Who would Detroit take at 4?

[The Zetterberg Era]

Drysdale isn't the clear BPA though
He's been surpassed by Sanderson on several rankings.

I like Sanderson a lot and I think he is the safer defensive player.

I still cannot put him over Drysdale.

We have talked about how good Sanderson is as a skater and he is bested in every single way there by Drysdale.

The top three skaters in this draft are Byfield, Drysdale and Stutzle for me. They all have explosion, fluidity and agility. I also think where some are super concerned over what picking Drysdale would mean long-term I think it actually just means we deal from a position of strength at some point.

Drysdale is a first pair kind of guy. I do think the idea of Sanderson and Seider together is intriguing, I think ultimately we are just picking too high for it. If we were in our familiar #6 position I would have a lot of time for it.

 

[cjm502]

At 4 I really like Rossi but after Yzerman went off the board with Seider last year im going to trust his pick regardless.

 

[Go Wings]

The only winger we should be taking in the first round is Lafreniere period. If we do not get the top pick we need to take a center or Drysdale at 2-4.

 

[wingerdinger]

strong feeling if we are picking fourth stutzle will still be available.

 

[MBH]

For me, it's Sanderson or Askarov at 4. Maybe even at 3.
there are a whole lot of guys who are B+/A- prospects.
I think Sanderson and Askarov both have home run potential at a position we need. I'd be a bit worried about Askarov completely bombing out. But Sanderson has a high floor, so I'm going with him.
f*** if I'm drafting another winger unless it's Lafreniere. And even then, I'd consider taking Byfield.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

For me, it's Sanderson or Askarov at 4. Maybe even at 3.
there are a whole lot of guys who are B+/A- prospects.
I think Sanderson and Askarov both have home run potential at a position we need. I'd be a bit worried about Askarov completely bombing out. But Sanderson has a high floor, so I'm going with him.
f*** if I'm drafting another winger unless it's Lafreniere. And even then, I'd consider taking Byfield.

Stutzle over Askarov for me, but otherwise agreed, C/D is our goal here, in that order. I think Sanderson will surprise many & some GM will snatch him in top 7.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

I suppose Stutzle could be available at 4, if someone in the top 3 takes Askarov or Raymond. If Ottawa ends up with picks 1 and 3, I could see them taking Askarov. They'd have the luxury of a risky pick like that, and maybe they end up with a Hasek.

If Stutzle is still there, and if you guys think he'll probably be a better center than Larkin...I will allow it. And if you think Rossi has a good chance of surpassing Larkin, that's fine with me too.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I suppose Stutzle could be available at 4, if someone in the top 3 takes Askarov or Raymond. If Ottawa ends up with picks 1 and 3, I could see them taking Askarov. They'd have the luxury of a risky pick like that, and maybe they end up with a Hasek.

If Stutzle is still there, and if you guys think he'll probably be a better center than Larkin...I will allow it. And if you think Rossi has a good chance of surpassing Larkin, that's fine with me too.

The only guy I know (to be clear my opinion) will be a better center than Larkin in this draft is Byfield. I think Stutzle might be a 1B and 1A situation with Larkin, but that still isn't an easy claim right now. Rossi is a 2nd 3rd line tweener for me if he even sticks at center in the league for me. Which to be clear for me personally I don't think he will remain a center when it is all said and done. I think his lack of speed and reach ultimately will get him sent to the wing by coaches at the NHL level.

Lundell to me looks like a solid #2C option, I don't think he will be better than Larkin. But I think he is a center and will be a top 6 center for a long time. Stutzle might not transition to the middle of the ice where the responsibility doesn't take away from his offense, but I have less doubts about him because of his skating and attacking mindset in terms of if he does wind up out on the wing he should be a huge difference maker in your top 6.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

Well, crap, The Zetterberg Era, that's very disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, I love Larkin. But on a cup-contending team, he'd probably be a 2C, not a 1C. He'd be a very good 2C, but that's what you need to contend. I suppose if you had great talent in the bottom six, you could get away with Larkin at 1C and still win a cup, but we have Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Ehn, an apparently spent Nielsen. Yuck.

