Who runs the ship in the future?

[Mr Hockey]

I believe Lou's deal ends at the conclusion of this year. Dubas is only going to attract more attention so do we put him in the GM role? Extend Lou 1 more year?

Do we go outside of the organization? Dean Lombardi is a GM who's won 2 cups recently.

Dog days of summer might as well talk about something

No word of Hunter's name in the OP? ... just another pro-Dubas thread.

 

[ACC1224]

Babcock came here without Lou in place so he must have had some comfort level with Dubas.

Nill is doing a good job in Dallas, he's acquired a top line centre, a starting goalie and a top 4 defenseman in Methot who compliments Klingberg very well.

Holland is a pass for me.

It was more Babcock/ Shanahan were comfortable with each other. These are the two that run things, Lou is the buffer.

Babcock came here for a) money/term b) a large say in how the team is built/run.

B is why he will bring in someone he is comfortable with or attempt to do the job himself.
I'd be surprised if its Dubas but that could change as time passes.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

The future is the future. We don't know. There is an old saying "Yesterday is history, the future is a mystery, today is a gift that's why its called the present"

 

[WTFMAN99]

No word of Hunter's name in the OP? ... just another pro-Dubas thread.

I touched on Hunter if you read the read of the thread. I think his value is in scouting.

It was more Babcock/ Shanahan were comfortable with each other. These are the two that run things, Lou is the buffer.

Babcock came here for a) money/term b) a large say in how the team is built/run.

B is why he will bring in someone he is comfortable with or attempt to do the job himself.
I'd be surprised if its Dubas but that could change as time passes.

It makes a lot of sense, I've alluded to the same.

I think some posts are more about what the individual wishes would happen not necessarily what logically will happen.

You never PM me anymore

 

[cupcrazyman]

Mark Hunter would get my vote.

 

[ACC1224]

I touched on Hunter if you read the read of the thread. I think his value is in scouting.





You never PM me anymore

Sorry got fed up with being stalked by a few others.

I should be able now to receive from you. Send me a question

 

[PromisedLand]

Lou show no sign of slowing doing. In fact, I've heard media say he's one of the hardest working guys around.

I think Lou gets extended in some regard.

My guess is that Lou is probably going to be offered an "advisor" position similar to that of Fletcher but with more inputs in decision making with potentially Hunter taking on the role of a GM.

Dubas is good; and I thought he was being groomed with marlies responsibilities so I guess we will see how Marlies do this season.

 

[Menzinger]

Lou likely gets a small extension and then moves into an advisory role in a season or so.

Dubas is reportedly very close with shanahan and I'd say that plus his current role as AGM likely make him the next in line.

Would be very doubtful if they brought in somebody already external to the organization. Based on how Shanahan has been developing thins the Leafs seem to be a group designed for gradual promotion.

 

[Menzinger]

No word of Hunter's name in the OP? ... just another pro-Dubas thread.

People bring his name out here but you don't really see it as much in the media in terms of speculation of who replaces Lou.

Does Hunter even want the job? The guy is apparently ra rink rat and his ability to scout would be more or less gutted by taking on more responsibility.

What I see happening is that a Dubas gets the job but Hunter gets rewarded with salary raise and increased authority. The team will then continue to manage by committee as it currently does with Shanahan remaining as the top dog.

Edit: typo

 

[Pyrophorus]

At the time of Lou's hiring, it always seemed kind of mercurial, and the 3yrs, seems like just a slough off answer.

In reality, Shanny asks Lou 2x a year, if he feels like he wants to go on, and if yes, he stays. I am concerned that we could lose Dubas in the process though-but that's business.

What about Shanny's contract?

 

[The CyNick]

Dubas with no track record of success would be a disappointment for an organization of this magnitude. A garbage team in a garbage market should be taking risks like that, and we bring him in after he's proven he can make a decent trade at the NHL level.

I would be hunting whoever is thought to be the best GM in the league. Check their contract status, and figure out a succession plan between Lou and that person. In the meantime, no reason to consider moving away from Lou unless he's indicated he wants to move on.

Internally Hunter is the better choice because at least he actually run a unit of the business that has to make decisions on talent. You can more accurately judge his success or failure than a guy like Dubas who is just an analytics guy, and has been given no such authority. Plus he's far more easy to replace if you do lose him to a desperate organization.

