Who was the better sniper in their prime? Luc Robitaille or Pavel Bure?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Puckgenius*, Aug 19, 2011.

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  1. Puckgenius*

    Puckgenius* Guest

    Dont forget Lucky Lucs 63G/125PT season in 92-93 :amazed: Highest scoring LW in NHL history. Bure is arguably the most dynamic player ever, never really had a legit setup man.
     
  2. tombombadil

    tombombadil Registered User

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    i don't think it's close, no offense to Luc. Gretzky is in a different universe than Cliff Ronning. Bure scored goals by himself, lots of them. I don't even care that his were fancy, and Luc's were usually simple... just give Pavel a top notch center and watch out.
     
  3. Puckgenius*

    Puckgenius* Guest

    Well thats the thing Bure never had a top playmaking centre feeding him the puck. Messier didnt have chemistry with him in Vancouver, his best was probably Petr Nedved in NY. Some of his best offensive seasons were in Florida where his centre was Len Barrie.
     
  4. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    Why did you put the poll options in reverse order from the way you listed them in the thread title?

    That's guaranteed going to **** up some people.
     
  5. tombombadil

    tombombadil Registered User

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    I actually consider those two seasons in Florida as his best. He had no one, and scoring was at it's lowest in ....well, recent history at least. Was it a year after his last nearly 60 goal season that 41 goals shared the Richard trophy. To be %50 better than what was elite at the time, and with no one to play with is a lot better than getting 63 with Gretzky in a higher scoring era. Gretzky turned a few guys into... well, hang on - 70 goal scorers.
     
  6. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    Tough to pick. Bure obviously had more overall skill when you take everything into account, but "sniping" simply mean putting the puck in the net. Robitaille had an unbelievable knack for that, it's what made a career for him. I'm willing to bet some vote Bure because of his flash, so I hesitate before I jump on that wagon and automatically say Bure. Still though in the end, I would likely give Bure the edge. More big goal seasons even with his injuries. It's tight but I guess Bure if I HAD to pick.
     
  7. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    the answer is bure.

    BUT-- the last thing robitaille was was a product of gretzky. as a canucks fan, i saw a lot of luc in his prime and i almost never saw him playing on the same line as gretzky except on the PP.

    luc regularly scored 45-55 goals a season before and during gretzky's tenure in LA. so it's not like his stats went up when gretzky came along.

    and during his one big spike season, when he got 63 goals and set the LW record, gretzky was injured most of the year and his center was kurri. so you could actually argue that he might have had better stats if gretzky had never come along and luc had to be the go-to guy.

    still, bure at his best ran away with the goal scoring crown. luc was a lot of things-- hard working, crafty, had great instincts in the offensive zone and always knew where to be, amazing release. but he wasn't at bure's level.
     
  8. Jules Winnfield

    Jules Winnfield Registered User

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    This is a tough question IMO.

    Luc was the best scoring LW of all time. Even though he scored a ton of goals, I really never thought of him as a sniper. He'd even probably say the same as he's said many a times he aimed for the 5 hole on almost every shot.

    As great as Bure was, I'm not sure I'd consider him a true sniper either.

    I'm just looking at shots and not the style of games both players played and I can't decide. If I had to choose a player to take on my team, I'm taking Bure. Sniping skills I'm at a standstill with both of them. Bure impacted the game much more than Luc and could just dominate games/be a constant threat.
     
  9. begbeee

    begbeee Registered User

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    Uhm, did Bure do something else or better: exactly what else did make a career for Bure?

    For me this one is really not even close.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2011
  10. CHGoalie27

    CHGoalie27 GWAAARRRRRRR

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    Bure is a top 5 goal scorer ever, if it weren't for the knees, he'd have the career goal record.
     
  11. Rorschach

    Rorschach Fearful Symmetry

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    Robitaille is the best sniper. Bure was the way better one-on-one player. If you had to choose one or the other for an on-ice fantasy team though, you'd take Bure just about every day.

    - R
     
  12. bradbirtch

    bradbirtch go leafs 1738

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    pavel bure
     
  13. Rhiessan71

    Rhiessan71 Just a Fool

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    I get confused when people use the word "sniper".

    To me, sniper means shooter and is different than goal scorer.

    For example, Yzerman was a better goalscorer than Sakic but Sakic was a better sniper.
    Same as Hull was a better sniper than Gretzky but Gretzky was a better goal scorer.

    With that in mind, Bure was a better goalscorer but Luc was a better sniper.

