Prospect Info: Who is Canucks #11 prospect?

[Icebreakers]

Fun fact: In the last decade, the only player to score more goals in a season in the OHL than Dane Fox is John Tavarres.

(Although Tavarres scored 8 more goals, was younger, and probably played less games, but facts can't ruin the hype train.)

Cant believe Tavares did that as a 16/17 year old...

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

Cole Cassels

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Darren Archibald leads Darren Archibald 1-0

 

[Numbers]

How would people categorize our prospects groups in terms quality/value?

Tier A - High End 1st Rounders
1. Horvat
2. Virtanen
3. Shinkaruk

Tier B - 1st Round
4. Jensen
5. Gaunce
6. McCann

Tier C - NHL experience/ready to step in
7. Corrado
8. Vey

Tier D - High Level of Play non-1st rounders
9. Hutton
10. Demko
11. Tryamkin
12. Fox
13. Cassels

 

[Serac]

How has no one talked about Anton Cederholm yet ?

 

[Verviticus]

hes underwhelming and might struggle to be an ahl regular let alone touch the nhl

 

[701]

How would people categorize our prospects groups in terms quality/value?

Tier A - High End 1st Rounders
1. Horvat
2. Virtanen
3. Shinkaruk

Tier B - 1st Round
4. Jensen
5. Gaunce
6. McCann

Tier C - NHL experience/ready to step in
7. Corrado
8. Vey

Tier D - High Level of Play non-1st rounders
9. Hutton
10. Demko
11. Tryamkin
12. Fox
13. Cassels

Interesting way to look at it. Missing McEneny and Subban from Tier D.

 

[Yossarian54]

How has no one talked about Anton Cederholm yet ?

u wot m8?

 

[biturbo19]

Interesting way to look at it. Missing McEneny and Subban from Tier D.

McEneny maybe. And that's a longshot.

Subban is just a longshot. It sucks because he's a great prospect in everything other than the fact that he's a few inches too short.

He might make it against all odds. I sincerely hope he does. But there are reasons you can't name more than one current NHL defenceman 5'9" or less. And he plays a sheltered role on a blueline featuring the very biggest defenceman in the NHL.

Jordan Subban isn't just 5'9" either...he's a very "compact" 5'9" much like his older superstar brother is a very "compact 6ft". It's a very uphill battle, unfortunately. And for me...that very much weighs into my assessment of prospects.

 

[alternate]

Gave it to the Big Try. With his size and mobility and already playing in the 2nd best men's league in the world, the only way he doesn't play some games in the NHL is if he doesn't come over.

And if he does come over, his upside is unlimited.

Eriksson gets severely devalued for me simply because he's sandwiched on the depth chart between the guy being groomed to take over for Miller in 2/3 years, and the guy who will be expected to take over for that guy. He provides value as organizational depth, but as a "prospect" I don't see it likely that he stays with the organization long enough to help the big club, and don't expect we'd get much back in a trade.

Should Friesen be added? He had a strong finish to his season. How about Rodin? We still own his rights, correct? Signed for 2 years in Sweden, scored 35 points in 47 games in year 1. If he comes back over after that contract, he'll be 25 and more physically developed. I don't think he should be written off.

 

[Blue Suede Shoes]

Good choice IMO. Fox has one outstanding skill, and also has very good grit, decent size, decent defense, needs to become more fit, and needs lots of work on his choppy skating stride. Positives and negatives. But the runaway OHL goal-scoring crown wasn't from smoke and mirrors. Fox's shooting and scoring are pretty rare talents, and at this *very late* point in the prospect rankings it's LOL-worthy to discount their great potential value to our goal-starved organization. For those who put down his scoring feats to playing against kids, it may come as news that Fox is only 5 months older than Gaunce, which is less than the age difference between Shinkaruk and Horvat, who were drafted together without notable comment about their age difference.

This isn't the top-10 or anything. For a guy with Fox's attributes who's just about to turn pro and either sink or swim,
there's risk to be sure--yes he could bust--but he could also fill the net while providing toughness. What's not to like about him, this far down in the ratings?

This is a really good point. Most prospects that go on to be impact players in the NHL have at least one elite skill. I think Fox has that. I really like Cassels, but I'll take Fox here.

 

[Ozone]

 

[Blue Suede Shoes]

I also like Eriksson. He had a pretty solid year on a generally poor team. Next year is really big for him. (How sage- as if every year is not important for every prospect - but still). We at least no how he is doing at the pro level; it will take Demko likely another 4+ years to reach that point. And He's doing pretty well, all things considering.

 

[Velociraptor]

What ever became of Patrick McNally? Haven't heard much about the guy since he got kicked out of school for cheating...

 

[Proto]

Jordan Subban isn't just 5'9" either...he's a very "compact" 5'9" much like his older superstar brother is a very "compact 6ft". It's a very uphill battle, unfortunately. And for me...that very much weighs into my assessment of prospects.

You're using the fact that he's heavy/strong against him? Haha.

Subban has the reach of a 6'5/6'6 man. He's the opposite of "compact" in the functional sense.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

What ever became of Patrick McNally? Haven't heard much about the guy since he got kicked out of school for cheating...

He's still playing for Harvard.

