Why fight so hard for Phoenix, but let Atlanta move so easily?

[Magnus Fulgur]

Guys (and Gals), Atlanta's cap hit was 46m. Edmonton was 49, Columbus 53, and Florida was at 48. I think only the Islanders spent less than Atlanta.

All year, Atlanta didn't have a #2 RW, they made Antropov play out of position at center with a bum hip coming off of surgery, and Bogosian had one of the five worst plus minus ratings in the league.

Atlanta's the second (or third?) youngest team in the league with the second lowest payroll, no set second line, and no reliable second d pairing. And now these bozos want to sell the team??? I didn't go to many games this year because I knew the fundamental flaws of the team, and knew that the owners were obvilious to them. They can't even mention the captain (Ladd) by name in a radio interview when prompted!!!

What Atlanta Spirit is doing is negligence in my eyes.

 

[Killion]

What Atlanta Spirit is doing is negligence in my eyes.

Dont worry Magnus, the Druid's Fulgur attack on ASG is at hand. We'll soften them up with the lightning bolts, then send in the Rhino Mounted Bhantu Shock Troops to finish them off. Regroup, and March on NYC, headed straight for the Avenue of the Americas & NHL HQ.

 

[Dado]

And now these bozos want to sell the team???

Would you rather they kept owning it?

 

[Killion]

Would you rather they kept owning it?

Its pretty sad really. Waddell seems to have a decent hockey pedigree. Missed making the 80 US Olympic Team due to injury; career minor leaguer, coach. Assistant GM with Detroit, won a SC in 98 prior to joining Atlanta. The Heatley incident didnt help matters but still, the apathy exhibited by ownership has really been quite appalling.

 

[Dado]

...the apathy exhibited by ownership has really been quite appalling.

Yeah, but we're not talking about Lord Jim here, we're talking about a group that didn't cared about hockey right from the beginning. I get people are upset with ASG as the easy villain, but really, it seems this is all on the NHL for approving them as owners, and not doing something about the situation years ago.

I mean, putting themselves in a position where the owner can force a relocation by locking them out of the arena...not exactly the kind of prescience one would expect from a close associate of Beelzebub's like Bettman.

 

[Killion]

Yeah, but we're not talking about Lord Jim here....

Actually, Lord Jim is a perfect analogy; he abandoned ship & passengers as has ASG with the Thrashers, the redemption they seek purely financial as opposed to moral. And yes, I agree about the lack of prescience exhibited by the NHL. It should never have been allowed to have gotten to this point......

 

[Magnus Fulgur]

It all comes down to the lawsuit with Belkin. For the past five years, Atlanta Spirit has been trying to prove that their assets aren't worth as much as Belkin claimed they were (to maximize his buyout share). So, they had to make one of their teams (Thrashers) a money loser on the books to help their cause while having the other team (Hawks) make enough money so that they weren't absolutely bleeding money.

If they had just settled with Belkin early, Belkin would have sold the team but chances would be much greater that he would have sold the Thrashers/Hawks/Philips Arena as package, or would have found a local owner for just the Thrashers.

I just hope that Atlanta supports The Gladiators strongly and grows the youth program and can get another team (Phoenix??? ) in a new arena (Doraville GM Plant location???) soon. We haven't backed the team in Atlanta ever since the owner lawsuits spun out of control with the sides calling each other "evil" and the whole culture of the franchises (Thrashers and Hawks) became ruined. When The Thrashers made the playoffs, average attendance was 16,200 over the year. The groundwork was laid to have a good franchise in Atlanta, and then everything was thrown into the toilet the next year. The owners intentionally sabotaged the Atlanta Thrashers in the hopes of winning their lawsuit. We all knew what ASG was doing, and so in the end over half of the STH from the playoff-qualifying season have since not renewed.

Atlanta can have a successful hockey team. What has happened here with the community shunning The Thrashers is extreme. They've even shunned The Hawks even though they're a good team consistently making the playoffs. We all hate ASG here.

 

[Dado]

Actually, Lord Jim is a perfect analogy; he abandoned ship & passengers as has ASG with the Thrashers...

Except Lord Jim wanted to be a hero - ASG doesn't and didn't.

 

[Killion]

Except Lord Jim wanted to be a hero - ASG doesn't and didn't.

They be hero's to the "Code" Dado. The Pirate Code.

 

[Dado]

For all the heat Bettman takes, I do wonder how much of this mess is him, and how much of it is his boss(es). Because to my eyes, Bettman is generally quite a bit more professional and businesslike than many of the "high influence" owners.

 

[Drake1588]

The problem in Atlanta is not really the fans, so much as there is an ownership problem.

Granted, the current owners are dreadful, but the problem is that the league and the Atlanta owners that have been secretly trying to find new local owners for years have come up empty. No one wants to buy that team and keep it in Atlanta. THAT is why the governors, and Bettman, gave up.

