Who Inherited a Better/Worse Team: Chia or Sweeney?

[JOKER 192]

I'll take Chia's option, he was able to get right to work building his team while Sweeney will have to burn a few years just mopping up Chia's mess.

Chia was also able to exploit his Ottawa connection while Sweeney has no such option and wouldn't be able use it even if it was available due to lack of cap space.

 

[Era of Sanity]

For those who think Chia inherited a better situation, consider what that team "accomplished" before Julien became coach.

A 76 point season with Tim Thomas in goal. 29th in goals against. Bergeron -28, Chara -21, Marco Sturm -24.

The addition of Chara & Savard improved the team by 2 points, though they lost more games than the previous season. The team Chia had that first year lost more games than all other Bruins teams since 1967, except for 1997 Tank for Thornton team.

Without a doubt the current roster is better than the 2006-07 roster (which was compounded by the botched hiring of Lewis). Where, in hindsight, Chiarelli inherited a good situation is that he had a prospect pool that included Krejci, Lucic, Marchand, I doubt the Bruins have a better prospect pool now, plus Chiarelli inherited capspace, Sweeney inherits cap issues.

 

[Kalus]

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the vast difference in the team's reputation between then and now.

We all remember what the league's players thought of the Bruins back then. Coming off the heels of the Sinden era and all the mgmt/player antagonistic crap that went on for so many years, Jacobs' prominent role in the lockout was still fresh in everyones' minds.

Just look at the players Chiarelli had to go the scrap heap for to fill out the roster. Tenkrat, mowers, Slegr etc.

Of course, being able to spend to the cap plays a big part of this, but you have to recognize that he turned the team's reputation around and made Boston a place where players wanted to go. This was one of his top two stated goals when he took over and he certainly accomplished that goal.

Sweeney has the benefit of taking over an organization that is a sought after destination across the league.

 

[ODAAT]

Chia inherited a far worse roster

Sweeney inherited a stronger roster but worse cap situation

The roster below was and is absolute garbage and possibly one of the worst lineups I ever watched toss a spoked B on their backs


http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BOS/2007.html

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the vast difference in the team's reputation between then and now.

We all remember what the league's players thought of the Bruins back then. Coming off the heels of the Sinden era and all the mgmt/player antagonistic crap that went on for so many years, Jacobs' prominent role in the lockout was still fresh in everyones' minds.

Just look at the players Chiarelli had to go the scrap heap for to fill out the roster. Tenkrat, mowers, Slegr etc.

Of course, being able to spend to the cap plays a big part of this, but you have to recognize that he turned the team's reputation around and made Boston a place where players wanted to go. This was one of his top two stated goals when he took over and he certainly accomplished that goal.

Sweeney has the benefit of taking over an organization that is a sought after destination across the league.

And since Chara & Savard were signed (in those dark days when no one wanted to play in Boston, by the way) how many free agents have jump at the chance to play for the current Bruins?

 

[ODAAT]

And since Chara & Savard were signed (in those dark days when no one wanted to play in Boston, by the way) how many free agents have jump at the chance to play for the current Bruins?

I see (and agree) with what your saying Dennis but there`s another factor we need to recognize and that`s when it came time to retain Bruins which Chia aquired whether via trade, or extend a player, not many were racing for the doors to escape town which left his "needs" when it came time in the summer to be less than other teams potentially might have had and THAT, to me was a pleasant change in comparison to years past where it was contract squabble after contract squabble

He rarely spent a nickel in the off season as he often didn`t have to or felt he didn`t need to (we can argue if he was correct). Now, in hindsight, he was far too loyal and perhaps should have allowed a few players to move on or trade them but..

 

[kytem2]

If you could start over with that core that Chia inherited, you should be able to win at least 2 Cups.

This is the CORE that Chia inherited:

Prime Savard, Chara, Sturm, Thomas. 19-21 year old Bergeron, Rask, Krejci and just drafted Kessel/Lucic/Marchand.

Thoughts?

Given your premise, the Bruins should have won a Cup every season -- so 7 or 8. Why just 2 ?

 

[JOKER 192]

Chia didn't get that there are many shinny things in the world not just the ones that you have . Many of the players Chia awarded with overpaid contracts could have been replaced with cheaper options able to do equal work.

 

[Kalus]

And since Chara & Savard were signed (in those dark days when no one wanted to play in Boston, by the way) how many free agents have jump at the chance to play for the current Bruins?