 

[stickty111]

It should be Dubas. Contrary to popular opinion, he isnt some math or excel guy. He should be one of the main leaders of the organization when Lou decides to retires.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Wouldn't surprise me to see them just extend Lou for a year or two, during which he'll begin to defer responsibility.

 

[The CyNick]

It should be Dubas. Contrary to popular opinion, he isnt some math or excel guy. He should be one of the main leaders of the organization when Lou decides to retires.

I get people like you like him, what I can never decifer is why. Like what has he alone been responsible for in the hockey world that led to a championship?

Best I can tell he got a spot on a JR team via nepotism, and then was hired by the Leafs to make graphs and fill out paperwork on Marlies transactions.

That's the guy you want to give the reigns to run the most valuable property in the league? He might be the right guy, but I just picture getting resumes from potential candidates and trying to figure out how his would get to the top of the pile. If you're a joke of a franchise, I get it, you will have fewer qualified candidates. But we should have the pick of the litter. Why grab the runt?

 

[MagicalRazor]

I went to school with Kyle and i still talk to him , he never played hockey in his life ( well he did but lol nothing serious ) he was pretty much the water boy for sault grey hounds but he knew everything about the team & about pretty much every player in the OHL , he was obsessed with hockey he would make HF warriors look like a joke. He grew up a die heart hounds fan and did everything he could to work for them that was his dream job, after paying his dues around the rink. the hounds desperately needed a gm than someone brought kyles name up after some consideration they gave him a chance and it worked out really well for him ( i know they tried t o hire someone else 1st but they turned down the offer) . when he singed with the leafs he told me that it was as a grooming position they said he will be highly considered to make shot calls and will learn from a established GM until the day comes where it is his time to take over , as long as he is progressing and making strides into the right direction. He wouldn't tell me 100% but he kind of gave me the vibes that he has made some of the shot calls in regards to trades they have gave him the chance to be the GM to a certain degree . HE will take over the Leafs 100% , and im thinking it will be in the next 3 years

The leafs loved what he did with the hounds , and wanted him to bring that into the NHL , and see if he could do that on a higher level , im not 100% sure how much is actually him but if you look how he built the hounds it kind of looks like the same thing the leafs are doing .

i almost feel as if Lou is more of the face and the spokesman than the actually GM

 

[Menzinger]

I get people like you like him, what I can never decifer is why. Like what has he alone been responsible for in the hockey world that led to a championship?

Best I can tell he got a spot on a JR team via nepotism, and then was hired by the Leafs to make graphs and fill out paperwork on Marlies transactions.

That's the guy you want to give the reigns to run the most valuable property in the league? He might be the right guy, but I just picture getting resumes from potential candidates and trying to figure out how his would get to the top of the pile. If you're a joke of a franchise, I get it, you will have fewer qualified candidates. But we should have the pick of the litter. Why grab the runt?

If you'd like a serious answer, we really don't know what goes on behind the scenes at the Leafs beyond the tidbits we get from the media so it becomes difficult for anyone to say with certainty how effective anyone is at their jobs.

For me it's gleaning from interviews and articles what we know about Dubas' overall philosophy towards hockey management, evaluating talent, etc. He seems very progressively minded towards the game, the type of next generation thinkers who I suspect will eventually usurp the "old boys" of the league over the next 10-15 years.

I get why some folks don't care for him, but at the same time praise for Hunter also seems a bit over the top. I like him too, but so far his record with the Leafs can at best be described as "incomplete", it's not as if he has a huge tack record of success at the NHL level. We also really don't know all that much about his approach to things with the leafs beyond the fact he has a good reputation.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I get people like you like him, what I can never decifer is why. Like what has he alone been responsible for in the hockey world that led to a championship?

Best I can tell he got a spot on a JR team via nepotism, and then was hired by the Leafs to make graphs and fill out paperwork on Marlies transactions.

That's the guy you want to give the reigns to run the most valuable property in the league? He might be the right guy, but I just picture getting resumes from potential candidates and trying to figure out how his would get to the top of the pile. If you're a joke of a franchise, I get it, you will have fewer qualified candidates. But we should have the pick of the litter. Why grab the runt?

The mere fact that he's in the position he's in should give you some indication that there is something there.

Nothing in your outsider-perspective is wrong, so either our management likes have some unqualified "runt" hanging around, or there is more him than you know.

I'll presume the latter, not like it matters.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sorry got fed up with being stalked by a few others.

I should be able now to receive from you. Send me a question

Not able to still unfortunately lol.

