Why don't NHL ever resort to a "soft cap" system?

[Treb]

I mean I'm more of a "players' fan" than a team fan or a bandwagoner. I only follow star players and watch highlights. I rarely watch full games because it's most of the time dominated by role players. I can tell why NHL is less about casual fans than NBA or even the MLB. At least in MLB you can wait until it's a player's turn to bat or pitcher's turn to start while NBA the star player can play nearly the entire game. I honestly don't find hockey that appealing from a team-play standpoint. I rarely even watch Leaf games despite living in Toronto area.

IMO I think the NHL could benefit from having more casual fans although that's probably not feasible due to the cost of entry and how confusing the sport is to newbies. I think the NBA makes a lot of money more from casuals than hardcore or team-based fans.

I would say hockey is probably not really a sport for you then, as superstar never had the same impact as in the NBA, even before the salary cap.

 

[Brownies]

Why would I want more imbalance between the teams ? I don’t care if they have to pay a penalty, I won’t ever see a dollar of that.

Toronto just had to manage their cap better, no need to look deeper.

 

[MessierII]

The soft cap is horrible. The nhl has the most balanced system. The soft cap is probably the biggest thing wrong with the NBA.

 

[BLNY]

The way NBA does this is reaching the salary cap means you have to pay luxury tax depending on how over the cap you are. While it might be as simple as signing the big names and going over the cap to pay tax, teams constantly try to avoid that. I think that excess tax money goes to the league. In the NHL if you went over the cap, you simply can't play.

Why don't NHL ever adopt a soft cap system with tax? This way it would give better revenue sharing and players can get paid what they're truly worth. I feel like hockey will players will never get paid more (despite enormous investment in that sport from a young age vs basketball) because teams can't afford to touch the cap. Even if you're gonna get superteams, it's not like it's a guarantee to win the cup because as ppl say "hockey is too random". I mean can you really guarantee to win the cup with a full 2 lines of superstars + rest are role players + a superstar goalie?

Given how teams are able to skirt the cap with LTIR, I'd say the NHL salary cap is pretty flacid.

 

[Stuzchuk]

The owners tanked an entire season to get the hard cap in place. I have a hard time believing that they're looking switch it up.

This... the best and easiest explanation why the NHL support a hard cap

 

[hotpaws]

my Leafs have plenty of advantages from being able to give massive front loaded bonuses to setting up endorsement deals as well as no cap on off ice personal but there's never enough money when your GM's a weak incompetent bitch

 

[FourRings]

Wouldn’t mind a system where 2 players of the teams choice don’t count towards the cap.

I'd like a system that promotes drafting and development i.e.) players you've drafted and developed only have X% of their AAV counted against the cap.

I doubt the players would be into this though.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I actually don't think the players would like this because I could see it increasing escrow

 

[Reality Czech]

Maybe the leafs could finally win that cup with a payroll of $200 million.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Man one thing I don't like about how the NBA is how convoluted their soft cap system is. Between "Bird Rights" and "Cap Aprons" etc., its an insanely complicated cap system. It leads to a lot of weird rules, exceptions that need to be created etc. that I don't think need to be introduced honestly.

Another problem is if you establish cap overage exceptions, teams are now potentially paying real dollars for the same cap hit.

Just as an example, let's say we use Gord Miller's idea of 15% not counting against the cap if you've played 7 years in the league on the same team consecutively:

- Player A is making 10 million AAV on a team (just a nice easy number to use)
- Player B a comparable to Player A and has played 7 years with the same team. Player B is about to sign a contract on a team that can go over cap
- Why would Player B not just ask for $11.5 million in real dollars if the AAV will be the same as the guy making $10 million? Otherwise, he could just threaten to go to Free Agency and get the same $10 mill from any other team
- If I'm the owner, why would I want to pay more for a guy than I would normally have to in real dollars when under the previous cap, I could've just paid him per his cap hit?

You might say that scenario is ludicrous but it happens in NBA Free Agency all the time and this is just one scenario. You would have to explore a whole bunch of ideas to keep things equitable under a soft cap system. And when a team like the Leafs, Red Wings, Rangers are all $30 mill over the cap but Ottawa is struggling to hit the floor? You're gonna have to introduce new rules to make it even more equitable, making things more complicated.

It's just a Pandora's Box I don't think anyone wants to open.

This is a good point. I'd like to see something like that be limited to eight year deals, that way you're at least getting that player for at least 12.5% more service time than they could get in free agency. Then also limit eight year deals to players with 7+ years of service time with one team. That would at least provide some incentive for both the player and team.

 

[Bluto]

Now do the NBA teams that didnt have Kawhi, Steph, or Bron on them

Just Dallas

 

[TGWL]

Most owners will want to keep the hard cap.
Rangers will just spend, spend, spend again. Here's some money for your team. Here's some money for your team. Here's some money to fit "Insert hottest free agent".

 

[OG6ix]

Like others mentioned NBA wishes it had a hardcap to keep player costs low - but the NBA players run that sport now so they can't get away from it other than to increase the penalty. Honestly, I can see a point in the near future where the owners lockout players because players are going to want a bigger piece of the pie as the league is about them moreso than the teams.

 

[HBK27]

I mean I'm more of a "players' fan" than a team fan or a bandwagoner. I only follow star players and watch highlights. I rarely watch full games because it's most of the time dominated by role players. I can tell why NHL is less about casual fans than NBA or even the MLB. At least in MLB you can wait until it's a player's turn to bat or pitcher's turn to start while NBA the star player can play nearly the entire game. I honestly don't find hockey that appealing from a team-play standpoint. I rarely even watch Leaf games despite living in Toronto area.