In Phoenix, it's a squirrelly situation, but at least you have the Hulsizer bid and the occasional Reinsdorf tire kicking. In Atlanta, there is nothing truly viable in the way of an ownership group willing to take on the task of turning around the Thrashers.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The problem in Atlanta is not really the fans, so much as there is an ownership problem.

Granted, the current owners are dreadful, but the problem is that the league and the Atlanta owners that have been secretly trying to find new local owners for years have come up empty. No one wants to buy that team and keep it in Atlanta. THAT is why the governors, and Bettman, gave up.

In Phoenix, it's a squirrelly situation, but at least you have the Hulsizer bid and the occasional Reinsdorf tire kicking. In Atlanta, there is nothing truly viable in the way of an ownership group willing to take on the task of turning around the Thrashers.

You do realize that the court case with Belkin prevented ASG from selling the Thrashers until last December, right?

 

[Tommy Hawk]

You do realize that the court case with Belkin prevented ASG from selling the Thrashers until last December, right?

And phoenix has been for sale for more than even since the NHL owned them. Thrashers only officially for 5 months. I guess ASG being tools about the arena is what is going to do in the thrashers. No place to play even if local ownership is found.

 

[Killion]

For all the heat Bettman takes, I do wonder how much of this mess is him, and how much of it is his boss(es). Because to my eyes, Bettman is generally quite a bit more professional and businesslike than many of the "high influence" owners.

For sure, and fundamentally thats what it really boils down to. Technically, ASG were/are his "bosses'" (until they sell) along with the other 28 teams (Phx in Stasis until sold). Throughout Campbell's & Zieglers' tenures, I dont think there was any question both were being told what to do & when by a powerful cadre within the BOG's. About 4-5yrs into Bettmans reign however, you noticed some subtle distinctions from his predecessors whereby he appeared to have a longer leash & was freelancing. Post 2000 until today, his power has increased exponentially & with it overall league revenues, a combination of new media developments, the strong Canadian dollar and other factors, cemented during the 04-05 lockout, weakening the PA & thrashing Goodenow in the process.

In Phoenix, I think its obvious his plans in conjunction with Reinsdorf/Kaites & Beasley went awry in putting the squeeze on Moyes who erupted & enjoined forces with the "Dark Side" in Balsillie/Rodier. The initial plan just had to have been quarterbacked by Bettman & Daly, and after all is said & done, he certainly seems to have one Hell of a lot of leeway in securing a LOC to buy the team, use funds from a relo fee via Atlanta-TN against the sale price in Phoenix, in effect, act as an owner himself as opposed to strictly a Commissioner, but using league revenues in order to achieve his ends. There may or may not have been things he could or couldnt have done to stave off the meltdown in Atlanta. I mean, really, what could the NHL do short of rejecting them as owners years ago or going litigious on them which would have only fanned the flames of so obviously an apathetic & uncaring bunch?.

I cant imagine for a moment that an owner like Snyder or Jacobs could give a Tinkers whether there was a team in Phoenix, St.Louis or anywhere else, provided their bottom line wasnt affected & revenues continued to grow. He seems to have carte-blanche in not only dealing with the combined Phoenix-Atlanta pooling of revenues, though it remains unclear as to whether or not he enjoys the same freedoms with respect to the upcoming CBA negotiations. I would suspect so, but another lockout?. The players are receiving far more than they should be (58%) of league revenues; out of control GM's finding loopholes that need closing; backed by the wealthier teams who can afford them. Regardless, the man is clearly in the drivers seat, his personal style & mediability whether you like it or not is completely irrelevant. The guy has done a great of a job.

 

[trebendan]

When Chris Vivlamore tweeted on May 23/11 that the last buyer to keep team in Atlanta likely out, would the NHL be interested in keeping discussion open with this last buyer, in case they have to move the Coyotes to Atlanta?

 

[wjhl2009fan]

When Chris Vivlamore tweeted on May 23/11 that the last buyer to keep team in Atlanta likely out, would the NHL be interested in keeping discussion open with this last buyer, in case they have to move the Coyotes to Atlanta?

I really can't see them moving to atlanta.

 

[therealkoho]

Answer to the OP

Glendale has established itself as a city that the NHL can goad into throwing taxpayer(see socialism) money at a bunch of millionaires. Why have the been successful at this you may wonder? Glendale is one of those places that fancies itself a major city but has that small town mentality and feels it needs a "major sports" team to legitamize itself.

Whereas Atlanta knows it's a major city and understands that the Thrashers need Atlanta and not the other way around and so will not use the t/p's money to fund a failing venture.

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.

 

[knorthern knight]

When Chris Vivlamore tweeted on May 23/11 that the last buyer to keep team in Atlanta likely out, would the NHL be interested in keeping discussion open with this last buyer, in case they have to move the Coyotes to Atlanta?

A standalone hockey team without the other revenue streams won't work in Atlanta. Swapping in the Coyotes franchise for Thrashers doesn't solve anything. The only thing that might work is if...

