Who built the team that we have today?

[Darz]

Come on 500 isn't to much to ask in this case.
These guys were not no names they were ticketed as Elite well before their draft years.
Then we had to go through the pain of watching them light it up on the world stage while Gord kept saying the Bruins are gonna love him abd the flyers are gonna love him. Totally pisses me off to have Two French Quebecer's going to THOSE organizations. They both own more than we do....

Giroux isn't a French quebecer.....last I checked Hearst isn't in Quebec

 

[Habs100]

I would even credit Eller mainly to Timmins. Timmins drafted Halak in the last round. Halak was the asset used to get Eller.

One could make an argument that on average, a GM would have done better or worse than Eller, given Halak's value at the time. I give credit to Gauthier for choosing Eller. But no way we get Eller unless Timmins drafts Halak.

 

[Sorinth]

OK I'm not going to dump on Timmins cause I like him but.... how the **** do you get 8/14 here. If you were drafted in the first round or later you should still be in the NHL. In that regard he is 5/11 which is well below what you should be getting out of the first round and I'm including Beaulieu as an NHLER. Galchenyuk and Price were top 5 can't miss picks...McDo was a great pick but gone and Chipchura is a career 4th liner do we really want to count them as a win.

Timmins is great in the later rounds and finds gems from non traditional sources. I don't know who make the scouting decision in Canada but it seems they may not be up to par. The teams from a few years ago had a disproportional amount of Europeans and Americans compared with most NHL teams. We take more chances on Europeans and USHS than other teams. Sometimes is it works sometimes it doesn't.

Who built this team. Well if you consider our core as the major factor then it's Gainey. If you consider the changes made in getting rid of bad choices and bringing in solid depth players then MB. Look at this years training camp. All of the youth pressing for spots are mostly MB moves. I can't remember a camp where I like what I see from so many players. That to me is a cultural shift that MB is responsible for.

Well the guy drafted before Price was Pouliot, the guy after Brule so they aren't as can't miss as you seem to think.

Outside the top 10, you have around a 20% chance of getting an NHL player that's more than a 4th liner. So that 5/11 is more than double the average.

 

[Scintillating10]

I would go with Bergs. He bought in Waite to help Price. Subban has zoomed under him. The pro-scouting finding Weaver/Weiss was a coup. If not for those moves we'll been fringe playoff team last year not in conference finals

 

[Andy]

If we're talking about last year, I would say the team was mostly the previous regimes core, with a strong flavor of MB. This year, it's a strong mix of Bergevin's with lingering key pieces from the previous regime. MB still has the same players in the same key positions that Gauthier had them, but a lot of the complimentary pieces are his.

The core components of the team are still similar to the previous team's core components, regardless of whether they were drafted by Timmins or not. DD-Eller-Plekanec-Pacioretty-Markov-Subban-Price-Emelin-Bourque are all playing a similar role now that they did in the Gauthier regime, so were Gionta and Gorges before them. Also, people forget that Gallagher was a hair away from making the team when Martin was around, for me he is in both camps as both regimes had similar visions for the player.

The acquisitions of Parenteau, Prust, Malholtra, Weise, Gilbert, Sekac, Weaver are starting to push the team in MB's direction.

 

[ZARTONK]

you said Gainey did a fine job trying to ruin it all, how do you ruin zero games in the NHL.

Bob? Is that you?

 

[Smokey Thompson]

I give credit to MB and Timmins for this team. The core of this team was built by TT, and could've been even better were it not for idiotic moves by former management.

MB took the core he inherited, shed the excess weight, and brought in a ton of depth. He brought in a notion of stability and brought pride and class back to this organization.

He was handed an organization that for the longest time dressed guys like Darche, MAB, Gomez, and other scrubs. Two years later, we have so much depth we'll be forced to scratch 2 legit NHL forwards.

One important MB attribute is that he recognizes his mistakes and fixes them. (Briere, Murray, etc.)

The one thing seperating us from an exceptional organization from top to bottom is Hamilton. We've had a horrible team for a couple seasons now... But I think with the influx of junior players graduating to the Pros, this may be the year the Bulldogs establish themselves as a top team in the AHL. This is often overlooked.. It instills a winning cultute for our young kids to develop in.

Couldn't be happier with the work MB has done. Really makes me proud to be a Canadiens fan. And this organization will be a contender in the East for a good 5 years.

 

[ZARTONK]

I would even credit Eller mainly to Timmins. Timmins drafted Halak in the last round. Halak was the asset used to get Eller.