IMO I think the NHL could benefit from having more casual fans although that's probably not feasible due to the cost of entry and how confusing the sport is to newbies. I think the NBA makes a lot of money more from casuals than hardcore or team-based fans.

Might attract more casual fans, but would come at the expense of hardcore fans.

With a hard cap in hockey, every franchise has a chance to win a Cup at some point if they go about it the right way. Certain teams have more advantages, whether it's location, spending more on staff/scouting/facilities, local tax rates, etc. so it's not a perfect system but about as good as you can hope for. With a soft cap, I think you wind up significantly lowering the chances for many smaller market teams.

Growing up, I used to be a huge baseball fan - there are many reasons I'm no longer much of a baseball fan, but part of it is that there are certain teams out there that realistically will never win a World Series in the current system. The Pirates may get lucky at some point and have a good young team that can go on a run, but they'll likely fall short and the star players will all leave first chance they can get for a bigger payday somewhere else.

MLB 2021 Payroll Tracker

Just look at the discrepancy in payrolls in MLB, where the top team's payroll is 5x the amount of the lowest team. That's an insane imbalance.

 

[HBK27]

Yeah but you have teams that don't want to spend to the floor and are forced to, so they overpay for players that shouldn't make that much and it causes inflation....

You can still have a 50% cap as it would balance out relatively equal

Which teams, exactly, don't want to spend to the floor at this point?

The lower limit this past season was $60.2M - every team was at least $10M above this.

The Devils had the lowest cap hit at $70.9M, but that's because they're in the midst of a rebuild, not because of the owners being cheap. They also moved something like $11.7M worth of contracts out at the TDL for pending UFA's, which (though pro-rated) further lowered their cap hit.

 

[threeVo]

Just Dallas

Yep Exactly. The stars bounce around teams and chase rings because the cap system is so broken

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I mean I'm more of a "players' fan" than a team fan or a bandwagoner. I only follow star players and watch highlights. I rarely watch full games because it's most of the time dominated by role players. I can tell why NHL is less about casual fans than NBA or even the MLB. At least in MLB you can wait until it's a player's turn to bat or pitcher's turn to start while NBA the star player can play nearly the entire game. I honestly don't find hockey that appealing from a team-play standpoint. I rarely even watch Leaf games despite living in Toronto area.

IMO I think the NHL could benefit from having more casual fans although that's probably not feasible due to the cost of entry and how confusing the sport is to newbies. I think the NBA makes a lot of money more from casuals than hardcore or team-based fans.

Youre probably watching the wrong sport then. Hockey is a team game. Star players are stars, but without a large supporting cast they can't accomplish anything.

I cant stand the fact that two players deciding to go to the same team almost guarantees a championship like in the NBA.

I'm a fan of the NHL because its not the NBA. f*** the NBA

 

[Miri]

Youre probably watching the wrong sport then. Hockey is a team game. Star players are stars, but without a large supporting cast they can't accomplish anything.

I cant stand the fact that two players deciding to go to the same team almost guarantees a championship like in the NBA.

I'm a fan of the NHL because its not the NBA. f*** the NBA

To be fair, i think thats mainly because basketball is boring shit game, unlike hockey.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

Champions since 2010 (11 seasons)

NHL, 7 teams: Chicago (3x), LA (2x), pens (2x), Boston, caps, blues, tampa

NBA, 7 teams: GSW (3x), LA (2x), Miami (2x), Dallas, spurs, cavs, Raptors

Not to mention, Tampa might be a repeat winner again this year while the NBA is guaranteed a new team. But yeah, "same 4 teams". It takes 2 minutes to do a Google search.

It starts to get a bit crazy when you look at finalists since 2010 (11 seasons)

NHL, 15 teams: Chicago (3x), Boston (3x), LA (2x), pens (2x), tampa (2x), caps, blues, flyers, canucks, devils, rangers, sharks, predators, knights, stars

NBA, 9 teams: GSW (5x), Miami (5x), cavs (4x), LA (2x), spurs (2x), Dallas, Raptors, Celtics, OKC

The NBA had GSW vs Cavs finals 4 years in a row. The 4 years before that had the heat in the finals. Lebron has made the finals 9/11 years. The soft cap definitely allows you to buy the best player AND an all-star supporting cast.

 

[Butch 19]

Wouldn’t mind a system where 2 players of the teams choice don’t count towards the cap.

What if those 2 players want to get traded? They'd be leaving money on the table.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Wouldn’t mind a system where 2 players of the teams choice don’t count towards the cap.

Then why have a cap?

 

[vancityluongo]

Just Dallas

The first of the two Lakers championships too.

Which doesn't change the point meaningfully, but you could also pick out Kane, Crosby and Justin Williams, leaving only Boston, St. Louis, and Tampa as winners without those three. 2 teams vs 3.

 

[Melrose Munch]

There is no Canadian cup winner since the hard cap got put in place either.

 

[joestevens29]

Next thread: why don't the NHL dribble the puck like the NBA.

I don't see nothing wrong with these.

The NHL and well all sports leagues are consistently trying to get more fans to follow their sport. Why not help people understand the sport better. No real better place than here to be asking these questions.

 

[joepeps]

Which teams, exactly, don't want to spend to the floor at this point?

The lower limit this past season was $60.2M - every team was at least $10M above this.

The Devils had the lowest cap hit at $70.9M, but that's because they're in the midst of a rebuild, not because of the owners being cheap. They also moved something like $11.7M worth of contracts out at the TDL for pending UFA's, which (though pro-rated) further lowered their cap hit.

Well every team that takes on bad contracts and dead cap space....