Who owned the "Best player in the World" title since the Wayne/Mario era

[daver]

A years grace lol

Anyways McDavid is the best player in the league since 2016-17

What about before 16/17?

 

[Gains]

2006-07 Crosby
2007-2010 Ovechkin
2010-11 Crosby
2011-12 Malkin
2012-2017 Crosby

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

Proabably Jagr. Modern day Howe in terms of longevity and was an absolute force at his peak and prime. Could also make a case for Crosby depending on how heavily you weight playoff success and how much credit from 2010 to 2013 where he dominated regular season ppg but played less than 100 rs games and 3 playoff rounds. Also HM to Ovechkin who was arguably at a higher level than Crosby through much of their primes.

If you look outside offense have to give HMs to Lidstrom and Brodeur.

 

[DitchMarner]

I don't think it's that, I think Jagr has just been underrated his entire career. He won 5 of 7 Art Ross trophies from 1994 to 2001, and he would have won a 6th with the year he had 149 points had it been in any other year (Lemieux won with 161 points). He had by far the most points of any player from 1994-2001, with having 155 more points in 7 less games than the #2 scorer of that time (Teemu Selanne). Despite that, he won 1 Hart in those 7 years. I think he has always just been underrated, he deserved at least 3 or 4 Harts over that time and I think people would look upon him better had that happened. It was just some bull**** by the Hart voters, where they loved good old Canadian boys (Lindros, Sakic, Pronger, even Lemieux) over some European scorer.

Here's some proof for how much bull**** Hart voting was in the late 90s and early 2000s: Lemieux had more Hart votes in 2000-2001 than Jagr, despite Jagr winning the Art Ross trophy and Lemieux playing in only 43 games. Jagr had 45 more points than Lemieux, but since Lemieux was a legend and what he did was so impressive, he got more Hart votes than Jagr did. In that year, Jagr got 0 1st place votes despite leading the NHL with 121 points, and Sakic got 53 of 62 1st place votes with 118 points.

It's less problematic now than it was then, but I firmly believe there is a Canadian bias among award voting in the NHL.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/was-jaromir-jagr-generational.2401743/

 

[DitchMarner]

If the playoffs and international play aren't included, Ovechkin was clearly better than Crosby from 2007-2010, and I personally would say he was better in each season during that stretch, although an argument can be made for Crosby in 2009-2010 due to the games played discrepancy.

If the playoffs are included, I suppose you can put Crosby up there with him during that period.

Really, though, are the playoffs generally included when talking about who the best player is? I mean, Gretzky was on another level in the RS from '81-'83 and he didn't win the Cup during that period while Trottier/Potvin/Bossy won three. Would anyone say he was equal to one of these guys from '81-'83?

Similarly, if the playoffs are included, you can put Crosby at the top in 2016 and 2017 even though Kane clearly outperformed him in 2016 and McDavid had a better season in 2017. I would say Price was the best player in 2014-2015 - if you include the 2015 playoffs, I suppose he still was.

You can argue Crosby has been the best since 2014-2015 even though he hasn't been the best player in any particular regular season since 2014 (in my opinion anyway) because he was consistently closer to being the best player more often than anyone was during that stretch. If you include the playoffs, his case is boosted.

I think Crosby's "grace period" works within reason. If he finishes outside of the top five in scoring and McDavid wins the Ross again, Connor will be the best, period (if only the RS is considered when evaluating the best player at least).

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

two threads with a lot of good discussion on this topic:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/best-player-in-the-world.973915/

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/best-player-in-the-game-at-every-point-in-history.1358889/

 

[Tom Polakis]

Clearly the winner for 1975-76 was Bobby Orr. He played in only 10 games, but just look at his numbers for the previous season!

 

[ThirdManIn]

Why should it not be based year to year? No need to answer. Lol

Right? At times it seems based on a single season, and at other times it seems based on (Crosby's) body of work.

 

[Plural]

Solid daver thread. 9/10 replies are about how f***ing biased your list is and 1/10 is just basically "lol". Nice job getting the dicussion going. You still claim to be unbiased or reasonable?

 

[Terry Yake]

late 90s: Jagr
2000-2005: Sakic/Forsberg
2005-2010: Ovechkin
2010-2016: Crosby
2016-: McDavid/Kucherov

 

[daver]

Solid daver thread. 9/10 replies are about how ****ing biased your list is and 1/10 is just basically "lol". Nice job getting the dicussion going. You still claim to be unbiased or reasonable?

I guess the HOH members are pretty darn biased and unreasonable considering their list is even more Crosby oriented than mine.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/best-player-in-the-world.973915/

And notice how those posters never put up a list of their own.