 

[8816 others]

I do wonder how the Kessel trade would have played out if Lou was in charge at the time. The draft certainly was interesting that year with Dubas at the helm.

 

[Polaris1010]

It should be Dubas. Contrary to popular opinion, he isnt some math or excel guy. He should be one of the main leaders of the organization when Lou decides to retires.

That is the biggest knock against him, that he is associated with the math stuff.

It's Brain Burke. No team that went that route with the advanced stats has won a championship. Anywhere, in any sport.

NO one.

NFL - franchise QB and good defense
NBA - superstar players
MLB - top ERA pitching, and best batting average.
NHL - virtually the exact same blueprint since expansion from a 6 team league.

What if Dubas is appointed the Leafs GM and tries to re-invent the wheel.

It would be the Harold Ballard days all over again.

 

[The CyNick]

I went to school with Kyle and i still talk to him , he never played hockey in his life ( well he did but lol nothing serious ) he was pretty much the water boy for sault grey hounds but he knew everything about the team & about pretty much every player in the OHL , he was obsessed with hockey he would make HF warriors look like a joke. He grew up a die heart hounds fan and did everything he could to work for them that was his dream job, after paying his dues around the rink. the hounds desperately needed a gm than someone brought kyles name up after some consideration they gave him a chance and it worked out really well for him ( i know they tried t o hire someone else 1st but they turned down the offer) . when he singed with the leafs he told me that it was as a grooming position they said he will be highly considered to make shot calls and will learn from a established GM until the day comes where it is his time to take over , as long as he is progressing and making strides into the right direction. He wouldn't tell me 100% but he kind of gave me the vibes that he has made some of the shot calls in regards to trades they have gave him the chance to be the GM to a certain degree . HE will take over the Leafs 100% , and im thinking it will be in the next 3 years

The leafs loved what he did with the hounds , and wanted him to bring that into the NHL , and see if he could do that on a higher level , im not 100% sure how much is actually him but if you look how he built the hounds it kind of looks like the same thing the leafs are doing .

i almost feel as if Lou is more of the face and the spokesman than the actually GM

What did he do with the Hounds? They never won anything under his guidance.

I don't doubt he has a good mind for the game, but lots of people have that. The point is, what has he done to prove in the near term he's the right guy to lead the franchise? That's what I'm trying to get to. I've never heard a good answer to the question.

 

[The CyNick]

The mere fact that he's in the position he's in should give you some indication that there is something there.

Nothing in your outsider-perspective is wrong, so either our management likes have some unqualified "runt" hanging around, or there is more him than you know.

I'll presume the latter, not like it matters.

You can get hired for a position for a number of reasons.

I completely believe Shanny was sold on the idea of advanced analytics. He heard there's this kid who was GM of an OHL team at a young age. Shanny himself had no real track record making decisions with a hockey team, so he could have been duped or just actually believed in what Dubas was selling and maybe even saw potential in him. Remains to be seen if it was a good decision or not.

But he could have thought of Dubas as a POTENTIAL future GM, which doesn't really mean much of anything. It's like a kid being hired in a grad program at a major corporation assuming he will one day be CEO because the CEO says he liked some of his past work in his interview. A lot can happen over time, good or bad.

None of it points to Dubas being a qualified candidate to take over as GM. It doesn't mean he can't be a good choice one day, but in this type of debate, I would say the burden of proof rests on proving the candidate is qualified, and given the value of our franchise we shouldn't be just looking for qualified.

 

[DD03]

Whoever said Holland, needs to think again..

Since Nill has left Detroit, they've been in shambles.

Look at their defense and look at their cap situation.

Some of those contracts are absolutely disgusting and they have who in the system to show for it?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Whoever said Holland, needs to think again..

Since Nill has left Detroit, they've been in shambles.

Look at their defense and look at their cap situation.

Some of those contracts are absolutely disgusting and they have who in the system to show for it?

NJ was in shambles when Lou left, yet Lou has done great here

So why couldn't Holland do a good job ?

Now I want Lou extended but this idea that Holland couldn't replace him is ridiculous people said the same things about Lou that they are now saying about Holland and It's ridiculous

 

[Trapper]

You have to know where your team is and where it needs to go when deciding on a GM.
Some GMs are better at building from the ground up.

Some GMs are better at managing an existing core but consistently finding the pieces that work when placed around that core.

Some GMs are better at adding the final pieces that take you to the Cup.

Some GMs are better at creating the proper culture or environment.

Some are better with young guys, some like vets only.
These things are important.