Who are your Elite Centers in the League?

[TheOctopusKid]

Going into the 2021-22 Season: Who, in the league, would you consider to be an elite center? It can be as many as you want, from any team, but where you draw the line between being just a good center vs. an elite one.

Just some interesting debate around this as we all generally agree we're missing this player on our team and I'm wondering what the consensus is what we would consider to be an actual elite Center. Like do we still consider Malkin elite? Is Scheifele? Did Barzal take a step into that territory? Over someone like Stamkos? Who are the Cs you consider to be stars?

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[slimnipsu]

Barkov
MacKinnon
McDavid
Point
Matthews
My personal top 5, in no particular order

 

[lilidk]

Barkov
MacKinnon
McDavid
Point
Matthews
My personal top 5, in no particular order

Aho, Kuznetsov, O'Reilly, Pavelsky, Crosby, Malkin

 

[Syckle78]

Barkov
MacKinnon
McDavid
Point
Matthews
My personal top 5, in no particular order

Good list. Add Draisaitl as a definite member of the elite club. Crosby,Bergeron, Malkin and Backstrom are the old dogs that could play at an elite level for another year or two but are on their way out.

 

[Henkka]

Going into the 2021-22 Season: Who, in the league, would you consider to be an elite center? It can be as many as you want, from any team, but where you draw the line between being just a good center vs. an elite one.

Just some interesting debate around this as we all generally agree we're missing this player on our team and I'm wondering what the consensus is what we would consider to be an actual elite Center. Like do we still consider Malkin elite? Is Scheifele? Did Barzal take a step into that territory? Over someone like Stamkos? Who are the Cs you consider to be stars?

I don't really know who are elite. But these teams were best teams at the playoffs, and this take kind of proves that you don't need to TANK for ELITE centers, or Centers generally. You find them everywhere and have a successful team.

Top4 Teams had these Center cores

Tampa
----------
Point, 3rd round pick
Cirelli, 4th round pick
Gourde, free agent signing as 22-year old

Montreal
-----------
Danault, 26th overall, traded from CHI
Suzuki, 13th overall
Kotkaniemi/Staal, 3rd overall struggling kid/2nd overall washed up vet.

NY Islanders
-----------------
Barzal, 16th overall
Nelson, 30th overall
Pageau, 4th round pick, traded from OTT

Vegas
---------
Stephenson, 3rd round pick, traded from WSH
Karlsson, 2nd round pick, expansion claim
Nicola Roy, 4th round pick, traded from CAR

So, only Montreal has Top3 picks on their 1-2-3 Center core, and they even weren't in a key role. 3rd liners.

Six guys picked outside of 1st round. We have our picks for those. Four guys were picked at 13-16-26-30, at middle or end part of the 1st round. That's our pick range, even if we start doing better as a team. We don't have to tank. 10/12 of those were outside of TOP3 picks.

The whole point is, too many people in here have DESPERATE NEED for TANKING because of that CENTER, and that's clearly not the truth. Yzerman can found it from somewhere else than with high Top3 picks.

It's almost hilarious, how those teams with expensive ELITE centers will fail nowadays. Their cap is invested to that Center and team depth is missing.

 

[Macoun]

We have the worst center group in the entire NHL.

if we somehow manage to get a number one center than Larkin slides into the 2 spot perfectly and I hope Veleno turns into a great third line center

 

[jkutswings]

I don't expect Pius Suter to ever enter the conversation of being an elite center.

But after all that's happened in Chicago, letting him walk to an old rival and then see him grow into a stud would be the crown jewel of karma.

 

[Macoun]

I don't expect Pius Suter to ever enter the conversation of being an elite center.

But after all that's happened in Chicago, letting him walk to an old rival and then see him grow into a stud would be the crown jewel of karma.

would be really nice but I just don’t see it happening

 

[BStinson]

I don't really know who are elite. But these teams were best teams at the playoffs, and this take kind of proves that you don't need to TANK for ELITE centers, or Centers generally. You find them everywhere and have a successful team.

Top4 Teams had these Center cores

Tampa
----------
Point, 3rd round pick
Cirelli, 4th round pick
Gourde, free agent signing as 22-year old

Montreal
-----------
Danault, 26th overall, traded from CHI
Suzuki, 13th overall
Kotkaniemi/Staal, 3rd overall struggling kid/2nd overall washed up vet.

NY Islanders
-----------------
Barzal, 16th overall
Nelson, 30th overall
Pageau, 4th round pick, traded from OTT

Vegas
---------
Stephenson, 3rd round pick, traded from WSH
Karlsson, 2nd round pick, expansion claim
Nicola Roy, 4th round pick, traded from CAR

So, only Montreal has Top3 picks on their 1-2-3 Center core, and they even weren't in a key role. 3rd liners.

