Why didn't they pan out?: Ramzi Abid, Rico Fata, Simon Gamache

[Big Phil]

I'll stick to these three for now. Honestly, I remember the draft years very well of Abid and Fata. 1998 was a pretty good draft year and a year where a lot of players had good careers. Not necessarily the peak value, but a lot of fine careers carved out from that summer. I can still remember the knocks about each of them in the THN Draft Preview. Fata was called the best skater in the draft but he lacked hockey sense.

Abid had an insane stat line for his draft year in the QMJHL. 50 goals, 85 assists for 135 points and here was the whopper............266 penalty minutes! No joke. I don't even think he was much of a fighter either. He had a few, but it didn't account for that many penalty minutes. The only thing with him was his skating. That was a big drawback with him although he still went 28th overall.

Gamache wasn't drafted until 2000, a year after he was eligible and even then he was 290th overall. He had 143 points that year but the problem was he was 5'10" and there was this brief time in NHL history where a player of that height was treated like a stray cat. Then the next year he racked up 184 points but was even invited to the World Juniors. It didn't make sense to me. It hurt him that Brad Richards put up 186 points a year earlier so maybe it was just bad timing but I don't know why this guy didn't produce in the NHL because he racked up big numbers in the AHL.

So what is your opinion of these three? What do you remember about them? I remember Fata skating faster than everyone else I have probably ever seen and each time you saw him on the ice you noticed this. But the hockey sense thing was true and they even posted that on the scoreboard when he got drafted, something that caused a stir. But it was true. He was the classic "too fast for his own good" type of player. Cournoyer, only if Cournoyer could never skate without getting the puck caught in his skates. Abid was it injuries? Or was his skating just that bad? I can't remember. Did Gamache just play in the wrong era?

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[Voight]

Unrelated but I always remember Abid as a random AHL player I'd see every free agency in the NHL games

 

[VanIslander]

I watched and was huge on Gamache as a predraft prospect and even followed him closely, to the ECHL!

He had phenomenal offensive skills but the word on him was he lacked the physical fortitude (not size but strength) to make the jump to the next level. I thought he was going to prove his critics wrong. But indeed, he couldn't handle the contact, fell down a lot, stayed away from traffic and looked like a smaller, lesser version of Henrik Sedin, someone much bigger and more determined to handle the rigors yet still a creampuff.

I wasted a pick in several fantasy drafts on Simon Gamache. Sigh.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Simon Gamache was an "old". Only made midget AAA in his last year of eligibility. Junior in his draft year. His defensive play and playing without the puck was very weak.

Ramzi Abid, no purpose to his skating. Out of sync with time and space.

 

[NyQuil]

Rico Fata was one of the fastest skaters I’ve ever seen.

With zero work ethic and willingness to battle.

You still kind of wonder if he had come up in today’s game. Kind of like Alexandre Daigle.

Wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[HHHH]

I remember speaking with a scout about Fata when he was in the AHL, about how he was always the fastest guy on the ice.

The scout agreed, noted that he would be one of the fastest guys in the NHL too, and he could get to the wrong place on the ice faster than anyone...

Ouch.

 

[Big Phil]

Here is the thing with all of these guys, they had some exceptional ability at some facet of their game. Fata was blessed with blinding speed, Abid was your typical power forward and Gamache was offensively blessed too. With the stakes so high I just wonder why they didn't specifically work on certain aspects. I remember Tavares' skating being a bit of a concern when he was drafted too. Not like Abid's, but it definitely needed work. Tavares doesn't have blinding speed now, but he is alright in that category and relies more on his instincts and hockey sense than anything.

But it just goes to show you, Abid hires a power skating trainer and works on his foot speed and he may not have blinding speed but he would have speed that would no longer be a weakness.

Gamache, I don't know what he could work on, a lot of things I guess. Defense and strength have been two of his knocks from what we are saying. That could be worked on.

