Post-Game Talk: Who Are These Guys? Pens Best Leafs 3-1

[mpp9]

You have yet to actually answer the question. It's amazing how you can ignore the question and keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Maatta actually has nothing to do with this question, yet you keep mentioning his name.

If you PM me your address, I'll send you a good pair of reading glasses.

(by the way, since this stuff is tracked, Maatta has more OFFZone Starts than Despres and is also playing sheltered minutes as far as QoC, and Despres, until the 3rd period, was matching up with the Leafs 2nd line last night)

This is getting ridiculous my friend. My comment was Maatta is the guy DB is trusting to go up against the other team's best players. He has been for quite some time.

Despres did indeed go up against Lupul last night. That doesn't change what I said.

When we're healthy, Maatta is the first guy to move up in the top 4. Despres is someone who will struggle to find a spot here under DB. Unless we make some trades.

I never once said Despres is a lesser player. His outlet pass is better. He's a bigger body who can better handle forwards around the net. I think Maatta has better hockey sense and makes fewer mistakes.

Friends?

 

[mpp9]

So trade a player for the sake of trading a player? Give up a valuable asset for...well for what exactly? Someone who is a tweener?
Look at what Morrow got us. So that's the kind of ballpark you're looking at. It would be absolutely stupid to deal Depres at this point. Stupid.

Whitney and Gogo got us the players that they did only after proving their worth at the NHL level. And their value was severely increased playing on an offensive juggernaut kind of team. You simply do NOT deal Depres when his value is far lower than it is going to be next year, three years etc.

And as of right now, I'm sorry, but even with his declining play, Brooks Orpik gets you far more in return at this point in time than Depres does.

Pending UFA Orpik vs. cost controlled 6'4 two way D-man who's shown he can handle big minutes on a contending team.

If we're looking to pick up a significant upgrade for Sid, I'd bet the latter (in a package) is far more likely to land us what we want.

I don't disagree we're smarter to keep him. But I don't think Orpik is being moved. And Nisky doesn't have the trade value himself as a pending UFA. Gotta give to get.

 

[Waffle Fries]

My opinion on Maatta/Despres (both I think should be staples on our bluelines in the years to come, starting now).
Maatta - may have the better stick & positioning as of right now.
Despres - better most everywhere else, right now, and more flashy. This includes holding the offensive zone, passing, board work, skating out of trouble.
I think they're both great and both have really high upside. They are just different. They're both really good.

I think this is pretty accurate. Maatta plays a simple, risk free game. It's essentially mistake free defensively. Despres is the more entertaining player to watch though and has better natural offensive instincts.

Last night, Despres caught Sid with a gorgeous pass last night when he was skating up ice. I was amazed for a moment because outside of Bennett, I can't remember the last time someone caught Sid with a tape-to-tape pass at all.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Despres is the better talent. Maatta is the better hockey player. That's how I see them.

 

[Captain Hook]

Despres is the better talent. Maatta is the better hockey player. That's how I see them.

Yeah, I tend to agree based on what we've seen so far.

 

[Malkin112*]

Despres is the better talent. Maatta is the better hockey player. That's how I see them.

I don't agree at all. Despres is probably better talent if you take only physical aspect of the game, but Määttä is for sure better at mental side. Määttä is also over three years younger and that is quite significant difference.

 

[#66]

I don't agree at all. Despres is probably better talent if you take only physical aspect of the game, but Määttä is for sure better at mental side. Määttä is also over three years younger and that is quite significant difference.

Agree. I also think Maatta has the better hand skills. Despres is the better skater but IMO Maatta has him on hand skills and the mental game.

Its really insane how Maatta took his biggest flaw from his draft year and turned it around to be such an asset. He used to force pucks so much in junior that I really questioned his sense during his draft year but now he's as clean as spic and span. I guess a more structured pro game helped him but he did look to be cleaning things up right after he was drafted. Full marks to him.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't agree at all. Despres is probably better talent if you take only physical aspect of the game, but Määttä is for sure better at mental side. Määttä is also over three years younger and that is quite significant difference.

By talent, I thought it was implied to suggest physical talent, and by better hockey player I thought it was implied to suggest far superior hockey sense and the mental aspects of the game.

 

[wgknestrick]

I've been catching Despres icing the puck a lot lately. Anyone else notice this too? It's about the only thing he needs to work on so far.

 

[mpp9]

Despres is the better talent. Maatta is the better hockey player. That's how I see them.

I can agree with that. Despres has more physical tools. Maatta's brain is his best tool.

 

[#66]

I've been catching Despres icing the puck a lot lately. Anyone else notice this too? It's about the only thing he needs to work on so far.

That's the danger of the stretch. Its a little bit one and done.

NHL speed and pressure have to be the biggest step up for these young Dmen though. They'll all have to get used to it.

 

[cygnus47]

I don't agree at all. Despres is probably better talent if you take only physical aspect of the game, but Määttä is for sure better at mental side. Määttä is also over three years younger and that is quite significant difference.

That's exactly what he's saying. Talent =/= brains, case in point Letang.

 

[cygnus47]

Agree. I also think Maatta has the better hand skills. Despres is the better skater but IMO Maatta has him on hand skills and the mental game.

Its really insane how Maatta took his biggest flaw from his draft year and turned it around to be such an asset. He used to force pucks so much in junior that I really questioned his sense during his draft year but now he's as clean as spic and span. I guess a more structured pro game helped him but he did look to be cleaning things up right after he was drafted. Full marks to him.

At the time of the draft his skating was quite awkward and he threw around too many slap passes. Those things stopped him from being at worst a top 10 pick when he was drafted. You could see the slap passes issue at the start of the year, but he's stopped doing that. To me, he looks to have smoothed out his skating since earning his spot too. I'm not seeing as much of the awkward hip angles, maybe I'm just getting used to seeing it though.