Iginla was the only star who came in as a true FA. However, all UFAs but Horton (many reports hint at this being a personal matter) re-signed when offered the opportunity to do so. They all want to stay here. Players like Ference, Thornton, Campbell, Paille etc were very disappointed that they were left to walk.

You're being obtuse if you are suggesting there hasn't been a marked change in the players' desire to be a Bruin.

 

[The Special K]

Not close. Chia by a mile. Inherited a worse club, that is. There was no structure, no winning culture, etc.

yep. I think that people forget that for all this current team's struggles....they almost made the playoffs and hell....they had like what 96 points?

Yeah, Sweeny has a lot to work with....he has some work to do, but he has a solid core to build around.

PC had very little talent compared to what Sweens is starting off with.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Iginla was the only star who came in as a true FA. However, all UFAs but Horton (many reports hint at this being a personal matter) re-signed when offered the opportunity to do so. They all want to stay here. Players like Ference, Thornton, Campbell, Paille etc were very disappointed that they were left to walk.

You're being obtuse if you are suggesting there hasn't been a marked change in the players' desire to be a Bruin.

Seriously? Wow.

Sorry but Boston is now a hockey destination. That's a fact. That it hasn't happened a ton is more the product of cap space. But Boston is considered one of THE places to come play now. You won't find it on any of the lists of players partial NMC's.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Given your premise, the Bruins should have won a Cup every season -- so 7 or 8. Why just 2 ?

Poor execution on deadline day by Chia (his worst day every year). We should have won in 2013 but instead of going for it and picking up more depth (like the other contenders were) Chia picked up Daugavins *FROM WAIVERS* after everyone else passed on him. In a series that was basically all 1 goal OT games, that was a killer. We had the team to win again last year but, again, didn't pick up any help at the deadline to push us over the top while the Habs went out and targeted a Bruins killer. Keep Seguin and we are an annual contender. Starting with that dominant core we had where everyone was either in the prime or pre-prime, we should have won more than 1 Cup. LA won 2 with an 8th seed team, we had a dominant core that Chia inherited and should have done more with.

 

[kytem2]

Poor execution on deadline day by Chia (his worst day every year). We should have won in 2013 but instead of going for it and picking up more depth (like the other contenders were) Chia picked up Daugavins *FROM WAIVERS* after everyone else passed on him. In a series that was basically all 1 goal OT games, that was a killer. We had the team to win again last year but, again, didn't pick up any help at the deadline to push us over the top while the Habs went out and targeted a Bruins killer. Keep Seguin and we are an annual contender. Starting with that dominant core we had where everyone was either in the prime or pre-prime, we should have won more than 1 Cup. LA won 2 with an 8th seed team, we had a dominant core that Chia inherited and should have done more with.

There is too much luck involved in hockey these days...the Bruins were damned lucky to win even 1 Cup let alone 2.

Even the Orr / Esposito Bruins only won 2 Cups in the 12/14 team NHL days where you basically had to beat 1 decent team to make the Finals, and when skill actually was guaranteed to win you games.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Iginla was the only star who came in as a true FA. However, all UFAs but Horton (many reports hint at this being a personal matter) re-signed when offered the opportunity to do so. They all want to stay here. Players like Ference, Thornton, Campbell, Paille etc were very disappointed that they were left to walk.

You're being obtuse if you are suggesting there hasn't been a marked change in the players' desire to be a Bruin.

Man, I hate that word. Obtuse. I always thought it was a triangle. But one New England jailbird uses it in a movie and now I have to figure out what it really means.

Anyway, I guess my point was that player happiness is way overblown. The players (like Chara & Savard) go where the money is, for the most part. Also, its odd that Sinden didn't really lose any of the players that were worth keeping. They stayed and produced, happy or not.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I see (and agree) with what your saying Dennis but there`s another factor we need to recognize and that`s when it came time to retain Bruins which Chia aquired whether via trade, or extend a player, not many were racing for the doors to escape town which left his "needs" when it came time in the summer to be less than other teams potentially might have had and THAT, to me was a pleasant change in comparison to years past where it was contract squabble after contract squabble

He rarely spent a nickel in the off season as he often didn`t have to or felt he didn`t need to (we can argue if he was correct). Now, in hindsight, he was far too loyal and perhaps should have allowed a few players to move on or trade them but..

Because they were all overpaid.

Wasn't that the biggest problem for Chia?

 

[Marchy63]

You can't compare the situations and say that Chia had a better core because players like Krejci, Marchand, Rask, Kessel and Lucic were completley unknown at that time. For all we had known those players could have completely busted and its not like they had a good group of veteran guys that could have stepped up if that happened. All we can say with any real certainty is that Chia had a better cap situation than Sweeney has now.