Six guys picked outside of 1st round. We have our picks for those. Four guys were picked at 13-16-26-30, at middle or end part of the 1st round. That's our pick range, even if we start doing better as a team. We don't have to tank. 10/12 of those were outside of TOP3 picks.

The whole point is, too many people in here have DESPERATE NEED for TANKING because of that CENTER, and that's clearly not the truth. Yzerman can found it from somewhere else than with high Top3 picks.

It's almost hilarious, how those teams with expensive ELITE centers will fail nowadays. Their cap is invested to that Center and team depth is missing.

I see what you’re thinking but I wouldn’t label those teams top 4 next year. What teams took TB to game 7 and probably would’ve won if one team wasn’t 10M+ over the cap? Florida and Canes deserve consideration for that fact. Pittsburgh has recently won back to back with Crosby/Malkin as a center core. I can’t think of a team recently that’s had subpar centers and won.

 

[Henkka]

Pittsburgh has recently won back to back with Crosby/Malkin as a center core. I can’t think of a team recently that’s had subpar centers and won.

That's the old era. Cap is getting tighter and players getting more market values. Elite centers cost much, maybe too much, relatively for their impact. Best teams seem to find a way to find good centers elsewhere.

Just like Tampa did their 1-2 Center are from 3rd-4th round. When they are drafted from lower rounds, also the RFA salary push is lot smaller. Now some Eichel's get 10M as a default, and you have more and more to avoid that. Lottery pick players get high salaries as too young.

This Matthews contract really did re-set the market. Marner contract did inflate it as well, and Eichel. Those guys aren't seeing the 2nd round or playoffs at all. Haven't been easy for McDavid either.

 

[BStinson]

That's the old era. Cap is getting tighter and players getting more market values. Elite centers cost much, maybe too much, relatively for their impact. Best teams seem to find a way to find good centers elsewhere.

Just like Tampa did their 1-2 Center are from 3rd-4th round. When they are drafted from lower rounds, also the RFA salary push is lot smaller. Now some Eichel's get 10M as a default, and you have more and more to avoid that. Lottery pick players get high salaries as too young.

This Matthews contract really did re-set the market. Marner contract did inflate it as well, and Eichel. Those guys aren't seeing the 2nd round or playoffs at all. Haven't been easy for McDavid either.

The old era then to you is every Stanley Cup winner in recent memory. Like I already said the top 4 from last year can shake out a multiple ways and generally teams with continued success have a strong center core.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Elite is and should only be reserved for those at or just below "franchise" level

So
Crosby
mcdavid
Point
Mathews g
Barzal
MacKinnon
Tavares
Bergeron
Malkin
Eichel
Stamkos
Barkov
Schefeile
Kopitar
Draisaitl

This is in no particular order and of course includes franchise level guys who're by definition a tier above elite

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Going into the 2021-22 Season: Who, in the league, would you consider to be an elite center? It can be as many as you want, from any team, but where you draw the line between being just a good center vs. an elite one.

Just some interesting debate around this as we all generally agree we're missing this player on our team and I'm wondering what the consensus is what we would consider to be an actual elite Center. Like do we still consider Malkin elite? Is Scheifele? Did Barzal take a step into that territory? Over someone like Stamkos? Who are the Cs you consider to be stars?

I think we need to define what elite is. For me, elite is top 10ish in the league at your position (for a skater) and top 5 to 10 for a goalie (Depending on the era. The mid to late 90s had some of the best goalies we've ever seen). These are the guys that usually win their matchups against everyone else but are 50/50 against other elite competition.
The centers I think are elite in no particular order:

Crosby
Malkin
OReilly
Matthews
McDavid
Draisaitl
Barkov
Point
Kopitar
Schiefele
MacKinnon
Bergeron

Guys that I think COULD be in this list are Barzal, Eichel, Aho, a healthy Toews and Pettersson

 

[njx9]

Ignoring the nonsense that those were the top 4 teams solely because of covid divisions, and even ignoring the nonsense of pretending Tampa's C need is comparable to literally anything...

The whole point is, too many people in here have DESPERATE NEED for TANKING because of that CENTER, and that's clearly not the truth. Yzerman can found it from somewhere else than with high Top3 picks.