 

[KeepitinPitt]

And this is why this club looks so much better when guys like Sill, Vitale, Megna, etc. get a chance to play. At this point in time, there is zero reason to play Adams or Glass ahead of these guys.

For all Adams' vaunted PK ability, he was the one who failed to clear an easy shot down the ice tonight. If Sutter hadn't blocked Phaneuf's attempt to deke around him, it could have lead to a potential tying goal all because Adams couldn't even do something he's supposedly kept around for.

I saw Adams make quite a few nice plays on the PK last night. Overall I thought he had a good game, but since he's the scapegoat ,only the plays he doesn't make are going to be talked about.

I'm all for giving the young guys playing time over Adams, but I don't see the point in knit picking everything he does. I can't think of one game where Craig Adams has costed us a win, yet people act like he's the reason we haven't won a cup since 09.

 

[Captain Hook]

I saw Adams make quite a few nice plays on the PK last night. Overall I thought he had a good game, but since he's the scapegoat ,only the plays he doesn't make are going to be talked about.

I'm all for giving the young guys playing time over Adams, but I don't see the point in knit picking everything he does. I can't think of one game where Craig Adams has costed us a win, yet people act like he's the reason we haven't won a cup since 09.

I agree. Phaneuf also knocked that Adams failed clear down out of mid-air. It wasn't like Adams passed it right to him or anything.

The only bad thing I can say about Adams is he's a non threat offensively both at ES and on the PK. He does a solid job defensively killing the penalties but we also have just about no chance of scoring a short-handed goal with him out there outside of last night's fluky empty net situation.

 

[mpp9]

Having both Adams and Glass out there is the problem.

 

[SteelFish87*]

Despres is the better talent. Maatta is the better hockey player. That's how I see them.

and both should be a fixture in our lineup now and in the future

 

[Matsun]

+ Great win
- Another Pokemon gif made at the expense of much more important things

 

[MtlPenFan]

I agree. Phaneuf also knocked that Adams failed clear down out of mid-air. It wasn't like Adams passed it right to him or anything.

The only bad thing I can say about Adams is he's a non threat offensively both at ES and on the PK. He does a solid job defensively killing the penalties but we also have just about no chance of scoring a short-handed goal with him out there outside of last night's fluky empty net situation.

My problem with Adams is that ANYBODY can do what he does.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I saw Adams make quite a few nice plays on the PK last night. Overall I thought he had a good game, but since he's the scapegoat ,only the plays he doesn't make are going to be talked about.

I'm all for giving the young guys playing time over Adams, but I don't see the point in knit picking everything he does. I can't think of one game where Craig Adams has costed us a win, yet people act like he's the reason we haven't won a cup since 09.

I don't bemoan him for costing us games, but he does cost us lost shifts, ice time to be taken away from others more deserved, and general game time experience that would be put to better use when given to someone like Sill, Vitale, Z, Megna.

These guys could, and should, be Craig Adams natural replacement(s). They are at least as good as Adams right now, but they haven't reached their ceiling in terms of talent. So why not nurture that some? Stop giving Adams EVERY SINGLE crack at the first PK shift. Once or twice a game toss Vitale, or someone else, out there to get his feet wet. Let them slowly grow into that role.

I'm not saying cut him and send him back to Brunei, but lets cut back on his minutes some (maybe scratch him a game here and there). Who knows, maybe it will keep him fresher come the stretch run and playoffs and he gets a burst. Maybe it will make him realize he needs to bone up on some things to keep a regular spot.

Adams is putting out on the 17th green of his career (generous I think, but I'll give him some slack... I'd say he's hitting his approach shot on 18) and he's going to give you exactly what you see. Lets see what these younger guys have. They are still cheap and under control for some years and haven't shown their potential.

 

[Winger for Hire]

+ Great win
- Another Pokemon gif made at the expense of much more important things

Another great one... love it!

 

[KeepitinPitt]

My problem with Adams is that ANYBODY can do what he does.

I don't necessarily agree with that. We've had countless players on this team throughout the years that couldn't do what Craig Adams does. That's not saying he's incredible, but he's a solid, cheap fourth liner. I agree that we have guys in the pipeline that can take his place. I don't have any issues with that. I just don't see the need in making him out to be a worse player than he is.

To be honest, I'm much more worried about our third line than our fourth. If anyone should be getting called out more it's Sutter and Juice, in my opinion. They have to get better or they need to be replaced.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

My problem with Adams is that ANYBODY can do what he does.

Agreed. And "anybody" could be a younger, faster, hungrier player who wouldn't be given a "1st line defensive specialist protect the lead" liability role on the wing of Crosby or Geno late in close games.

For the record Adams was on the ice not covering Krejci on the game-tying goal against Boston and was also on the ice not picking up a man in front of the net when Engelland blew a clearing attempt late in the Columbus game to ruin Fleury's shutout.

 

[KeepitinPitt]

Agreed. And "anybody" could be a younger, faster, hungrier player who wouldn't be given a "1st line defensive specialist protect the lead" liability role on the wing of Crosby or Geno late in close games.

For the record Adams was on the ice not covering Krejci on the game-tying goal against Boston and was also on the ice not picking up a man in front of the net when Engelland blew a clearing attempt late in the Columbus game to ruin Fleury's shutout.

Adams was covering Chara in front of the net when Krejci scored. He wasn't just standing around doing nothing.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Adams was covering Chara in front of the net when Krejci scored. He wasn't just standing around doing nothing.

The centering pass came from behind the net right through his skates; Chara couldn't have reached it. He had to move his skates in order to let the pass go through. Too much to ask for that defensive ace to kick a puck out from the middle of the ice?