Sweeney has a much better team than Chia had in year one and I would have to say that Sweeney has a better coach than Chia had in year one. Right now we don't know if Smith, Connolly, Spooner, Koko, Morrow, Trotman, Subban, MacIntyre, Pasta, etc are going to be. For all we know they all end up being better than Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Marchand and Rask. Sweeney may not have the cap room that Chiarelli had when he started, but he my not need it either.

 

[Kaoz]

If you could start over with that core that Chia inherited, you should be able to win at least 2 Cups.

This is the CORE that Chia inherited:

Prime Savard, Chara, Sturm, Thomas. 19-21 year old Bergeron, Rask, Krejci and just drafted Kessel/Lucic/Marchand.

Throw in DRAFTS, FAgency and TRADES that every GM gets to do and you should be winning a couple Cups with that CORE. We look back at the roster that Chia got originally and, yes, they were not that good. But there were some amazing pieces in place --that were the CORE for winning the Cup in 2011.

We have the same CORE today, but now they are much, much older (in hockey terms) and they are all making way more $ than in their youth.

I'd rather start with what Chia had and win a couple Cups.

Thoughts?

To be fair, there was 5 years between the team Chia inherited and the one that won the cup. At that point Boston was at it's lowest perception wise as it had been in quite some time (and that's saying something). How much did Chia have to do with the draft, can you truly say he inherited guys like Chara, Savard, Kessel, Lucic, and Marchand? I wouldn't, I wasn't his biggest fan but there is more then enough reason Chia had his hand in all those picks and signings. Boston isn't going to go to the trouble of bringing him in then allowing their temporary asst GM to build the team before he even gets here, not without some input from the man.

http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2013/02/does_peter_chiarelli_get_enoug.html

In the same span, Chara -- whom Chiarelli knew well from Ottawa and absolutely coveted -- Marc Savard, Shean Donovan and Mark Mowers were signed, while the Maple Leafs were mined for the first time, accepting Andrew Raycroft for prospect Tuukka Rask.

How much of that was his doing? In discussing the moves the occurred during his purgatory, Chiarelli told the Globe in July 2006, "Let's just say what I set forth was very specific."

The core Chia truly inherited imo was Bergeron, Boyes, Murray, Axe, Stuart, Thomas and Raycroft with prospects like Karsums, Versteeg, Kalus and Krejci.

He turned that into a cup winner.

Sweeney is inheriting the far better core in my opinion, more aged and higher paid or not. A lot of this core still holds big time value (Chara, Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, etc...). No reason he can't deal with the cap issues and return value as well. Chia wasn't perfect, not in the least (Seguin and Kessel trades were Thornton'esque), but he performed a miracle when he was here.

 

[RustyBruins72]

I agree with DKH, I think DS inherited the best team, today.

But in terms of core and future, PC could be set up for a good cup run window in the next 3 - 8 years.

 

[DKH]

To be fair, there was 5 years between the team Chia inherited and the one that won the cup. At that point Boston was at it's lowest perception wise as it had been in quite some time (and that's saying something). How much did Chia have to do with the draft, can you truly say he inherited guys like Chara, Savard, Kessel, Lucic, and Marchand? I wouldn't, I wasn't his biggest fan but there is more then enough reason Chia had his hand in all those picks and signings. Boston isn't going to go to the trouble of bringing him in then allowing their temporary asst GM to build the team before he even gets here, not without some input from the man.

http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2013/02/does_peter_chiarelli_get_enoug.html


The core Chia truly inherited imo was Bergeron, Boyes, Murray, Axe, Stuart, Thomas and Raycroft with prospects like Karsums, Versteeg, Kalus and Krejci.

He turned that into a cup winner.

Sweeney is inheriting the far better core in my opinion, more aged and higher paid or not. A lot of this core still holds big time value (Chara, Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, etc...). No reason he can't deal with the cap issues and return value as well. Chia wasn't perfect, not in the least (Seguin and Kessel trades were Thornton'esque), but he performed a miracle when he was here.

So Chiareli is saying he made the Rask deal not Gorton.

 

[Ice Nine]

Chia inherited a far worse roster

Sweeney inherited a stronger roster but worse cap situation

The roster below was and is absolute garbage and possibly one of the worst lineups I ever watched toss a spoked B on their backs


http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BOS/2007.html

You're right, that was an absolute garbage lineup.

But you want to know something jaw dropping?