How do you feel about Byfield's floor? I've watched only a couple of videos of him; one made him look like he only ever scored on breakaways, the other showed his puck possession and passing off, but it looked like his team was brutally dominating the other, so that made it seem a little less impressive. Something makes me worry that he could completely flame out, that he's a less-safe pick than Stutzle or Drysdale.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Well, crap, The Zetterberg Era, that's very disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, I love Larkin. But on a cup-contending team, he'd probably be a 2C, not a 1C. He'd be a very good 2C, but that's what you need to contend. I suppose if you had great talent in the bottom six, you could get away with Larkin at 1C and still win a cup, but we have Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Ehn, an apparently spent Nielsen. Yuck.

How do you feel about Byfield's floor? I've watched only a couple of videos of him; one made him look like he only ever scored on breakaways, the other showed his puck possession and passing off, but it looked like his team was brutally dominating the other, so that made it seem a little less impressive. Something makes me worry that he could completely flame out, that he's a less-safe pick than Stutzle or Drysdale.

I have Byfield at #1 on my board so I am probably the wrong person to ask, I am a massive fan of him. I mean for me when I go for his less Malkin or Draisaitl comp I usually use Scheifele, who to be clear is a terrific hockey player. I just see him as #1C. He is a powerful skater with a big frame that dominates and bullies opposition. I guess if he doesn't live up maybe Keith Primeau to go back a few years, maybe non-peak Jamie Benn not sure how that happens or who I would go for as an excuse for him not being a 1C type.

Larkin plays the kind of in your face relentless game that #1C in his mold have used quite successfully in the playoffs. A part of what hurts Larkin right now is that is likely to be the place where you notice just how good he is and we aren't going there to validate that. I firmly believe he is better than ROR at the same age for instance, so you can win with Larkin in your #1C hole. You need a good team to win the cup. I have watched Larkin, Mantha and Bert blow the doors off enough really good lines heads up to think they just need help. I hope we land #2 for Byfield and we just have a #1A and #1B. Reality is most of the teams that have won have a pretty formidable one two punch at center, I have no doubt Larkin can be a part of that.

 

[HoweFan]

It’s looking like our choice is narrowed down to the top three in your poll. I haven’t heard too much buzz for anyone else

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

You think Stevie has already had discussions with other teams to get a sense of what they'd be willing to trade for the 4th pick (should they bad luck their way into it)? Or is it too early?

Unless Yzerman is as pessimistic over the lottery as everyone on these boards are, probably too early. Until the lottery says otherwise, I just can't see him having the mindset of the Wings owning anything but the #1 pick right now.

 

[MBH]

Well, crap, The Zetterberg Era, that's very disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, I love Larkin. But on a cup-contending team, he'd probably be a 2C, not a 1C. He'd be a very good 2C, but that's what you need to contend. I suppose if you had great talent in the bottom six, you could get away with Larkin at 1C and still win a cup, but we have Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Ehn, an apparently spent Nielsen. Yuck.

How do you feel about Byfield's floor? I've watched only a couple of videos of him; one made him look like he only ever scored on breakaways, the other showed his puck possession and passing off, but it looked like his team was brutally dominating the other, so that made it seem a little less impressive. Something makes me worry that he could completely flame out, that he's a less-safe pick than Stutzle or Drysdale.

I think there's no chance Byfield flames out - unless derailed by injuries.

I also wonder - can Larkin be Ryan ORielly? I made that comparison before. ORielly is a Conn Smythe winner now.

I watched Stutzle and i am concerned about his propensity for staying on the perimeter.

 

[Frk It]

For me, it's Sanderson or Askarov at 4. Maybe even at 3.
there are a whole lot of guys who are B+/A- prospects.
I think Sanderson and Askarov both have home run potential at a position we need. I'd be a bit worried about Askarov completely bombing out. But Sanderson has a high floor, so I'm going with him.
f*** if I'm drafting another winger unless it's Lafreniere. And even then, I'd consider taking Byfield.

