million CAD (Includes cost of Canad Inns Stadium)
Tenants
Winnipeg Warriors (minor pro) (WHL) (1955-1961)
Winnipeg Jets/Clubs/Monarchs (WCHL) (1967-1977)
Winnipeg Jets (WHA/NHL) (1972-1996)
Winnipeg Warriors (WHL) (1980-1984)
Manitoba Moose (IHL/AHL) (1996-2004)
Capacity
Hockey: 10,100 WHA
Hockey: 15,565 NHL
Hockey: 13,767 AHL

Winnipeg Arena was an indoor arena located at 1430 Maroons Road in Winnipeg, Manitoba, across the street from Canad Inns Stadium. Built in 1955, it was owned by community-owned Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation. At the time of the arena's construction, Enterprises was headed by prominent businessman Culver Riley and had borrowed about $2.5 million, most of it from the City of Winnipeg, to build the Stadium and Arena.[1] At the time, Winnipeg was Canada's third largest city and the new Winnipeg Arena was considered to be the finest facility in the western half of North America. The building's first major tenant was the Winnipeg Warriors (minor pro) of the Western Hockey League (minor pro) from 1955-1961. Its major tenant subsequently was the Winnipeg Jets of the WHA and the NHL from 1972-1996. In 1972 the Winnipeg Arena hosted game 3 of the famous "Summit Series" between Team Canada and the USSR. The game ended in a 4-4 tie. Following the departure of the Jets to Phoenix, Arizona, the Arena's prime tenant from 1996-2004 was the Manitoba Moose of the International Hockey League, and later of the American Hockey League.

The Winnipeg Arena was also home to the Winnipeg Warriors of the (Junior) WHL from 1980 through 1984, and the Winnipeg Monarchs of the same league in the 1960s and 70s. Also a popular location for filming movies, the building was used in the made-for-television Inside the Osmonds and the ESPN film A Season on the Brink. It hosted the fourth WWF In Your House pay-per-view in 1995.

The arena opened October 18, 1955 with the first regular season game between the Winnipeg Warriors (minor pro) and the Calgary Stampeders (hockey). The ceremonial opening faceoff was conducted by J. D. Perrin, President of the Warriors Hockey Club, before a sell-out crowd (including standing room) of 9,671. This was, at the time, the largest crowd in WHL history. The occasion marked the return of professional hockey to Winnipeg after a 27-year absence. The building sat 9,500 at its opening and replaced the obsolete Shea's Amphitheatre. In 1956, J. D. Perrin made an offer to purchase the Winnipeg Arena, Stadium, and Baseball Park Complex from Winnipeg Enterprises. In keeping with the tenor of the times, when public ownership was thought to be advantageous, the offer was rejected.

Renovations in 1979 expanded capacity to 15,565. In 1996, after the Jets left, another renovation took place. Club seats were added, the North End ice level seats were replaced with a club lounge.

The Winnipeg Arena earned the nickname of the "White House" amongst locals for its traditional White Out during Jets' playoff games. The Winnipeg White Out is the best known and most loved sports tradition in Winnipeg.


[edit] Decommision and demolition
Due to the opening of the MTS Centre, the Winnipeg Arena demolition was ordered. The City of Winnipeg took on the $1.45 million expense of demolishing the now vacant arena. The earliest predicted date for the cleared site was June 2006 and possibly as late as January 31, 2007. Final demolition was scheduled for 7:15am on Sunday March 26, 2006. However, the dynamite failed to bring the entire structure down. Hours later, construction vehicles did pull down the structure.

The Winnipeg Arena held its last event on November 7, 2004. The Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan Board or Ontrea Inc. purchased the Winnipeg Arena site for $3.6 million. The land is expected to be used for retail.


[edit] External link
Video of the failed implosion