That garbage lineup scored more goals in 2006/07 season than our team did last year. It also had four guys who scored 20+ goals (Savard, Bergeron, Murray, Sturm) including two who scored 25+ goals (Sturm/Murray).

• Bruins 2006/2007: 219 goals for.
  
• Bruins 2014/2015: 209 goals for.

Just shows you what "absolute garbage" our offense was last year. It plumbed the depths of historic Bruins suck-age.

Sweeney has actually inherited a WORSE offense than the bottom of the basement lineup that Chiarelli took over in 2006/2007.

But most on this Board think our D is our most pressing need.

Remove Horton. Remove Seguin. Remove Iginla. And this is the stinker offense we're left with.

I don't see it improving without significant adds -- comparable to an Iginla or Seguin.

 

[Ice Nine]

To be fair, there was 5 years between the team Chia inherited and the one that won the cup. At that point Boston was at it's lowest perception wise as it had been in quite some time (and that's saying something). How much did Chia have to do with the draft, can you truly say he inherited guys like Chara, Savard, Kessel, Lucic, and Marchand? I wouldn't, I wasn't his biggest fan but there is more then enough reason Chia had his hand in all those picks and signings. Boston isn't going to go to the trouble of bringing him in then allowing their temporary asst GM to build the team before he even gets here, not without some input from the man.

http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2013/02/does_peter_chiarelli_get_enoug.html


The core Chia truly inherited imo was Bergeron, Boyes, Murray, Axe, Stuart, Thomas and Raycroft with prospects like Karsums, Versteeg, Kalus and Krejci.

He turned that into a cup winner.

Sweeney is inheriting the far better core in my opinion, more aged and higher paid or not. A lot of this core still holds big time value (Chara, Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, etc...). No reason he can't deal with the cap issues and return value as well. Chia wasn't perfect, not in the least (Seguin and Kessel trades were Thornton'esque), but he performed a miracle when he was here.

That's funny, because here's Chiarelli being quoted by the New York Times praising Gorton for the moves:

"As the interim general manager of the Bruins for four months in 2006, Gorton acquired Tuuka Rask, signed Zdeno Chara and drafted Milan Lucic and Brad Marchand...

"I thought they did a real good job," Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli said Tuesday of what Gorton and Bruins' staff did in 2006.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/s...interviews-for-rangers-coaching-job.html?_r=0

 

[captain stone]

You're right, that was an absolute garbage lineup.

But you want to know something jaw dropping?

That garbage lineup scored more goals in 2006/07 season than our team did last year. It also had four guys who scored 20+ goals (Savard, Bergeron, Murray, Sturm) including two who scored 25+ goals (Sturm/Murray).

• Bruins 2006/2007: 219 goals for.
  
• Bruins 2014/2015: 209 goals for.

Just shows you what "absolute garbage" our offense was last year. It plumbed the depths of historic Bruins suck-age.

Sweeney has actually inherited a WORSE offense than the bottom of the basement lineup that Chiarelli took over in 2006/2007.

But most on this Board think our D is our most pressing need.

Remove Horton. Remove Seguin. Remove Iginla. And this is the stinker offense we're left with.

I don't see it improving without significant adds -- comparable to an Iginla or Seguin.

I agree. This "offense" is offensive and needs help the most, but I just don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Kaoz]

That's funny, because here's Chiarelli being quoted by the New York Times praising Gorton for the moves:



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/s...interviews-for-rangers-coaching-job.html?_r=0

"I thought they did a real good job" equates to Chia praising Gorton for the offseason moves in 2006? I guess we hear what we want to hear, but that doesn't seem like anywhere near that specific of a quote to me.

To be fair though, to your point, he didn't respond with an "are you serious, I was pulling all the strings on those puppets"... so there is that. That would have been neat if he had of said that.

 

[ODAAT]

Because they were all overpaid.

Wasn't that the biggest problem for Chia?

Many of those here would have easily secured themselves similar paychecks elsewhere, yep, even Kelly

Chia`s biggest issue wasn`t necessarily any insane over payments, it was he needed to be less loyal, allow a prospect or two to step in and learn on the fly after letting a vet or two go each year but he was loyal to a fault

 

[DKH]

That's funny, because here's Chiarelli being quoted by the New York Times praising Gorton for the moves:



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/s...interviews-for-rangers-coaching-job.html?_r=0

Go do a little research and you can find Chiarelli praising Dave Lewis and saying he will be back - then firing him a week later.

Chiarelli my be to HF posters didn't make the deal but you won't convince anyone in the front office at the time Gorton did nothing more than execute back room moves and what Chiarelli wanted done