Who would win a 7 game playoff series Leafs or Oilers?

[rent free]

Scotty Bowman and Dallas Eakins are equal coaches then.

Not one person has said that, but keep doing you.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

You have no absolutely NO CLUE how these individuals coach. Its a ridiculous comment.

I think it's a fair comment to say that the Oilers have a coaching advantage by having Tippett compared to Keefe. One is a proven and highly respected coach and one is a rookie with a very limited track record. Nothing ridiculous about that at all. It doesn't mean that Keefe can't prove he is a good coach but he certainly still needs to do that.

 

[bert]

I think it's a fair comment to say that the Oilers have a coaching advantage by having Tippett compared to Keefe. One is a proven and highly respected coach and one is a rookie with a very limited track record. Nothing ridiculous about that at all. It doesn't mean that Keefe can't prove he is a good coach but he certainly still needs to do that.

Keefe has the best winning percentage outside the NHL of any coach just about ever. Unless you are in the room or directly involved with each team you dont know. Keefe has had several job opportunities he wanted to stay in Toronto he could have been coaching in the NHL a while ago. Its simply not quantifiable.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Keefe has the best winning percentage outside the NHL of any coach just about ever. Unless you are in the room or directly involved with each team you dont know. Keefe has had several job opportunities he wanted to stay in Toronto he could have been coaching in the NHL a while ago. Its simply not quantifiable.

Dallas Eakins and Willie Desjardins also had great records outside the NHL just off the top of my head. Coaching in the pros is a completely different thing. And obviously the Marlies have advantages over many other non professional teams so that's hard to quantify and compare records. Just look at all of the highly rated college football coaches that failed as well when they went pro. I'm saying it's entirely reasonable and logical to say that Edmonton has the coaching advantage here.

 

[bert]

Dallas Eakins and Willie Desjardins also had great records outside the NHL just off the top of my head. Coaching in the pros is a completely different thing. And obviously the Marlies have advantages over many other non professional teams so that's hard to quantify and compare records. Just look at all of the highly rated college football coaches that failed as well when they went pro. I'm saying it's entirely reasonable and logical to say that Edmonton has the coaching advantage here.

Keefe has a way better track record that goes back to Pembroke not just in the AHL. Everywhere he goes he wins, very different situations. But thats not my argument. Tippett has an ok track record in the NHL, were not talking about a Bowman, Quenneville etc. From a fans perspective you dont really know this to be a fact who is a better coach than who. Compare rosters etc but you cant quantify something you dont know about.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Keefe has a way better track record that goes back to Pembroke not just in the AHL. Everywhere he goes he wins, very different situations. But thats not my argument. Tippett has an ok track record in the NHL, were not talking about a Bowman, Quenneville etc. From a fans perspective you dont really know this to be a fact. Compare rosters etc but you cant quantify something you dont know about.

We’re arguing in circles here.
Tippett has a proven track record of taking teams without a ton of talent and a limited payroll and getting good results. He's never had a team like Quenville or Bowman's so that's an irrelevant argument. Keefe has not proved himself at the NHL level. Full stop. I’ve already provided examples of successful minor league coaches flopping once they turn pro. Until he proves himself as an NHL coach it's perfectly reasonable to say Edmonton has a coaching advantage.

 

[Czechboy]

We’re arguing in circles here.
Tippett has a proven track record of taking teams without a ton of talent and a limited payroll and getting good results. He's never had a team like Quenville or Bowman's so that's an irrelevant argument. Keefe has not proved himself at the NHL level. Full stop. I’ve already provided examples of successful minor league coaches flopping once they turn pro. Until he proves himself as an NHL coach it's perfectly reasonable to say Edmonton has a coaching advantage.

Keefe

Tippet

 

[bert]

We’re arguing in circles here.
Tippett has a proven track record of taking teams without a ton of talent and a limited payroll and getting good results. He's never had a team like Quenville or Bowman's so that's an irrelevant argument. Keefe has not proved himself at the NHL level. Full stop. I’ve already provided examples of successful minor league coaches flopping once they turn pro. Until he proves himself as an NHL coach it's perfectly reasonable to say Edmonton has a coaching advantage.