• ASG sells the Thrashers to TNSE
• a new buyer comes along this year and buys the Hawks and the arena rights
• the NBA implodes
• the new owner desparately needs a tenant for 45 winter dates

A 1-season NBA lockout won't enhance the chance for a new Atlanta hockey franchise.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Answer to the OP

Glendale has established itself as a city that the NHL can goad into throwing taxpayer(see socialism) money at a bunch of millionaires. Why have the been successful at this you may wonder? Glendale is one of those places that fancies itself a major city but has that small town mentality and feels it needs a "major sports" team to legitamize itself.

Whereas Atlanta knows it's a major city and understands that the Thrashers need Atlanta and not the other way around and so will not use the t/p's money to fund a failing venture.

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.

Bingo. Phoenix loses Relavance in the media if they lose the Coyotes.

 

[DungeonK]

Answer to the OP

Glendale has established itself as a city that the NHL can goad into throwing taxpayer(see socialism) money at a bunch of millionaires. Why have the been successful at this you may wonder? Glendale is one of those places that fancies itself a major city but has that small town mentality and feels it needs a "major sports" team to legitamize itself.

Whereas Atlanta knows it's a major city and understands that the Thrashers need Atlanta and not the other way around and so will not use the t/p's money to fund a failing venture.

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.

OR the mayor of Atlanta doesn't know anything about hockey, doesn't care about hockey and views the Thrashers on the same level as the MLS team he is about to land (which he claims will offset the loss). If the Hawks were in trouble I can guarantee you Kasim Reed would've done SOMETHING in an attempt to keep them here. Empty suit, HUGE plate infront of him from all of the city's problems, zero political experience before being elected last year... he never really stood a chance, especially when his apathy is thrown in.

 

[Melrose Munch]

OR the mayor of Atlanta doesn't know anything about hockey, doesn't care about hockey and views the Thrashers on the same level as the MLS team he is about to land (which he claims will offset the loss). If the Hawks were in trouble I can guarantee you Kasim Reed would've done SOMETHING in an attempt to keep them here. Empty suit, HUGE plate infront of him from all of the city's problems, zero political experience before being elected last year... he never really stood a chance, especially when his apathy is thrown in.

The problem is the majority of the populace will not care about this issue. If he gets voted out, it will be because he did not whether this financial crisis well.
And Re: The Hawks, Atlanta is a majority black city. Of course he would have done something, because that would have pissed off 55% of the population.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Answer to the OP

Glendale has established itself as a city that the NHL can goad into throwing taxpayer(see socialism) money at a bunch of millionaires. Why have the been successful at this you may wonder? Glendale is one of those places that fancies itself a major city but has that small town mentality and feels it needs a "major sports" team to legitamize itself.

Whereas Atlanta knows it's a major city and understands that the Thrashers need Atlanta and not the other way around and so will not use the t/p's money to fund a failing venture.

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.

Glendale owns the arena ,, Without Coyotes they lose more money and are left with a arena that serves no purpose. It also is 2nd fiddle in market when it comes to concernts , etc.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Glendale owns the arena ,, Without Coyotes they lose more money and are left with a arena that serves no purpose. It also is 2nd fiddle in market when it comes to concernts , etc.

Actually, Jobing beats America West in attendees, as per the most recently available Pollstar numbers. THey don't play second fiddle.

 

[Ripper]

Original post

I think that the original post was why spend so much effort on keeping the Coyotes and not seemingly so much on the Thrashers.

I heard somewhere the they really wanted the Phoenix market to stay for strategic marketing and TV contracts...apparently the Phoenix area is the 5 lagerst ad market in the US, doesn't seem right to me buy I'm sure that I heard that somewhere.

Also heard somewhere that the Thrashers were always the Team that was going to be moved to Winnipeg and this goes back before last summer...
I guess we may never really know!

 

[mucker*]

Yes, I agree.
Why is the NHL fighting tooth and nail for Phoenix, running them for 2+ years, yet out of left field offering up Atlanta?


All this season, all we heard about when it came to franchise problems was Phoenix, Phoenix, and more Phoenix.
We rarely heard about Atlanta, it was not publizcized much at all, until after Phoenix got a 2nd leave of stay.

This is a fact, Atlanta may have been mentioned in passing, but just casually.

So yes, I don't feel like re-reading the thread and attempting to piece it together.
Can somebody please encapsulate, and provide a comprehensive summary as to why Phoenix has been in the news for over two years, being run by the NHL, and gotten everything possible to keep them around, but Atlanta pops up out of left field and is all but laid out for Winnipeg when Atlanta is a much more important big eastern market?

And don't give me this "well atlanta has been for sale for a 5 years" please, we rarely ever heard any news about the Thrashers, it never was publicized nor given the attention of Phoenix, to me it seems shady and totally underground.

So please...why did Phoenix get CPR and life support while Atlanta remained out of the news, only to suddenly take off?