Who built the team that we have today?

[Mr Jackpot]

Bob Gainey and Pierre Gauthier.

Click to read more...

 

[Ezpz]

Timmins. Eller and Bourque are the only players Gainey/Gauthier acquired that weren't UFAs or drafted by us.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Bob Gainey and Pierre Gauthier.

A. Savard and Timmins more like.

Although Gainey did a fine job trying to ruin it all.

Timmins. Eller and Bourque are the only players Gainey/Gauthier acquired that weren't UFAs or drafted by us.

You are forgetting Bournival acquired by Gauthier from O'byrne.

Also UFAs gotta count here.. and add DD and Moen.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

 

[Rapala]

I say rink Moms all over NA The Russia's our Scandanavian friends and don't forget Europe.

The rest is all just happenstance.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Not sure what you're trying to imply here ?

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Cory Urquhart

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Not sure what you're trying to imply here ?

you said Gainey did a fine job trying to ruin it all, how do you ruin zero games in the NHL.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Cory Urquhart

All the good picks that were made under Gainey are the result of hiring Timmins.. which was done by André Savard..

Even before Timmins, Savard drafted us Plekanec who has been our first line center for forever.

Yes André Savard did WAY more positive things for the habs than Gainey and his self appointed successor did.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Timmins. Eller and Bourque are the only players Gainey/Gauthier acquired that weren't UFAs or drafted by us.

Building the team is not Timmins job, his job (and Timmins staff) is evaluating juniors players and making a report of these players to the GM's.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

you said Gainey did a fine job trying to ruin it all, how do you ruin zero games in the NHL.

I don't know, you're somehow equating A. Savard's entire tenure to the choice of Urquhart over Bergeron probably thinking yourself clever or funny. I assure you that you are neither.

 

[JohnLennon]

You couldn't have lost your credibility more quickly if you tried.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Building the team is not Timmins job, his job (and Timmins staff) is evaluating juniors players and making a report of these players to the GM's.

The job of GM is to surround yourself with competent people to give you these reports, and act on it. Then evaluate the people you hired and replace them as needed.

A.Savard hired the most competent guy for the job because of his connection with Timmins in Ottawa. He's been with us ever since and landed us Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Galchenyuk, McDonagh, Gallagher, etc. Enough to build a perennial contender. Gainey had little to do with that since he didn't hire Timmins.

If Gainey had done the rest of the job well, and surrounded himself with people who could give him info then he could take credit for it a little but his asset management was ABYSMAL. He hired Gauthier and our pro scouting was terrible. Just the McDo for Gomez trade and that summer of madness leaves him in a huge deficit toward this franchise as far as his career as a GM went with us. The rest was really meh. But that he ****ed us over so bad that summer that he might have cost us a trip to the SCF and being clear cut favorites in the east this year.

 

[DAChampion]

The dumbest post in the thread, congratulations.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Bottom line

A. Savard legacy : Timmins + Plekanec. Successful transition from a completely DEAD roster he inherited from Houle.
Gainey's legacy : Losing us McDo, letting Koivu go for nothing, leaving Gauthier in charge.

Horrible.

 

[Habs Icing]

The job of GM is to surround yourself with competent people to give you these reports, and act on it. Then evaluate the people you hired and replace them as needed.

A.Savard hired the most competent guy for the job because of his connection with Timmins in Ottawa. He's been with us ever since and landed us Pacioretty, Subban, Price, Galchenyuk, McDonagh, Gallagher, etc. Enough to build a perennial contender. Gainey had little to do with that since he didn't hire Timmins.

If Gainey had done the rest of the job well, and surrounded himself with people who could give him info then he could take credit for it a little but his asset management was ABYSMAL. He hired Gauthier and our pro scouting was terrible. Just the McDo for Gomez trade and that summer of madness leaves him in a huge deficit toward this franchise as far as his career as a GM went with us. The rest was really meh. But that he ****ed us over so bad that summer that he might have cost us a trip to the SCF and being clear cut favorites in the east this year.

Man, i couldn't agree with you more. I Love Gainey as a player but I feel like kicking in a stain glass window at my local church when i think of him as a GM. Gainey & Gauthier have proven the Peter Principle on more than one occasion: you get promoted to your level of incompetence.