Agree to dissagree then. Can use examples of great NHL coachs also losing their luster like Mike Keenan I just dont think its a quantifiable measure from a fans perspective.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Keefe

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Tippet

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Thanks. I’m

Keefe

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Tippet

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Thanks. I’m not going to assess a rookie coach on that small a sample size. And Tippett has not had the talent that Keefe has.
Advantage Edmonton imo.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Agree to dissagree then. Can use examples of great NHL coachs also losing their luster like Mike Keenan I just dont think its a quantifiable measure from a fans perspective.

Your argument is so badly flawed.

Basically, you can’t compare coaches at all then. It’s insulting to just throw out any opinion as “you don’t know what goes on in the room”. Then what’s the point of following a sport?

 

[rent free]

Keefe

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Tippet

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hasn't coached in the playoffs since 2012. yikes.

 

[Czechboy]

hasn't coached in the playoffs since 2012. yikes.

I think the stache was holding him back. Needed the offseason to perfect it! Now that it's gone, he's much more focused!lol

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Your argument is so badly flawed.

Basically, you can’t compare coaches at all then. It’s insulting to just throw out any opinion as “you don’t know what goes on in the room”. Then what’s the point of following a sport?

Agreed. To take an extreme. Would you take Scotty Bowman over Keefe.?
Teams assess and value coaches all of the time when they sign them to contracts. It’s not a precise science but guys like Quenville and Trotz are clearly highly valued around the league. I think even most Leaf fans would take them over an unproven NHL coach. Dallas Eakins and Willie Desjardins were two highly regarded but unproven NHL coaches. Success in the minor leagues doesn’t always result in NHL success.

 

[Czechboy]

Thanks. I’m

Thanks. I’m not going to assess a rookie coach on that small a sample size. And Tippett has not had the talent that Keefe has.
Advantage Edmonton imo.

I agree Tippet has the experience/edge at the NHL level. Would I call it a massive advantage? Not really. Oil have played great for Tippet. Leafs have played great for Keefe. I think both fanbases like 'their guy'. I'd personally give Tippet coach of the year as getting Edmonton into the playoffs is heroic... I don't think many were predicting us making the playoffs in October. Tipper is a big part of that. Big fan.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I agree Tippet has the experience/edge at the NHL level. Would I call it a massive advantage? Not really. Oil have played great for Tippet. Leafs have played great for Keefe. I think both fanbases like 'their guy'. I'd personally give Tippet coach of the year as getting Edmonton into the playoffs is heroic... I don't think many were predicting us making the playoffs in October. Tipper is a big part of that. Big fan.

Good post.
My main point was responding to a post that said it was ridiculous to say Edmonton had a coaching advantage. I don’t really take issue with anyone who disagrees but I’d give the edge to Tippett myself and I think it’s an entirely reasonable position.

 

[Czechboy]

Good post.
My main point was responding to a post that said it was ridiculous to say Edmonton had a coaching advantage. I don’t really take issue with anyone who disagrees but I’d give the edge to Tippett myself and I think it’s an entirely reasonable position.

An example of ridiculous is all the Matthews is as good as Connor arguments.lol He'd be our 3rd best forward.

I still think it'd go 7. No idea who'd win.

FTR.. I don't think either team was good enough to make the Stanley Cup Finals and that is the only place they could've met. Leafs would have to go through a crazy stacked Eastern Conference. Oil still had holes all over their roster (I just can't picture Mikko or Mike holding a Stanley Cup over their heads after winning 16 games).

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Keefe has the best winning percentage outside the NHL of any coach just about ever. Unless you are in the room or directly involved with each team you dont know. Keefe has had several job opportunities he wanted to stay in Toronto he could have been coaching in the NHL a while ago. Its simply not quantifiable.