    At the end of the day, a player like Bure would of benefited from having a better first pass D-man over a better playmaking center imo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2011
  14. BraveCanadian

    BraveCanadian Registered User

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    I think you're right about this.. Bure generated a lot more offense off his own rushes whereas Luc put himself into areas where his center could get him the puck to score.
     
  15. tombombadil

    tombombadil Registered User

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    Thanks for correcting me, I took a better look at Luc, and you are right. Was he on a line with Bernie Nicholls and Carson for most of his early years? Even with Kurri he had it better than Pav did.

    What I just noticed looking at his stats, was that he had all of his good seasons pre-trap. 92-93 was 44 goals, i believe. His big years were in the 80's. Never got over 40 after 93, and most of the time didn't make 30.

    You guys on this site are way ahead of me, so i bet there is already a "how many goals would Pavel have scored in the 80's" thread, buuuuuut how many do you think he would have scored? Seeing he scored 60 as a kid in the years just pre-trap, and managed 59 and 58 in Florida at the lowest point of the trap, but as a veteran..... I would think Gretzky's 92 would be in danger if Pavel came around in about 82 and had Hawerchuk, Yzerman, Stastny, or some other slick center. Denis Savard, even.

    I agree with the poster who said he's top 5 alltime for goal-scoring.
     
  16. tombombadil

    tombombadil Registered User

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    ya, yo uguys are right, actually. Pav had a nice slapper, and could score plenty without being on the rush, though. But ya, a good defenseman would have given him a ton of rushing chances.
     
  17. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    They both made careers by being able to put the puck in the net. Not sure what you're questioning
     
  18. habsjunkie2*

    habsjunkie2* Guest

    I agree. I am one of few who picked luc in this poll. To me, by definition he was a better sniper.
     
  19. begbeee

    begbeee Registered User

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    You have written that scoring goals made a career for Luc. I just asked what made a career for Bure?
    Maybe just misunderstanding.
     
  20. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    Bure made a career scoring goals too. I was just stating that Robiatille was obviously great at it. I was trying to give Robitaille his due while handing the honors to Pavel.
     
  21. Jules Winnfield

    Jules Winnfield Registered User

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    Holmstrom and Tim Kerr made careers being immovable in front of the net. As many goals Kerr scored, I don't think anyone would consider him a sniper at all.

    Goals are relative as to how they're scored based on the question of the OP.
     
  22. TasteofFlames

    TasteofFlames Registered User

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    I see a sniper as a guy who has a tendency to pick corners and scores a lot of his goals by simply ripping shots over goalies' shoulders (Ilya Kovalchuk is the perfect example of how I define a sniper). By this definition, I think its pretty clear that Bure is the better sniper. IIRC, Luc scored the vast majority of his goals by being in the right spot at the right time, whether banging home a rebound or getting to open space and putting home a pass, while Bure would blow down the wing and could make a goalie look silly with a shot or a dangle.

    Now, if you are using the term "sniper" as a synonym for goalscorer, then this is an interesting debate. Bure is the better pure scorer, in that he was more able to create his own opportunities, but I believe that Robataille was the more effective scorer in terms of the team game. I maybe remembering Lucky Luc too fondly, though.
     
  23. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    And both Robitaille and Bure were great at sniping. So......

    Of course Bure could score more goals by dekeing a goalie out of his shorts.

    Robitaille was all sniper. Bure was sniper/dekeing extraordinaire.
     
  24. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    I guess once you peel away all the layers Robitaille was a sniper and nothing but, so if someone wanted to label him the better, they wouldnt be wrong. Very tough to pick here. Another boardie said bure the better pure goal scorer and Luc the sniper, that could very well be right. Youre right it does get dangerous.
     
  25. Jules Winnfield

    Jules Winnfield Registered User

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    That is why I can't make a decision in the poll.

    1) Luc's sniping skills are all based on going 5 hole all the time. He's said it so himself. Does that mean he's a sniper or just that he's really smart?

    2) Bure could score all over the place but many of his goals were based on breakaways, dekeing, and setting up to the right of the goaltender on the PP for one-timers/tap-ins.

    When I think of sniper, I usually think of someone that can rip it to the net and can beat a goaltender high/low/5-hole/corner, etc. Someone along the lines of Bossy, Hull, Lemieux, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, etc.

    Robitaille was one dimensional how he beat you but he was phenomenal at it. Bure could beat you so many ways, including ways that don't involve sniping.
     

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