Why did it only recently become important for NHL teams to their AHL affiliate close?

[CBlake]

For years NHL teams especially those on the west coast had their AHL teams quite far away and it was never an issue. Vancouver in Hamilton, all the teams in Atlantic Canada etc. and distance was never an issue.

Even when the the Flyers and Leafs moved their AHL teams into their own the back yard and talked about the advantages of it, teams did not just jump up and follow suite.

All of a sudden in the last few years it has become important to have them close by as seen by all the moves into California. So what has been the driving force behind the change?

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[LadyStanley]

"Last few years"?

Sharks have been trying to move their AHL franchise closer for at least a decade.


Ask Jamie McGinn if his dozens of cross country flights were easy? Or the handful of times the Sharks dressed/skated injured/sick players (or went a man or more short) as they couldn't recall anyone in time?

 

[210]

For years NHL teams especially those on the west coast had their AHL teams quite far away and it was never an issue. Vancouver in Hamilton, all the teams in Atlantic Canada etc. and distance was never an issue.

Even when the the Flyers and Leafs moved their AHL teams into their own the back yard and talked about the advantages of it, teams did not just jump up and follow suite.

All of a sudden in the last few years it has become important to have them close by as seen by all the moves into California. So what has been the driving force behind the change?

Two words: "Salary cap".

 

[210]

"Last few years"?

Sharks have been trying to move their AHL franchise closer for at least a decade.

Ask Jamie McGinn if his dozens of cross country flights were easy? Or the handful of times the Sharks dressed/skated injured/sick players (or went a man or more short) as they couldn't recall anyone in time?

When San Jose's affiliate was in Worcester exactly how many times did the Sharks skate a man short? Or played an injured player that shouldn't have played? Allow me to answer that for you....never.

 

[go comets]

It's also about growing your brand and fan base. Having a Ahl team 100-200 miles away just allows that group of fans to follow the players up to the NHL level and follow that team as well.

 

[LadyStanley]

When San Jose's affiliate was in Worcester exactly how many times did the Sharks skate a man short? Or played an injured player that shouldn't have played? Allow me to answer that for you....never.

Let's see. November 30, 2005 (man short) in Dallas. (3 roster players traded before game started; only 2 healthy bodies in town to play.)

How about the game that Jason White had to dress as emergency backup in Vancouver? Or 2014 when SJSU alum had to dress as backup the night before Thanksgiving?

I seem to recall another game or two where the backup was so sick (flu) they didn't sit on the bench even.

And perhaps 1 or 2 others I'm not recalling off the top of my head.


But with the need to have extra bodies in case of illness/injury, a lot more travel (see McGinn, Jamie) cross country due to cap issues.

 

[Nightsquad]

This is not a recent trend, most AHL teams were in proximity to their NHL clubs for years, more like two decades at the least. Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, and few of the western U.S. Teams were the exception. The IHL back in the 1990s until their demise could have secured their role with western affiliations but once the AHL annexed the remaining strong IHL teams the move was on, the writing was on the wall then.

Philly, Toronto, may have started the in the neighborhood trend trend but let's face it places like Binghamton, Providence, Hershey, Albany, Rochester, Hartford, Bridgeport, Allentown, have distinct advantages of being within one to three hours of their parent clubs. If you cannot drive within a few hours or don't have the ability to fly directly out of a city where your AHL team plays to get to your NHL team within a few hours it doesn't make sense. Hockey isn't like baseball, the roster turnover is huge. It looks as though the AHL these days is also seeing much more roster turnover with players bouncing between the AHL to the NHL and down to the ECHL and back....Times are changing but the game is still the game.

 

[210]

Let's see. November 30, 2005 (man short) in Dallas. (3 roster players traded before game started; only 2 healthy bodies in town to play.)

How about the game that Jason White had to dress as emergency backup in Vancouver? Or 2014 when SJSU alum had to dress as backup the night before Thanksgiving?

I seem to recall another game or two where the backup was so sick (flu) they didn't sit on the bench even.

And perhaps 1 or 2 others I'm not recalling off the top of my head.


But with the need to have extra bodies in case of illness/injury, a lot more travel (see McGinn, Jamie) cross country due to cap issues.

November 30, 2005 the Sharks affiliate was based in Cleveland, not Worcester.

The game White was signed and dressed was in Vancouver, and unless the Sharks affiliate had actually been in Vancouver San Jose would have been in the exact same boat no matter where their affiliate was based. Ironically enough, San Jose would have been in the exact same boat had one of their goaltenders gotten injured the day before Thanksgiving this season like happened in 2014 because their affiliate was 3000 miles away in Charlotte playing the Checkers.

It's also not that unusual for NHL teams to have to scramble for back-up goaltenders for whatever reason, it seems to happen a couple times a season. But San Jose playing short skaters because their affiliate was on the east coast? Never happened. Not once.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Simple answer really. Salary cap in 05-06 was $39 mil. Now it is over $70 mil.

The savings of one day of salary has gone up significantly where it is now at a point where the salary cap savings over the course of a season outweigh the additional travel costs for the AHL team.

There are probably also circumstances where the day savings may also limit bonus payouts and have other impacts.

 

[royals119]

Simple answer really. Salary cap in 05-06 was $39 mil. Now it is over $70 mil.

The savings of one day of salary has gone up significantly where it is now at a point where the salary cap savings over the course of a season outweigh the additional travel costs for the AHL team.

