Those who say lidstrom didnt deserve his trophies didnt watch him in the 90s when he lost two norris trophies, one was pure robbery by blake who had no business winning. He also was highly involved turning red wings around.
I have been watching since 1980. And support Lidstrom in most arguments. But not against Bourque.
Nobody is ever going to dispute that he was one of the wings most important players.
But every thread of "Yzerman vs Sakic", people chime "They would never have won the cup without Yzerman. The man is amazing and one of the greatest ever".
"Scotty Bowman is the greatest coach and hockey mind of all time."
Babcock is heralded at one of the greatest of this generation.
In every Fedorov vs XXXX thread, "Fedorov's clutch playoff play and Selke caliber two way play was crucial to the cups!"
This is also said about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
"Shanahan was the missing piece of sandpaper they needed"
"Draper's Selke caliber play gave the wings the depth they needed down the middle. He is better than Lehtonen!"
"Konstantinov was amazing and gave the blueline a solid top 4. If he had not been in that accident, he probably wins a Norris trophie or two"
"Chelios still has it. At age 40 with no PP time, he is runner up for norris and has an argument that he should have won with his incredible 5 on 5 play and PK abilities"
Note that a much younger Chelios was much better at 30 than he was that year.
And yes, everyone says the same about Lidstrom.
You know what is true in those statements? Almost all of it.
At what point are people going to stop pretending like Bourque had an identical situation to Lidstrom that he just could not capitalize on?
So let's not pretend it was a one man show and that Bourque should have done the same thing with a much weaker Boston squad lacking Hockey Hall of famers.
In his early years they had some incredible forwards on the top line, but not the depth on the 2nd lines or at D to beat the Dynasty Isles team.
In his mid-late 80's years, A team routinely having top forward scorers with 70 points in the 80's at a time most contending teams had 120+ point forwards, and players like Ken Linesman on the 2nd line. We could get into how soft Janney was in contrast to how excellent Neely was, but that has been done 100 times.
Instead let's do Neely vs Shanahan in a poll. That one will be close aye?
Ok, moving on to Centers, 1988 style. Since the wings had two #1 C's, I have a hard time pairing these matchups
Yzerman vs Ken the rat Linesman. What? That poll was closed in 5 minutes after going 150 to 2, with the 2 being accident presses? Shucks.
Ok, how about Fedorov vs Steve Kaspar? What? Same thing?
Kaspar and Linseman combined for 144 points as the top 2 scoring bruins forwards. For reference, the 4th and 5th highest scoring members of the Dynasty Oilers group that beat them combined to score 162 points. For further reference, Gretzky and Messier in 19 playoff games each combined for 77 points that year. I am a bit baffled as to how Bourque ended those playoffs at +16 playing 28-30 minutes a night or more.
The Shameful thing is, this is when the bruins were considered to have depth.
Kozlov or Larionov vs Courtnall or Randy Burridge ? That's actually a bit closer. But not really.
Defense.....Konstantinov or, Larry Murphy or 40 year old Norris runner up Chellios against Gord Kluzak, Glen Wesley or, Michal Thelven or Barry pedersen or ready to retire at -135 Reed Larson........
Derp
You are right, I would certainly take a 38 year old Fetisov over half of those guys. Maybe not over Wesley. But Wesley falls well below the others.
Ok. Should I skip Osgood, Vernon or Hasek vs Reggie Lemelin?
Coach O'Reilly vs Bowman or Babcock?
Ugh, better move on to 1990.
Oh this is much better!
Yzerman vs Janney? Closed....
Fedorov vs 46 point in the high scoring era Bob Sweeney? Closed
Shanahan vs Neely is about the same, although Neely was more of a beast here.
Kozlov vs Carpenter is actually close!
Defense has changed a bit! Wesley still there and we know where he stands as a #2 compared to the wings #2-4. And he is joined by......Garry galley? Greg Hawgood? OH a Rookie Don Sweeney. At least he matches well with Fetisov.
Moog! ok, he was a pretty darn good goalie and it is a bit closer there.
Milbury vs Bowman or Babcock.....
Let's move on to the early 90's.......
Ill skip the year the Bruins were beating the Penguins in the series 2-0 and Neely had 16 goals in 16 games before being kneed into ineffectiveness game 3(Which ruined his career) and the whole locker caught the flu during the series. Let's think about how I feel going to work at a regular job with the flu a minute. Now try to talk me into playing a competitive contact sport at the highest level.....
We could of course hold a competitive poll for 2nd line C Ken Hodge vs Fedorov and redo Yzerman vs Janney, but why bother?
Defense also looks much the same.
Milbury vs Babcock or Bowman......
Moving on a little later in the 90's.
OATES! SWEET. Shame this is when the Bruins truly became a 1 line team and they lost the incredible depth of Carpenter/Burridge/Courtnall types.. Terrific top line tho even though Neely was almost always sitting out.
Juneau had a smoking start to his career for 1 year didn't he? Shame his point totals and skills decided to catch the Clap.
I still remember thinking "Wow, they got Iafrate! Some depth at D". If the internet had existed then as it does today, its likely the Bruins never trade for him knowing his career was done and his knees were shot. The whole 12 games he played for them.
That kind of concludes the years the Bruins were competitive.
Its tempting to do some Ted Donato, Josef Stumpel and Jason Allison vs Datsyuk and Zetterberg to illustrate the later parts of careers for comparison or play musical goalies with Jim Carey, Jon Casey, Blaine Lacher, Robbie Tallas or Byron Dafoe (or even the skeleton of Bill Ranford)
In fact, I am pretty sure Datsyuk and Zetterberg clean up nicely vs Linesman, Janney, Kaspar and Hodge too.
Instead of transplanting the whole team, Just pretend you are replacing the Centers(Yzerman/Fedorov/Datsyuk/Zetterberg with Janney, Hodge, Kaspar, Linesman etc) and tell me how confident you are going head to head with the 80's Oilers.
Yeah, those situations are nothing alike.