Fata is the most confusing case. If you don't have the head, you don't have the head, just like Daigle who had brilliant speed too but lacked hockey sense. Perhaps you can't teach that, but man, he was literally THAT fast that even just below-average NHL hockey sense would have made him pretty good in the NHL.

I realize this is all easy to say. Work ethic plays a part and not everyone can overcome their deficiencies even if they work on it.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Here is the thing with all of these guys, they had some exceptional ability at some facet of their game. Fata was blessed with blinding speed, Abid was your typical power forward and Gamache was offensively blessed too. With the stakes so high I just wonder why they didn't specifically work on certain aspects. I remember Tavares' skating being a bit of a concern when he was drafted too. Not like Abid's, but it definitely needed work. Tavares doesn't have blinding speed now, but he is alright in that category and relies more on his instincts and hockey sense than anything.

But it just goes to show you, Abid hires a power skating trainer and works on his foot speed and he may not have blinding speed but he would have speed that would no longer be a weakness.

Gamache, I don't know what he could work on, a lot of things I guess. Defense and strength have been two of his knocks from what we are saying. That could be worked on.

Fata is the most confusing case. If you don't have the head, you don't have the head, just like Daigle who had brilliant speed too but lacked hockey sense. Perhaps you can't teach that, but man, he was literally THAT fast that even just below-average NHL hockey sense would have made him pretty good in the NHL.

I realize this is all easy to say. Work ethic plays a part and not everyone can overcome their deficiencies even if they work on it.

Nothing you said would make a difference.

Gamache could produce offensively if he was the overager. No overagers in pro hockey.

Abid had size but he was not a power forward. Speed would not have made him one.

Upthread you had a scout's take on Fata. Jives with what was seen in the NHL.

 

[NyQuil]

Fata is the most confusing case. If you don't have the head, you don't have the head, just like Daigle who had brilliant speed too but lacked hockey sense. Perhaps you can't teach that, but man, he was literally THAT fast that even just below-average NHL hockey sense would have made him pretty good in the NHL.

I know a lot is made of Daigle’s dedication to the game, but he had a solid rookie season on one of the worst NHL teams of all time.

It’s just that his blazing speed came into the league in the mid-1990s where he was pulling a water skier down the ice every time he tried to use that speed.

Eventually he would have to try to go to the net where he was routinely checked into the post or the net. He took a remarkable amount of abuse.

It’s not hard to understand that he wasn’t having a lot of fun out there if you’re a speed demon playing in an era where obstruction was a coaching tactic and hooking someone was called the “can opener” and not “an automatic two minute penalty.”

I see some of these guys like Gaudreau out there today and wonder what would have happened if their draft dates were reversed.

 

[sr edler]

I know a lot is made of Daigle’s dedication to the game, but he had a solid rookie season on one of the worst NHL teams of all time.

It’s just that his blazing speed came into the league in the mid-1990s where he was pulling a water skier down the ice every time he tried to use that speed.

Eventually he would have to try to go to the net where he was routinely checked into the post or the net. He took a remarkable amount of abuse.

It’s not hard to understand that he wasn’t having a lot of fun out there if you’re a speed demon playing in an era where obstruction was a coaching tactic and hooking someone was called the “can opener” and not “an automatic two minute penalty.”

I see some of these guys like Gaudreau out there today and wonder what would have happened if their draft dates were reversed.

Good call on Gaudreau. Patrick Kane is a similar type of player, but we'll never know.

 

[NyQuil]

Good call on Gaudreau. Patrick Kane is a similar type of player, but we'll never know.

It makes you admire what guys like Pavel Bure were able to accomplish during that era.

 

[blood gin]

With Fata, he was speed and little else. Really his hands couldn't keep up with his legs. He couldn't do anything with the puck playing that fast it seems. No hands at all. He was like a runaway freight train on the ice

Fata shouldn't have played hockey. He was a speedskater and nothing more. And also had a dumb sounding name

 

[FerrisRox]

Short answers:

Fata - Had a ten cent head. Seemed lazy, disinterested but his achilles heel was zero hockey sense.