There are probably also circumstances where the day savings may also limit bonus payouts and have other impacts.

Exactly - and it isn't a new problem. The Kings have been talking about this issue for at least ten years. It just got to the point now where there were enough AHL franchises available, and enough places to put them, that they could put a division out west. Having only one or two teams out west doesn't help, because as 210 points out, teams play road games too. If your AHL team is based in a nearby city, but is traveling cross country to play all their road games, it doesn't really help. They needed to get agreement between at least five NHL teams, find 5 AHL franchises, and five buildings to put them in.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

It's also about growing your brand and fan base. Having a Ahl team 100-200 miles away just allows that group of fans to follow the players up to the NHL level and follow that team as well.

Agreed. Highly doubt anybody in Worcester really gave a **** about the San José Sharks for example except for the uneducated guy who really thought the Sharks gave a damn about Worcester and their success.

 

[210]

Agreed. Highly doubt anybody in Worcester really gave a **** about the San José Sharks for example except for the uneducated guy who really thought the Sharks gave a damn about Worcester and their success.

Based on my Facebook and twitter feeds, you're completely wrong.

 

[ckg927]

It's also about growing your brand and fan base. Having a Ahl team 100-200 miles away just allows that group of fans to follow the players up to the NHL level and follow that team as well.

Here in Buffalo, we know that very well. From the late 70s until 2007-08, Rochester served as the Sabres' top affiliate; Terry Pegula purchased the Amerks in mid-2011 and, after some finagling(to get out of its affiliation with Portland, and to settle any issues regarding the NLL's Rochester Knighthawks(since Pegula also owns the Bandits)), promptly made the Amerks Buffalo's top affiliate again.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Based on my Facebook and twitter feeds, you're completely wrong.

In what way? I would guess in cities like that and Manchester they mostly were Bruins fans.

 

[210]

In what way? I would guess in cities like that and Manchester they mostly were Bruins fans.

There are indeed mostly Bruins fans in Manchester and Worcester, but the people that were regulars at the games (meaning not necessarily season ticket holders) still are fans of the Kings and Sharks.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

There are indeed mostly Bruins fans in Manchester and Worcester, but the people that were regulars at the games (meaning not necessarily season ticket holders) still are fans of the Kings and Sharks.

The sad deal of affiliated minor league sports in cases. Los Angeles and San Jose and all couldn't care less about those cities or teams. One way relationship. I've never asked fellow ECHL fans if they riot for the parent team(I mean in wheeling or reading where its Pitt and Philly it makes logical sense that people probably already liked these teams) but people in Orlando being Leafs fans? I wouldn't expect that.

 

[HisIceness]

Supposedly the Hurricanes had been wanting to set up shop in Norfolk since they moved from Hartford in 1997 but could never reach a deal. I think it wasn't until late 2009 or so that they began eyeing Charlotte.

 

[Speed]

....

 

[talkinaway]

Not only did you need a lot of teams out west to create a new AHL division, you also needed the competitive impetus to do so. If all NHL Western Conference teams had affiliates in the east, they're all at an equal disadvantage with respect to each other, since, for all intents and purposes, their standings only matter with respect to other Western teams.

In other words, if the Sharks couldn't pull up a good AHLer to play in their home game against the Devils, neither could the Kings when the Rangers came to town.

Granted, not all Western Conference teams had that disadvantage - the Dallas Stars had the Texas Stars since 2009. But I suppose you could argue that enough of them had the disadvantage that it didn't really matter a whole lot.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Ignorant.

What's so ignorant about it? I'm too lazy to look up the distance but let's say thousands of miles. Chances are you'll never be going to see that team play live and don't get their games on TV. I suppose now if you get the sports packages on direct tv you can if you're willing to spend a nice chunk of cash on top of the original bill.

 

[Disengage]

Giving up is for losers. Like America...that's why we suck and Trump/Hilary are going to be our next leader.

What's so ignorant about it? I'm too lazy to look up the distance but let's say thousands of miles. Chances are you'll never be going to see that team play live and don't get their games on TV. I suppose now if you get the sports packages on direct tv you can if you're willing to spend a nice chunk of cash on top of the original bill.

Too easy.

 

[Speed]

....

 

[210]

Speed also didn't mention the trips to Montreal for Worcester fans to see the Sharks play, along with more than a handful of people traveling to San Jose to see the Sharks pay.

 

[Speed]

....

 

[Quack Shot]

For years NHL teams especially those on the west coast had their AHL teams quite far away and it was never an issue. Vancouver in Hamilton, all the teams in Atlantic Canada etc. and distance was never an issue.

Even when the the Flyers and Leafs moved their AHL teams into their own the back yard and talked about the advantages of it, teams did not just jump up and follow suite.

All of a sudden in the last few years it has become important to have them close by as seen by all the moves into California. So what has been the driving force behind the change?

I know from watching the Reign grow and the Gulls arrive it has made a huge impact on the fan bases here. Ontario is full of Kings fans and that city is quite proud of their team. The Gulls have had one of the best attendance in the AHL and has allowed the Ducks to market in SD more and just recently has been showing Ducks games on Fox Sports San Diego and taking advantage of the new team. Hockey here has grown a lot and will continue to grow some more because of these two teams. Not only that but our GM can take daily visits to see the prospects himself and in some cases call up players for a couple days to see them with the NHL players in practice.