 

[Rapala]

Not sure what you're trying to imply here ?

Ummm something about 2 blue chips in our own back yard getting away scott free.
These are organizational decisions and there is absolutely no excuse in either case as they had both been scouted forever...

just not by us evidently.

 

[DAChampion]

Ummm something about 2 blue chips in our own back yard getting away scott free.
These are organizational decisions and there is absolutely no excuse in either case as they had both been scouted forever...

just not by us evidently.

You don't expect your scouts to bat 1.000.

There has never been a single scout in the history of any pro sport anywhere in the world who has a 1.000 batting average.

If you have even a rudimentary ability to process basic information, you should be able to figure out why.

What matters is the batting average of your pro scout relative to other pro scouts, and Timmins is the best scout in the sport.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Man, i couldn't agree with you more. I Love Gainey as a player but I feel like kicking in a stain glass window at my local church when i think of him as a GM. Gainey & Gauthier have proven the Peter Principle on more than one occasion: you get promoted to your level of incompetence.

Yes, it's important to separate the man, the player and the GM.

The man is a great individual. As a player he was great and did a lot for the habs.

But as a GM.. *shudder*

 

[DAChampion]

In the 2007 NHL entry draft, Boston drafted Zach Hamill at 8th overall over Ryan McDonagh at 12th overall, Max Pacioretty at 22nd overall. They drafted Tommy Cross at 35th overall over PK Subban at 43rd overall.

They should fire their scout.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

You don't expect your scouts to bat 1.000.

There has never been a single scout in the history of any pro sport anywhere in the world who has a 1.000 batting average.

If you have even a rudimentary ability to process basic information, you should be able to figure out why.

What matters is the batting average of your pro scout relative to other pro scouts, and Timmins is the best scout in the sport.

Exactly.

You have to know that there will be misses. The important thing for me is the number of really good players drafted who are hard to acquire other than from the draft and have a chance to get your club to the next level.

In that department, Timmins has done a really really good job considering how low we draft usually.

Ummm something about 2 blue chips in our own back yard getting away scott free.
These are organizational decisions and there is absolutely no excuse in either case as they had both been scouted forever...

just not by us evidently.

As DAC said, every team will miss out on a prospect at some point.
You have to look at the overall body of work.

What's way way way way worse is to squander a bluechip prospect in a trade once you've finally got a good one. That can't happen if you want to be a successful team.

 

[Rapala]

You don't expect your scouts to bat 1.000.

There has never been a single scout in the history of any pro sport anywhere in the world who has a 1.000 batting average.

If you have even a rudimentary ability to process basic information, you should be able to figure out why.

What matters is the batting average of your pro scout relative to other pro scouts, and Timmins is the best scout in the sport.

Come on 500 isn't to much to ask in this case.
These guys were not no names they were ticketed as Elite well before their draft years.
Then we had to go through the pain of watching them light it up on the world stage while Gord kept saying the Bruins are gonna love him abd the flyers are gonna love him. Totally pisses me off to have Two French Quebecer's going to THOSE organizations. They both own more than we do....

 

[Seb]

I summon the spirit of Lord Chezz

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Gomez-Mcdo trade at the time was a very good NHL center vs a decent prospect. Years later it turned out to be a very poor center vs a Norris candidate.

 

[DAChampion]

Come on 500 isn't to much to ask in this case.

Timmins is consistently ranked the number one scout or among the top few in the NHL, that is in fact enough to ask for.

And FYI, he bats .500 in the top-60.

From 2003, Andrei Kostitsyn and Maxim Lapierre got a legitimate NHL career, Cory Uruqhart did not.
From 2004, Kyle Chipchura got a legitimate NHL career, nobody was drafted in the 2nd round.
From 2005, Carey Price and Guillaume Latendresse had legitimate NHL careers.
From 2006, David Fischer, Ben Maxwell, and Mathieu Carle did not have NHL careers.
From 2007, Ryan McDonagh, Max Pcioretty, and PK Subban have had and continue to have legitimate NHL careers.
From 2008, no 1st rounder, Danny Kristo was traded.
From 2009, Leblanc busted, no 2nd rounder.
From 2010 onwards, too early to tell.

So for what we can evaluate, Timmins did 8/14 in the 1st and rounds in the period 2003-2009, including 4/14 who became elite players.