!! Why high-quality independent scouts can't become NHL club scouts

[Just Linda]

If you're wrong as an amateur scout for an NHL team, you get fired.

If you're wrong as a media scout, you keep your job.

Pretty easy decision to me. It's the same reason former NFL coaches work at ESPN instead of going back into coaching.

NHL scouts are wrong a lot.

They don't get paid to give their opinions though, they get paid to give their observations. They track those observations over the course of months and submit them as reports/ log entries. No team (except allegedly the Yotes last year with their first round pick) rely on the views of one person before making a decision, they rely on the reports of multiple people.

You get 4 guys giving their opinions on the same player and their boss makes an opinion on that player based on the info the scouts give them.

 

[SomeDude]

Some of them simply don’t want to be. There’s a ton of travel and meetings if you’re employed by a team. Some people just like to do write ups as a hobby or have their own way of monetizing it.

 

[Frk It]

NHL scouts are wrong a lot.

They don't get paid to give their opinions though, they get paid to give their observations. They track those observations over the course of months and submit them as reports/ log entries. No team (except allegedly the Yotes last year with their first round pick) rely on the views of one person before making a decision, they rely on the reports of multiple people.

You get 4 guys giving their opinions on the same player and their boss makes an opinion on that player based on the info the scouts give them.

So how do you explain them getting fired for just giving their observations? Scouting is an entirely subjective thing. No clue how you can say they are not giving their opinions.

There is a good deal of turnover with regional amateur scouts, if I’m not mistaken.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Didn't vote. I guess "weak network base" but from the angle that the NHL is an Old Boys club (even lower leagues are) where you higher friends and former teammates or colleagues from elsewhere.

 

[SenzZen]

I would guess that the high-quality independents prefer the independent part of the gig.

Decide your own narrative and have a better work-life balance vs hitting the road when told and hoping to have your opinion valued.

 

[Egresch]

$50,000 a year to go watch hockey for an NHL team is pretty good. I'm sure gas, food, etc are all paid on these trips. You become good, you move up a director of amateur scouting and eventually assistant GM and maybe even GM.

That is very naive. Usually, you stay within scouting department e.g. Jan Gajdosik works around 30 years for Rangers, but he is something like European scouts coordinator. And he is the guy behind draft of Lundqvist and Shestorkin.

 

[hypereconomist]

It's not just your connections to the NHL old boys club that gets you a scouting position. It's also your network in your scouting area that counts.

The Pens had an article from a long-time ago (here) with a snapshot into "a day in the life" of one of their scouts. Aside from how awful the job sounds (i.e. lots of travel, lots of logistics and rescheduling, constant report writing, minimal days off, etc.), an independent like Corey Pronman probably doesn't know all of the Junior A/Midget AAA coaches in a specific region (e.g. to get honest qualitative feedback on a player) or have connections to specific major junior teams (e.g. to get player interviews and whatnot), among other things.

 

[VictorLustig]

Patrik Hall used to post on these boards many years ago. He got a job scouting for the Florida Panthers, now he’s an assistant GM for an SHL team.

 

[57special]

I know more about baseball scouting. If it's anything like hockey scouting, there simply isn't any money in it till you get to a pretty high level. In baseball, you are literally working for free at lower levels, no expenses paid, but might get a small finder's fee if you unearth a draft worthy player, a slightly larger one if you you pick the next Mike Trout. Baseball scouting is far more numbers based than hockey, so most scouting is done by people in offenses looking at websites and creating spreadsheets. Hockey isn't there yet, but is finding ways to go in that direction, as is soccer.

Scouts spend a lot of time in cold, drafty rinks drinking bad coffee from vending machines, then jumping in a car in the middle of winter to drive to the next game in another cold rink. It's not glamorous. To be decently(not well) paid, you either have to be connected(friends/family), a former player, or someone who has a proven track record of finding talent above and beyond others.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

A big difference between an internet hobby scout like myself and a real one - is the connections that these guys have with the coaches, GM’s and player personal of these teams. having that allows them to get to know the person, rather than just the player - and the importance of this can’t be understated. It is a very underrated part of player evaluation because someone like you and I don’t have this information readily available; So we’re relying entirely on the talent of a player. But we don’t know why these kids are playing hockey, and what makes them tick, how they are perceived by their teammates off the ice.. etc. that stuff matters.

 

[TopC0rner]

I would argue that there aren't that many "high-quality" independent scouts. Pronman is more of a journalist than a scout, imo.

 

[PatrickMcC]

I would argue that there aren't that many "high-quality" independent scouts. Pronman is more of a journalist than a scout, imo.

They’re all journalists. That’s what being in the media is.

 

[Breakers]

People actually believe “high quality” independent scouts can do the work that entire front offices struggle to.

They simply create lists.LOL
Most scouts within specific leagues, those are high quality scouts

People who claim to watch every league don’t know anything.