 

[daver]

If the playoffs and international play aren't included, Ovechkin was clearly better than Crosby from 2007-2010, and I personally would say he was better in each season during that stretch, although an argument can be made for Crosby in 2009-2010 due to the games played discrepancy.

If the playoffs are included, I suppose you can put Crosby up there with him during that period.

Really, though, are the playoffs generally included when talking about who the best player is? I mean, Gretzky was on another level in the RS from '81-'83 and he didn't win the Cup during that period while Trottier/Potvin/Bossy won three. Would anyone say he was equal to one of these guys from '81-'83?

I don't think this comparison makes any sense. Not only were they not close to Wayne in the regular, it's not about simply winning the Cup, it's about individual performances too.

 

[eviohh26]

2006-2009 Datsyuk was the best player everytime he stepped onto the ice. Imo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/was-jaromir-jagr-generational.2401743/

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? I can't tell

There were people in that thread saying that Jagr isn't generational, which really proves my point in that he's underrated. He has been underrated his entire career.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Auston Matthews since September 17, 1997

AINEC

 

[TheAngryHank]

Checks OPs name
Legit thread.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Pretty demeaning to not give Crosby 87 years of grace as the league's best player. Seriously though what the f*** was that

 

[Keeptdos]

2006-2009 Datsyuk was the best player everytime he stepped onto the ice. Imo.

This, he wasn't the scoring machine of Ovechkin or Crosby, but he dominated with puck control. He shut down the best and still scored.

 

[Plural]

This, he wasn't the scoring machine of Ovechkin or Crosby, but he dominated with puck control. He shut down the best and still scored.

Probably the best all-around hockey player I've ever seen. I hear Fedorov was pretty awesome at his best too but didn't see much of him.

 

[TheAngryHank]

This, he wasn't the scoring machine of Ovechkin or Crosby, but he dominated with puck control. He shut down the best and still scored.

The shutdown argument only works for controler disconnect Crosby.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Probably the best all-around hockey player I've ever seen. I hear Fedorov was pretty awesome at his best too but didn't see much of him.

Picture a Datysuk who was the best skater the NHL had ever seen.

 

[hockeykicker]

2007-2008	WSH	82	65	47	112	28	40	22	37	0	0	11	2	446	14.6	38.89
2008-2009	WSH	79	56	54	110	8	72	19	46	1	1	10	2	528	10.6	25
2009-2010	WSH	72	50	59	109	45	89	13	36	0	0	7	0	368	13.6	45.45

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2007-2008	WSH	7	4	5	9	-1	0	1	6	0	0	2	0	37	10.8	0
2008-2009	WSH	14	11	10	21	10	8	3	8	0	0	1	0	90	12.2	66.67
2009-2010	WSH	7	5	5	10	5	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	34	14.7	50

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

vs

2007-2008	PIT	53	24	48	72	18	39	6	27	0	1	4	0	173	13.9	51.41
2008-2009	PIT	77	33	70	103	3	76	7	40	0	1	3	1	238	13.9	51.33
2009-2010	PIT	81	51	58	109	15	71	13	34	2	3	6	1	298	17.1	55.89

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2007-2008	PIT	20	6	21	27	7	12	2	14	0	0	1	0	59	10.2	48.95
2008-2009	PIT	24	15	16	31	9	14	5	10	0	0	2	0	79	19	53.02
2009-2010	PIT	13	6	13	19	6	6	1	9	0	0	1	0	41	14.6	55.96

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

things to point out:

2009-10. crosby had 51 goals (yes good) but ovechkin had 1 goal less in 72 games,
ovechkin basically has crosby total playoff goals in the first series (4 goals in 7 games in 07-08, crosby 6 goals in 20 games) (11 goals in 14 games vs crosby 15 goals in 25 games in 08-09) (5 goals in 7 games vs crosby 6 goals in 13 games in 09-10)

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Let's see your list then.

There's absolutely no point in posting my own list because you are quite the acrobat when it comes to twisting points in any way to prop Crosby.

For example: McDavid vs Crosby. People mention PPG for McDavid, but you automatically dismiss it.

Then in another thread, for I think this season, you were using PPG for Crosby as an argument.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Probably the best all-around hockey player I've ever seen. I hear Fedorov was pretty awesome at his best too but didn't see much of him.

yeah as great as Datsyuk was at his best, he's still not on Fedorov's level. it's like he was created in a lab to be the perfect hockey player

 

[MoeBartoli]

While solid arguments can be made for Crosby, Ovi and even Jagr, the difficulty is that none of these three are as good or clear cut as Gretzky or Mario.