Abid - Couldn't skate at the NHL level.

Gamache - Shouldn't be on this list. Wasn't ever really an NHL prospect. He was way too poor defensively and way too clueless without the puck to ever be more than AHL guy.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Gamache really thought he was someone too...Simon played for Gamache.

I had to sit through a number of Fata and Abid games...you guys got them down already. Abid really lacked small area footwork. He wasn't very coordinated (for lack of a better word), he didn't figure out how to use what few tools he did have...

 

[sr edler]

It makes you admire what guys like Pavel Bure were able to accomplish during that era.

Bure had tree trunk legs and a bit of a mean streak too, plus good awareness. Probably saved him from being squashed like a bug Matheson/Pettersson style.

 

[blood gin]

Bure had tree trunk legs and a bit of a mean streak too, plus good awareness. Probably saved him from being squashed like a bug Matheson/Pettersson style.

Yes. You could be extremely fast and a featherweight. You can also be fast and agile and a freight train with the puck on your stick. Bure was closer to the latter

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Here is the thing with all of these guys, they had some exceptional ability at some facet of their game. Fata was blessed with blinding speed, Abid was your typical power forward and Gamache was offensively blessed too. With the stakes so high I just wonder why they didn't specifically work on certain aspects. I remember Tavares' skating being a bit of a concern when he was drafted too. Not like Abid's, but it definitely needed work. Tavares doesn't have blinding speed now, but he is alright in that category and relies more on his instincts and hockey sense than anything.

But it just goes to show you, Abid hires a power skating trainer and works on his foot speed and he may not have blinding speed but he would have speed that would no longer be a weakness.

Gamache, I don't know what he could work on, a lot of things I guess. Defense and strength have been two of his knocks from what we are saying. That could be worked on.

Fata is the most confusing case. If you don't have the head, you don't have the head, just like Daigle who had brilliant speed too but lacked hockey sense. Perhaps you can't teach that, but man, he was literally THAT fast that even just below-average NHL hockey sense would have made him pretty good in the NHL.

I realize this is all easy to say. Work ethic plays a part and not everyone can overcome their deficiencies even if they work on it.

big thing is you can teach/develop physical ability to a decent degree, and in some cases you can even turn a guy’s work ethic and intensity around. but you can’t do too much about hockey sense.

cases in point, prospect/AHL/early pro ryan kesler’s shot couldn’t break a pane of glass. he peaked 40 goals off a killer wrist shot.

bo horvat was a very limited skater when he came into the league. look at him now.

otoh, jake virtanen—has the size, muscke, elite speed, big shot, but barrels like a freight train to nowhere shooting at shin pads.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Rico Fata was one of the fastest skaters I’ve ever seen.

With zero work ethic and willingness to battle.

You still kind of wonder if he had come up in today’s game. Kind of like Alexandre Daigle.

Wrong place at the wrong time.

idk, imo you can simplify and say there are the wheels, the strength, the brains, and the will. i think with elite wheels you need to be NHL level in at least two out of the other three to make it.

with wheels, brains, will, but no strength you can still be mason raymond.

michael grabner, has the strength, a little more will, little less brains.

and then you look at a very similar player on the same team, jeff tambellini. he had the wheels and decent brains, but no strength and not quote enough will.

all to say, if everyone’s scouting report on him is accurate (i have no memory; was he strong at least?), with no brains or will rico fata probably wasn’t going to make it in any era.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Rico Fata was one of the fastest skaters I’ve ever seen.

With zero work ethic and willingness to battle.

You still kind of wonder if he had come up in today’s game. Kind of like Alexandre Daigle.

Wrong place at the wrong time.

Fata and Konstantin Koltsov were two peas in a very fast, very dumb pod.