What are the reasons you feel you would go with Sanderson over Drysdale?

For me, I like Drysdale by a pretty sizable gap.

 

[Mlotek]

like even if you completely ignore the whole Goalies being harder to project thing and can magically guarantee me Askarov will be elite that still doesn't tell me whether or not i'll actually want him once he starts getting paid like it,that entirely depends on year to year consistency and only like a couple Goalies a generation have that kind of consistency

Speaking of goalies getting paid.

Highest cap hit of a cup winning goalie from 09-19 was 6.1 with Holtby.

Binnington, Quick, Murray, Niemi won it with a sub 2 million caphit.

 

[lilidk]

What are the reasons you feel you would go with Sanderson over Drysdale?

For me, I like Drysdale by a pretty sizable gap.

They both very good , but it's not the biggest needs for Detroit. Drysdale is rd and we have Hronek and Saider already. Sanderson is awesome defensive defenseman and we need attacking LD. At 32 going to be couple available offensive LD. I believe Stutzle or Raymond is the choice for #4 sport. Also I don't believe we could trade down

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Speaking of goalies getting paid.

Highest cap hit of a cup winning goalie from 09-19 was 6.1 with Holtby.

Binnington, Quick, Murray, Niemi won it with a sub 2 million caphit.

Never pay your goalie.

 

[MBH]

What are the reasons you feel you would go with Sanderson over Drysdale?

For me, I like Drysdale by a pretty sizable gap.

Left side.
He's going to be a huge, minute-eating defenseman, all-situations (except maybe running the point on the powerplay) defenseman.
He's an unbelievably good defender in ways Drysdale never will be.

And to be honest, I think Drysdale's skills are overrated.
I watched the videos he doesn't look as dynamic as I expected.

At worst, Sanderson is a Seider-level prospect. We drafted Seider at 6.
Sanderson at 4 wouldn't be bad.

Even if Sanderson and Seider never develop that next level on offense...
You could pair
Sanderson-Hronek.
And then maybe Johansson-Seider
Or Cholo-Seider

If we draft Sanderson, our future defense could already be built.

Despite an influx of young defensemen who've stepped into the league and produced, it generally takes time for young defensemen to learn to play on the defensive side of things.
So we could spend the next 5 years developing Seider, Hronek, Cholowski, Sanderson, Johansson, McIsaac, etc...
Keep some of these guys like Larkin and Bertuzzi and Zadina around.
And then spend the next 3-4 years drafting the forward core.

 

[Frk It]

Left side.
He's going to be a huge, minute-eating defenseman, all-situations (except maybe running the point on the powerplay) defenseman.
He's an unbelievably good defender in ways Drysdale never will be.

And to be honest, I think Drysdale's skills are overrated.
I watched the videos he doesn't look as dynamic as I expected.

At worst, Sanderson is a Seider-level prospect. We drafted Seider at 6.
Sanderson at 4 wouldn't be bad.

Even if Sanderson and Seider never develop that next level on offense...
You could pair
Sanderson-Hronek.
And then maybe Johansson-Seider
Or Cholo-Seider

If we draft Sanderson, our future defense could already be built.

Despite an influx of young defensemen who've stepped into the league and produced, it generally takes time for young defensemen to learn to play on the defensive side of things.
So we could spend the next 5 years developing Seider, Hronek, Cholowski, Sanderson, Johansson, McIsaac, etc...
Keep some of these guys like Larkin and Bertuzzi and Zadina around.
And then spend the next 3-4 years drafting the forward core.

Good defensively in a way Drysdale could never be? I mean... Drysdale made Canada’s WJC team as a 17 year old, as a defenseman, and looked solid as hell. So I can’t agree with that take.

I get the appeal of Sanderson playing the left side. I get the appeal as far as his measurables and athletic ability. I think athletically he is pretty 1:1 to Miro Heiskanen. The problem is I don’t think he sees the ice or controls play like Heiskanen can.