 

[Killerjas]

You should ask Scouching how difficult it is to get in touch with the people who pull the strings in hiring at NHL.

 

[LeProspector]

One of the best independent scouts: Yannick St. Pierre got hired by the Canadiens, https://twitter.com/DraftDynasty1.

Lots of independent analysts / data engineers have been hired by teams when the "fancy stats" explosion took over, but that might have been unique to about 10 years ago and most FOs didn't even have analytics departments. I think it's possible if you put out high quality content and get noticed, but most of the time scouts get hired due to their connections/relationships with FOs.

Man, I miss his videos

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Man, I miss his videos

I'll plug Blue Chip Prospect here and say he's the closest i've seen to Yannick, Quebecois accent and all.

https://www.youtube.com/@bluechipprospect/featured

 

[Jumptheshark]

Hello everyone! Your opinion is interesting. Why don't high-quality independent amateur scouts get a chance to work in an NHL club? What does it have to do with? Because their networking is weak? Because their work ethics is not high enough? Because the state of North American and European scouts is full? Or Because they have other goals? What do you think?

Your thought on how should looks a successful NHL Amateur Scout ? And what background skills can help ?

You can share here with some stories of successful scouts you know.

Who's says they don't? Also, scouting is not as glamorous as some might think. A buddy used to scout for the Sens a few years ago and I spent 2 weeks on the road with him. Lots of shit food, bad motels and watching a lot of crap hockey at lower levels

 

[pgfan66]

Who's says they don't? Also, scouting is not as glamorous as some might think. A buddy used to scout for the Sens a few years ago and I spent 2 weeks on the road with him. Lots of shit food, bad motels and watching a lot of crap hockey at lower levels

I don’t actually think anyone believes it’s glamorous. At least not anymore, there’s been enough coverage of the contrary by now.

But for many people, eating lots of shit food, drinking bad coffee, sleeping in bad motels and watching crap hockey at lower levels is the dream.

It’s really no different from other jobs. Some people enjoy them with everything they entail, others couldn’t see themselves lasting two seconds in the same job.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I don’t actually think anyone believes it’s glamorous. At least not anymore, there’s been enough coverage of the contrary by now.

But for many people, eating lots of shit food, drinking bad coffee, sleeping in bad motels and watching crap hockey at lower levels is the dream.

It’s really no different from other jobs. Some people enjoy them with everything they entail, others couldn’t see themselves lasting two seconds in the same job.

Well. I am a die hard hockey fan and did work behind the scenes here in Europe for a couple of years before Covid and I thought it would be a dream job. But scouting the game and watching it as a fan are two different things. My buddy played pro and even he grew tired of scouting after awhile

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

There’s no reason they can’t. Big thing for me is are they fronting their own money to get boots on the ground in rinks consistently and are they focused on one region. Video only goes so far, and you cannot know every prospect in the draft.

I coach at the highest level of travel lacrosse and it’s laughable to see recruiting rankings compared to what we think of the players because they don’t get the in person viewings, and when they do it’s 1/2 of a random game. Not their fault, but it’s just such a tough thing to be accurate about. And lacrosse is much more consolidated with all the best players playing in the same events on the East Coast US than international hockey is.

Really hard business if you’re not consistently seeing the same players and teams in person over and over. That is hard to finance for someone not making full-time money from it— even if you are its a thankless grind long term.

 

[pgfan66]

Well. I am a die hard hockey fan and did work behind the scenes here in Europe for a couple of years before Covid and I thought it would be a dream job. But scouting the game and watching it as a fan are two different things. My buddy played pro and even he grew tired of scouting after awhile

Like I said: It’s not for everyone. Just like any other job. But those who do it aren’t in it for the money – and they wouldn’t trade it for any other job.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Like I said: It’s not for everyone. Just like any other job. But those who do it aren’t in it for the money – and they wouldn’t trade it for any other job.

Like with everything. A lot has changed in hockey and scouting. You would be surprised how many scouts have changed careers over the past ten years.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Like I said: It’s not for everyone. Just like any other job. But those who do it aren’t in it for the money – and they wouldn’t trade it for any other job.

And the money in scouting is a lot less than it used to be

 

[TopC0rner]

There’s no reason they can’t. Big thing for me is are they fronting their own money to get boots on the ground in rinks consistently and are they focused on one region. Video only goes so far, and you cannot know every prospect in the draft.

Considering the past results of later rounds of the NHL draft, I question whether it's a good use of money to have "boots on the ground" and if that money wouldn't be better spent on the development of players instead.

 

[Slats432]

Hello everyone! Your opinion is interesting. Why don't high-quality independent amateur scouts get a chance to work in an NHL club? What does it have to do with? Because their networking is weak? Because their work ethics is not high enough? Because the state of North American and European scouts is full? Or Because they have other goals? What do you think?

Your thought on how should looks a successful NHL Amateur Scout ? And what background skills can help ?

You can share here with some stories of successful scouts you know.

Nepotism.