Great, what are the odds of finding an actual 1C once you're out of the top 10 picks? What are the odds of finding a 1C when your scouts have proven, over ~20 years, that they're utterly and completely incapable (with a single possible exception, if he can resurrect his career this year) of identifying guys who are more than mediocre 3Cs ? Do you think the odds are better at the top of the draft for a dude who's been the clear top pick for several years or in the third round throwing darts?

It's almost hilarious, how those teams with expensive ELITE centers will fail nowadays. Their cap is invested to that Center and team depth is missing.

Do you think that teams with cap problems have maybe made mistakes *other* than paying high level Cs (like, I dunno, giving a winger $10mAAV or spending years striking out on nearly every pick)? Or do you think their entire problem is that having talented Cs is actually really a bad thing, because you want your team to get back to being a first round out quicker?

 

[Henkka]

Ignoring the nonsense that those were the top 4 teams solely because of covid divisions, and even ignoring the nonsense of pretending Tampa's C need is comparable to literally anything...

Oh, the excuse is the covid divisions.

How about year earlier:

Tampa
----------
Point, 3rd round pick
Cirelli, 4th round pick
Gourde, free agent signing as 22-year old

Dallas
----------
Pavelski, 6th round pick, UFA player
Seguin, 2nd overall, traded
Hintz, 2nd rounder
Faksa, 13th overall

NY Islanders
-----------------
Barzal, 16th overall
Nelson, 30th overall
Pageau, 4th round pick, traded from OTT

Vegas
---------
Stastny, 14th overall, UFA player
Stephenson, 3rd round pick, traded from WSH
Karlsson, 2nd round pick, expansion claim
Nicola Roy, 4th round pick, traded from CAR

So this were the Normal Divisions year before and only 1 team is different. Dallas had Tyler Seguin there, just like Montreal had Kotkaniemi/Eric Staal.

Paul Stastny makes a difference there with Vegas, it looks definitely a better Center core, but the defence was worse. Just another example, what will happen, if you invest at defence (pay 10M for Pietrangelo). You'll get the same results, with worse centers, when your money is invested on other position.

So Centers won't look as a critical need. It's just one position like the others. If your system works, you win.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I don't expect Pius Suter to ever enter the conversation of being an elite center.

But after all that's happened in Chicago, letting him walk to an old rival and then see him grow into a stud would be the crown jewel of karma.

A modern day Hossa? Except Chicago is the one who lets go of the nice player.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I think we need to define what elite is. For me, elite is top 10ish in the league at your position (for a skater) and top 5 to 10 for a goalie (Depending on the era. The mid to late 90s had some of the best goalies we've ever seen). These are the guys that usually win their matchups against everyone else but are 50/50 against other elite competition.
The centers I think are elite in no particular order:

Crosby
Malkin
OReilly
Matthews
McDavid
Draisaitl
Barkov
Point
Kopitar
Schiefele
MacKinnon
Bergeron

Guys that I think COULD be in this list are Barzal, Eichel, Aho, a healthy Toews and Pettersson

The only reason I see to hold Eichel off that list is the back injury situation. I'd take a healthy Eichel over multiple names on that list without hesitation.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The only reason I see to hold Eichel off that list is the back injury situation. I'd take a healthy Eichel over multiple names on that list without hesitation.

That's part of it. The other part of it is I see Eichel as the weakest defensively out of any name on that list. Even weaker than McDavid and Draisaitl. I place a lot of importance in a center's two way play.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

It's a pretty flawed argument to claim that teams with elite centers don't win because they pay elite centers. Hockey is a team sport and the center position is integral to success. Now I agree that more teams aren't very good in the post cap world but that's another discussion.

 

[ricky0034]

"SEE? you don't need to draft a Center high to win a Cup just pick up a Point in the 3rd round it's easy!"

 

[Revenge of Gru]

"SEE? you don't need to draft a Center high to win a Cup just pick up a Point in the 3rd round it's easy!"

Yep. No problem. Just snatch one off the elite center tree.

 

[jkutswings]

A dose of realism:

Detroit is not about to acquire one of the existing elite centers, and is not likely to win the draft lottery.
Detroit is much more likely to use a top 10 pick on a center and hope said prospect develops into a very good to great 1C.

 

[deca guard]

McDavid
Draisaitl
Barkov
MacKinnon

 

[Revenge of Gru]

A dose of realism:

Detroit is not about to acquire one of the existing elite centers, and is not likely to win the draft lottery.
Detroit is much more likely to use a top 10 pick on a center and hope said prospect develops into a very good to great 1C.

And the reality is that it is very unlikely that strategy will work.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And the reality is that it is very unlikely that strategy will work.

So I suppose Ilitch should just throw in the towel, fold the team and sell the players contracts to the other owners in the league, eh?