 

[MBH]

Good defensively in a way Drysdale could never be? I mean... Drysdale made Canada’s WJC team as a 17 year old, as a defenseman, and looked solid as hell. So I can’t agree with that take.

I get the appeal of Sanderson playing the left side. I get the appeal as far as his measurables and athletic ability. I think athletically he is pretty 1:1 to Moro Heiskanen. The problem is I don’t think he sees the ice or controls play like Heiskanen can.

5'11 D are limited, defensively.
Not like Sanderson is a giant, but it's incredibly clear how good he is defensively. He's a guy who knows how to use his stick, use the angles. He uses the speed to cut down angles. He's not shy about rubbing out guys on the boards.

I think the offense is a work in progress.
I don't think he's got elite puck skills. but he's Above average for sure.
And seeing the ice - I think he's good now and will improve as he gets older.

Some people suggest he could play in the NHL next year. I'd like to see him learn to be an offensive leader in college for a couple of years.

I don't see dynamic offense and creativity the way you can with Makar and Heiskanen. But I also think he's not a finished product in that department.

Maybe i just don't know the other prospects well enough.
But Raymond, Holtz give us more wingers. Rossi - I'm not sure he's a 5'9 NHL center. Drysdale seems insane if we've got Seider and Hronek (not to mention Tuomisto and Lindstrom).
If qualified scouts are telling me Sanderson is a potential first pairing LD, and the video looks good, I'm having a hard reason not to take him.

Now, if I was in love with one of the other guys in the poll - I'd understand the apprehension. But as of right now, I'm not.

 

[MBH]

Never pay your goalie.

It's kind of been the mantra of the post-cap world.
Crawford deserved the Conn Smythe in 15. He was fairly well paid, no?
Quick was well paid, no?
Jonathan Quick had a pretty high cap hit for Cup #2.

One of these days a star goalie will win back-to-back cups and the new mantra will be, "you need an elite goalie."

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Jamie Drysdale is going to be a better player than Hronek, I would bet a lot on that... You know what Hronek might return when he is ready too? A proven second line center if we move him out to make room for Drysdale.

If you think Drysdale is the best player on the board at that point you take him. It doesn't matter that one guy plays the left or the right. You realistically have a couple years to make a decision on what is going on. Now you cannot be Winnipeg and over-shoot it. But the team that just won the Stanley Cup is the one we used to debate this on, but what are they going to do with all their right-handed D-man. You figure it out later on. Drysdale isn't bad defensively either so not sure where that is coming from.

Also, you cannot win without good goal-tending. Now I know we should just keep trying to attempt to catch lightning in the bottle. Develop all of our talent from within, have a cheap goalie catch a hot streak hopefully and everything will work. We don't need UFAs, we don't need a big time goalie that costs money. Might not work that way and interesting to put all your eggs in that basket. For the record Askarov will be cheap for his first three years under contract like other ELC guys. Really probably two since he will sign at the end of that second year post draft. But the idea a goalie isn't important isn't something I can get behind. Keep in mind on Murray, MAF was actually making decent money and they certainly don't have the second cup without him. The real issue here is the spending on the backup. If you get an elite one you have to find a really cheap backup. I trust Yzerman to do it. I also would point out he isn't a believer in this, Tampa was always going to play Vasy so from what we know he doesn't share the opinion of people that never want to pay a goalie at all costs.

 

[Frk It]

5'11 D are limited, defensively.
Not like Sanderson is a giant, but it's incredibly clear how good he is defensively. He's a guy who knows how to use his stick, use the angles. He uses the speed to cut down angles. He's not shy about rubbing out guys on the boards.

I think the offense is a work in progress.
I don't think he's got elite puck skills. but he's Above average for sure.
And seeing the ice - I think he's good now and will improve as he gets older.

Some people suggest he could play in the NHL next year. I'd like to see him learn to be an offensive leader in college for a couple of years.