Keefe has a way better track record that goes back to Pembroke not just in the AHL. Everywhere he goes he wins, very different situations. But thats not my argument. Tippett has an ok track record in the NHL, were not talking about a Bowman, Quenneville etc. From a fans perspective you dont really know this to be a fact who is a better coach than who. Compare rosters etc but you cant quantify something you dont know about.

Isn’t this pretty much the opposite of the argument we’ve had over leadership in the past, where I said you couldn’t quantify a gap in leadership between Stone/Panarin?

I actually think we can do more to quantify a coach’s impact although I agree with you that we don’t have nearly complete enough of a sample with Keefe at the NHL level to compare him to Tippett.

This is funny. A team that never even makes the playoffs, is a complete mess, not really any good at forward, d, goaltending, or anything, vs a team thats finished top 10 in the NHL every year for a few years now.

The leafs. Probably 4 games.

2016-2017: 13th
2017-2018: 7th
2018-2019: 7th
2019-2020: 13th

...

 

[bert]

Your argument is so badly flawed.

Basically, you can’t compare coaches at all then. It’s insulting to just throw out any opinion as “you don’t know what goes on in the room”. Then what’s the point of following a sport?

For the most part I agree, I dont think you can compare them unless one has a long track record of being bad or one that is considered one of the greatest ever.

Do you know? Is the real question. Or would you even be able to understand a good coach from an average one? I mean you'd have to have played the sport at a high enough level to know the difference and 99% of the people that post on here have barely played at all. Most people wouldnt understand things as simple as a hinge, what a real trap looks like, left wing lock, each players role in a power play break out. So no I dont think posters on HF have any real grasp on comparing coachs.

 

[Coffey]

Isn’t this pretty much the opposite of the argument we’ve had over leadership in the past, where I said you couldn’t quantify a gap in leadership between Stone/Panarin?

I actually think we can do more to quantify a coach’s impact although I agree with you that we don’t have nearly complete enough of a sample with Keefe at the NHL level to compare him to Tippett.



2016-2017: 13th
2017-2018: 7th
2018-2019: 7th
2019-2020: 13th

...

Leafs math.

 

[rent free]

Leafs math.

if you add up the totals and divide them by 4, you get 10. funny how math werks

 

[Kamiccolo]

Who knows? Seriously. Leafs seem to match up well against them in the regular season but that means nothing in the playoffs. I think the Oilers have the best players but Leafs are much deeper. Oilers don't have a Dman as good as healthy Rielly IMO. Muzzin is pretty damn good too.

But you also never know. Yam was playing well. Would be close with lots of goals that is for sure, but why are so many getting worked up over this? Who cares who would win in a hypothetical situation.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

if you add up the totals and divide them by 4, you get 10. funny how math werks

Finishing exactly 10th, on average, is not the same as finishing in the top-10 in every one of those years.

 

[Coffey]

if you add up the totals and divide them by 4, you get 10. funny how math werks

"Finished top 10" =\= Averaged top 10

Leafs english.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

For the most part I agree, I dont think you can compare them unless one has a long track record of being bad or one that is considered one of the greatest ever.

Do you know? Is the real question. Or would you even be able to understand a good coach from an average one? I mean you'd have to have played the sport at a high enough level to know the difference and 99% of the people that post on here have barely played at all. Most people wouldnt understand things as simple as a hinge, what a real trap looks like, left wing lock, each players role in a power play break out. So no I dont think posters on HF have any real grasp on comparing coachs.

So, if you haven’t played hockey. You can NEVER learn what those are? Cmon man, get real.

It’s like telling me that the average football fan can’t tell what’s the difference between a 3-4 defence from a 4-3 defence. I’m pretty sure if people watch the game, formulate opinions on deployments and systems, they can understand it well enough.

You can’t tell me that Eakins Swarm Defense, which was a f***ing disaster, can only be assessed by people who played the game. That’s dumb.

 

[rent free]

Finishing exactly 10th, on average, is not the same as finishing in the top-10 in every one of those years.

"Finished top 10" =\= Averaged top 10

Leafs english.

i was being sarcastic.