 

[deckercky]

Voted Cassels, but it was close between him, Fox and Tryamkin. Voted Cassels. I actually think Fox has the least chance of the three of making the NHL as a regular, though if he performs in training camp and in the AHL, that assessment will very quickly change.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Voted Cassels, but it was close between him, Fox and Tryamkin. Voted Cassels. I actually think Fox has the least chance of the three of making the NHL as a regular, though if he performs in training camp and in the AHL, that assessment will very quickly change.

Let's see here. Name one Canuck that has a better release on their shot on our current roster. Vrbata. Jensen maybe. If he can improve his acceleration and footwork he's an NHL'er.

 

[cc]

still no jeremie blain on the list I see.

 

[MS]

Let's see here. Name one Canuck that has a better release on their shot on our current roster. Vrbata. Jensen maybe. If he can improve his acceleration and footwork he's an NHL'er.

Yeah, that's the push-pull with Fox.

His shot is absolutely elite and will be elite by NHL standards (loads better than Jensen, for the record).

But the flipside is that his skating is very choppy and will be below-average by NHL standards.

If his game quickly transitions to the AHL, he'll absolutely rocket up the rankings for me because he shot gives him a ton of NHL upside. If he can't handle the pace ... then not so much.

Stepping up to the AHL is always the great separator where you see who sinks and who swims after everybody looks great at lower levels. With so many guys hitting that level this year, we're going to see a couple guys who meet expectations and a couple who fall like stones.

 

[Proto]

Yeah, that's the push-pull with Fox.

His shot is absolutely elite and will be elite by NHL standards (loads better than Jensen, for the record).

But the flipside is that his skating is very choppy and will be below-average by NHL standards.

If his game quickly transitions to the AHL, he'll absolutely rocket up the rankings for me because he shot gives him a ton of NHL upside. If he can't handle the pace ... then not so much.

Stepping up to the AHL is always the great separator where you see who sinks and who swims after everybody looks great at lower levels. With so many guys hitting that level this year, we're going to see a couple guys who meet expectations and a couple who fall like stones.

You'd have to think as long as Fox can become a third-line level skater in the NHL, his shot might allow him to play. He'd provide nice secondary utility on the powerplay, but his skating could mean he's a harder player to match to his linemates.

 

[deckercky]

You'd have to think as long as Fox can become a third-line level skater in the NHL, his shot might allow him to play. He'd provide nice secondary utility on the powerplay, but his skating could mean he's a harder player to match to his linemates.

Third liners in the NHL are generally very good skaters. There's exceptions, but by and large, third liners tend to have at least average size and at least average skating, since they bear a lot of defensive responsibility. I think top 6 players can actually deal with weaker skating than third liners, who tend to get very difficult minutes defensively.

 

[Canuckz]

This is a really good point. Most prospects that go on to be impact players in the NHL have at least one elite skill. I think Fox has that. I really like Cassels, but I'll take Fox here.

Benning seems to think so as well. I'm amazed at how many people on here think he doesn't have much of a chance and toss in the "overager" descriptive whenever possible. Him being a bit older also gives him an edge. His prove you wrong focal point is another plus. The Canucks media team seem to also think he's a character, as he's had easily the most media exposure at the prospect camp than anyone else. Canucks new motto is character guys, Fox seems like a sure fit.

I think if he works really hard at his skating "ala Booth" he has a fantastic chance of making the team. He has a "great" shot, there are not that many guys on the team right now that have a great shot. The other lost item is he racked up points in the playoffs as well. 19 points in 14 playoff games this year is nothing to sneeze at. Don't care if he's overage or not.

Benning Quote:

“He’s a hard-nosed guy. He’ll go to the tough areas that you need to go to score. He’ll pay the price to score goals,†said Benning.

“He still needs work to do off the ice to get in good physical condition. His skating, his first two steps need to continue to get better, but he can score so if he does those other things, he should be a good scorer for us.â€

 

[medhatcanuck]

What ever became of Patrick McNally? Haven't heard much about the guy since he got kicked out of school for cheating...

Group Academic Misconduct with a few other teammates for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal

Freshman Season: Played full season, this season is why everyone was excited. Rookie all star team, 3rd all team.

Sophmore Season: Played a few games, academic misconduct happened, taken off the roster.

Junior Season: Played 20 games, haven't heard much about his junior season. 8 points in 20 games (junior) opposed to 28 points in 34 games (freshman). He is supposed to be Mike Green so this is why offence is important. Not All-Team or anythign.

So after his Freshman Season, he was a toss-up of whether not he could do it again, he really pooped the bed by being involved in academic misconduct. Didn't have a Sophmore season, and has seemingly regressed in Junior Season.

Luckily, he still has 1 more year of eligibility and can play his Senior Season before the Canucks can decide whether or not to sign the guy. I'm not really sure at what point the Nucks have to make the decision. I'm guessing Canucks may let him walk as we have Subban and Hutton, and the whole character thing. He's too old for major junior and it would be really risky for Nucks to sign him after his last 2 seasons*.

In arguement for McNally, it was a large scale academic misconduct and he wasn't 1 of 3 people who got caught, it was large-scale (250ish?), so it was him being a sheep, but as a potential pro athelete they are held to a higher standard. The fact that he goes to Harvard is also quite an asset. His environment has shown him how he should act and what it takes to be great at something.

If I'm Benning, I test his character and still sign him if he has a good season either 1) Exceeds his Rookie season point totals, or 2) Relied upon as #1D for harvard, then i sign him. Otherwise let him sign elsewhere.

He was essentially Ben Hutton of 2 years ago.