I don't see dynamic offense and creativity the way you can with Makar and Heiskanen. But I also think he's not a finished product in that department.

Maybe i just don't know the other prospects well enough.
But Raymond, Holtz give us more wingers. Rossi - I'm not sure he's a 5'9 NHL center. Drysdale seems insane if we've got Seider and Hronek (not to mention Tuomisto and Lindstrom).
If qualified scouts are telling me Sanderson is a potential first pairing LD, and the video looks good, I'm having a hard reason not to take him.

Now, if I was in love with one of the other guys in the poll - I'd understand the apprehension. But as of right now, I'm not.

I think Drysdale is the better player today and it’s not close. In every way.

Maybe Sanderson passes him in 3-4 years given his age and athletic ability. But I don’t really like maybe’s like that when I’m drafting in the top 3-4 of the draft.

 

[SantosHalper]

Yzerman can and will surprise us again, if Stutzle doesn't fall to us. My gut feeling is that Yzerman trades down, picks Sanderson and continues to build the team PATIENTLY like he said multiple times. Back end first, since defenseman takes more time to develop. Detroit gets extra 2nd round pick in the process, and can use those four 2nd round picks to fix that center depth problem. There is still going to be decent center prospects available in the 2nd round, centers with better actual center-potential than Perfetti for example.

Sanderson is exactly the type of defenseman, Yzerman wants have in his team and Sanderson fits the team needs better than Drysdale. Drysdale is very good, but i just don't see him being that special as his hype is. Sanderson is kinda like Seider, only less physical but size, skating and defensive game is already there. And if Sanderson and Seider can find offensive game tools, only the sky is the limit how good those kids can be. And if Sanderson can't those tools, we still get a minute munching top-4 d-man with size and skating. Also 2021 NHL draft is also filled with quality defenseman, Yzerman can fix Detroit's defense with these drafts.

Anything can happen in this draft. I wish it was a draft day already.

 

[Bench]

It's kind of been the mantra of the post-cap world.
Crawford deserved the Conn Smythe in 15. He was fairly well paid, no?
Quick was well paid, no?
Jonathan Quick had a pretty high cap hit for Cup #2.

One of these days a star goalie will win back-to-back cups and the new mantra will be, "you need an elite goalie."

I think Wings fans are some of the hardest to convince because they watched Osgood get it done as a "good enough" goalie on stacked teams that are impossible to replicate in the modern area.

Like the difference between paying an elite goalie and a journeyman starter is a 3rd line depth player like Helm or Abdelkader. Or a Jonathan Ericsson. It's not even DeKeyser or Nielsen money difference. I'd rather bargain bin hunt for a 3rd line depth forward or 2nd paring PK guy than a goalie, honestly.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Wings fans are some of the hardest to convince because they watched Osgood get it done as a "good enough" goalie on stacked teams that are impossible to replicate in the modern area.

Like the difference between paying an elite goalie and a journeyman starter is a 3rd line depth player like Helm or Abdelkader. Or a Jonathan Ericsson. It's not even DeKeyser or Nielsen money difference. I'd rather bargain bin hunt for a 3rd line depth forward or 2nd paring PK guy than a goalie, honestly.

I think they also don't understand that Osgood was better than they thought, especially in the post-season after his rocky start in his younger years. Saved us in 08 and would have won the Smythe in 09 if they could have held it together and the NHL didn't screw us with the schedule. But look it up, better than your boy Belfour when the bullets are live in the playoffs.

But I agree having a top flight goalie, means you have a cheap backup and likely trim the fat somewhere else off your roster. You put about 8 million towards it, if you have a guy pushing you over, you need to figure somewhere else to trim a little more. Still you can build a roster with a good goalie and somebody will in a bit. Don't forget the highest paid player in Boston is actually Tuukka Rask. I will repeat that the little fact the best two teams in the NHL this season have high paid goalies, we will see if they win, certainly several believed them to be heavy favorites around here entering the shutdown.