One could make an argument that on average, a GM would have done better or worse than Eller, given Halak's value at the time. I give credit to Gauthier for choosing Eller. But no way we get Eller unless Timmins drafts Halak.

Uhhh..... Seriously?

Timmins did his job by drafting a good goalie, and Gauthier did his job by trading him for a great player in Eller. But somehow, for you, Timmins should be credited for both?

 

[Habs100]

Uhhh..... Seriously?

Timmins did his job by drafting a good goalie, and Gauthier did his job by trading him for a great player in Eller. But somehow, for you, Timmins should be credited for both?

No, I don't credit Timmins for both. You must have missed the phrase "I mainly credit Timmins for Eller." I saw an interview once where Shanahan was saying he learned in Detroit that you build through the draft. The Wings had acquired him via trade. But he was saying it was the selection of a good pick (Primeau) that gave them the assets needed to acquire him.

Timmins took a 9th round pick and turned it into a high quality asset (Halak) which was then used to acquire Eller. Going from a 9th round pick to Halak increased the organizations assets more than going from Halak to Eller. The Halak-Eller trade is looking damn good now since Halak is faltering and Eller may explode into a legitimate top 6 center, and at worst seems like he'll become an excellent 3rd line center.

But, like I said we can't even have this discussion if we don't have one of the best, if not the best, scout in the game.

I judge the GM based on what he did with the assets he inherited. Gauthier did real well in the trade. He did real well in the Bournival and Cammalleri trades. He also did real well in trading AK and Gill for second round picks. He should get a lot of the credit for what those picks turn out to be, since it was he who had a large hand in increased the quality of the organization's assets in those instances.

 

[JAVO16]

 

[Kimota]

Man, i couldn't agree with you more. I Love Gainey as a player but I feel like kicking in a stain glass window at my local church when i think of him as a GM. Gainey & Gauthier have proven the Peter Principle on more than one occasion: you get promoted to your level of incompetence.

Or by reputation.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Timmins is the guy I'd give props to.

Most of these guys were drafted under Gainey's watch but Timmins is the guy who I think deserves the credit.

 

[Alexdaman]

Bob Gainey and Pierre Gauthier.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Thaink about it, Markov (selected in the Houle era) and Plekanec predate Gainey and Timmins.

 

[DAChampion]

So you're basically saying that because the team was absolute garbage under Gauthier that year, he deserves the pick that Bergevin and Timmins made because he got us into that awful position? He should be criticised for running such a poor team, not rewarded.

I credit Gauthier with forfeiting the season at the midpoint. If he had aimed for the playoffs we would have drafted Grigorenko rather than Galchenyuk.

 

[DAChampion]

OK I'm not going to dump on Timmins cause I like him but.... how the **** do you get 8/14 here. If you were drafted in the first round or later you should still be in the NHL. In that regard he is 5/11 which is well below what you should be getting out of the first round and I'm including Beaulieu as an NHLER. Galchenyuk and Price were top 5 can't miss picks...McDo was a great pick but gone and Chipchura is a career 4th liner do we really want to count them as a win.

Timmins is great in the later rounds and finds gems from non traditional sources. I don't know who make the scouting decision in Canada but it seems they may not be up to par. The teams from a few years ago had a disproportional amount of Europeans and Americans compared with most NHL teams. We take more chances on Europeans and USHS than other teams. Sometimes is it works sometimes it doesn't.

Who built this team. Well if you consider our core as the major factor then it's Gainey. If you consider the changes made in getting rid of bad choices and bringing in solid depth players then MB. Look at this years training camp. All of the youth pressing for spots are mostly MB moves. I can't remember a camp where I like what I see from so many players. That to me is a cultural shift that MB is responsible for.

Half or more of 1st rounders don't have productive NHL careers, look up the stats. Expecting 1.000 batting average in the 1st round is irrational. No team manages this.

No team.

 

[25get]

Who was GM at that time?
We can blame the GM for the first pick but the second pick...
Who was the scout at that time?

Mind you: many missed Giroux (Fourth in scoring from the 2006 draft but picked at 22nd) and Lucic and Marchand "the dive man" that year.
And back in 2003, many missed Bergeron, Pavelski, Weber and Byfuglien.

 

[DAChampion]

You have to evaluate a scout based on who they selected, not who they didn't select.

For any player drafted 15th overall, there are 195 players drafted after him. As such, it is extremely likely that one of them will be better than him, even that multiple will be better than him. That's because they are not precisely and obviously ordered.