WHL makes promise to Nanaimo ahead of rink vote

[Killemdeader]

http://www.iheartradio.ca/cfax-1070/news/whl-makes-promise-to-nanaimo-ahead-of-rink-vote-1.2455443

Thoughts? If the vote goes through they'll be in Nanaimo for the start of next season. Who's moving?

Click to read more...

 

[Que]

If it happens it would likely be the Kootenay Ice. Their new owner has expressed his desire to make the WHL franchise as profitable as possible, by all means necessary.

However, getting support for borrowing up to 80 million dollars in a proclaimed retirement capital should be next to impossible. Especially considering they've had a WHL franchise before, or so I've been told.

 

[The Nemesis]

http://www.iheartradio.ca/cfax-1070/news/whl-makes-promise-to-nanaimo-ahead-of-rink-vote-1.2455443

Thoughts? If the vote goes through they'll be in Nanaimo for the start of next season. Who's moving?

From the research and number-crunching I did, Kootenay looks like the odds-on favorite to move. There are articles out there suggesting the team has been for sale for a few years and is getting antsy for a new owner (as of April of last year the Chynoweths own the entire team, but I've seen things from 2017 that still suggest the for sale signs are up and President Jeff Chynoweth has apparently recently called the ownership situation "stale"). There's also talk that the Ice fanbase is kind of aging out of relevance as it tilts more and more towards retirees and less towards kids and young families without any apparent appetite to replenish the fanbase.

Also, their attendance has routinely been at or near the bottom of the league both in terms of raw # of butts in the seats (they have the lowest 3-year average of fans per game based on hockeydb figures at just under 2,000 fans per game) and how much of their home arena's capacity they take up (their 43% of capacity figure 4th lowest, but that's with them playing out of an arena that seats 4,654. The teams with a smaller %capacity figure are Calgary, Edmonton, and Saskatoon, who all play out of arenas that seat 15,000+. Kootenay is playing out of like the 4th smallest WHL arena in terms of capacity, and yet is the only team that manages less than 50% capacity while playing in a "pro-sized" arena)

I don't know what else is out there for attractive movement possibilities. Prince Albert and Swift Current are the other usual attendance basement-dwellers, but both teams are (from what I understand) community-owned and super unlikely to be relocation considerations because of it.

The Giants might've been an option when they were looking to get out of the Pacific Coliseum, but having just moved to Langley and signed a 10-year lease, and with attendance that is in the middle of the pack on average and top 1/5th of the league in % capacity in spite of being an absolute tire fire on the ice they probably get at least 3-5 years to prove themselves before any renewed talk of relocation. At the very least they kind of need a better team to cheer for to see if fans will show up more. I want to say that the Giants games at the LEC in 2010 during the Olympics were close to sold out every time, so the appetite is there for good hockey where you can draw from the collective non-Vancouver GVRD (and selfishly as a Langley resident and Giants season ticket holder I don't want the team leaving. I followed them in Vancouver and follow them more now. I don't think I could stick with a team that moved somewhere well out-of-market.)

Kootenay just seems like the only plausible option at this point.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Already cast my vote for Yes on the first advanced voting day. However, I don't think the referendum will be successful. Whether or not city council pushes the event centre through regardless of the outcome is another story though.

 

[ADK34]

If Kootenay leaves, is BCHL possible as a replacement?

 

[Sidekick]

If Kootenay leaves, is BCHL possible as a replacement?

I mean if an owner wants to do it, then yes Cranbrook is an excellent Tier 2 Jr.A candidate. I would think it would be more feasible playing in the AJHL...but again I'm not the guy fronting the money!

 

[Hordichuk_24]

Kootenay is absolutely the team to move if/when a new arena is built. The league has been wanting to relocate them for years now.

 

[tank44]

Especially considering they've had a WHL franchise before, or so I've been told.

Nanaimo had a team for just 1 season (82-83) when there was a lot of relocations going on and it seemed like it was just a placeholder for New Westminster which just lots its team for 1 season. In that same time frame, the following cities lost teams and then got new ones: Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Kelowna, Victoria, & Seattle. nanaimo's population has also probably doubled since then

E: My parents have voted YES but fear it may not pass due to all the old people not wanting any new taxes

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Nanaimo had a team for just 1 season (82-83) when there was a lot of relocations going on and it seemed like it was just a placeholder for New Westminster which just lots its team for 1 season. In that same time frame, the following cities lost teams and then got new ones: Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Kelowna, Victoria, & Seattle. nanaimo's population has also probably doubled since then

E: My parents have voted YES but fear it may not pass due to all the old people not wanting any new taxes

I voted yes and also feel that this proposal will be defeated.

 

[Stive Morgan]

As I expected, the result seems to be a resounding "NO."

 

[Hansen]

As it should be, this needs way more planning and their intended location was not going to happen.

Should be revisited but with proper support and plans.

 

[PCSPounder]

Revisited with private money?

I don't think 80% against is because of location. 80% is because of principle. That's not something you simply "revisit" if the issue is how you bring this before voters.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Revisited with private money?

I don't think 80% against is because of location. 80% is because of principle. That's not something you simply "revisit" if the issue is how you bring this before voters.

It's because the people have no faith in our city council to get the project done right (and to be fair our council is quite pathetic)

I thought it was worth the risk though.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Not interested in paying more in taxes. Build it with private money and get back to me.

 

[McHaNugYakEbNurDra]

This is good news for the Kootenay Ice...now we can only hope that the price comes down on the team enough to get local ownership, and keep the team where it belongs....in the Kootenay's.

 

[Hordichuk_24]

This is good news for the Kootenay Ice...now we can only hope that the price comes down on the team enough to get local ownership, and keep the team where it belongs....in the Kootenay's.

I wouldn't say it's good news necessarily. Maybe you could argue it delays the inevitable but I think it just makes the league look at other options. I don't think their view on that franchise is going to change just because this option has been shot down.

 

[McHaNugYakEbNurDra]

I wouldn't say it's good news necessarily. Maybe you could argue it delays the inevitable but I think it just makes the league look at other options. I don't think their view on that franchise is going to change just because this option has been shot down.

The rumour in Cranbrook was that our owner already had a local buyer lined up when the Nanaimo option came up, and he pulled out of negotiations because of it. Now that the Nanaimo option looks much less likely, hopefully the local owner comes through and the team stays here.

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

This is good news for the Kootenay Ice...now we can only hope that the price comes down on the team enough to get local ownership, and keep the team where it belongs....in the Kootenay's.

Where it belongs in the Kootenay's? Explain. The team gets little to no fans every game, and has been that way for years. Ungrateful fan base in my eyes.

 

[McHaNugYakEbNurDra]

Where it belongs in the Kootenay's? Explain. The team gets little to no fans every game, and has been that way for years. Ungrateful fan base in my eyes.

For the last four years the attendance has been very bad agreed, but the team on the ice hasn't been great for the past two and attendance has to reflect that at least in part. Before that, the team averaged 2500-3500 per game every year, which isn't great when compared to say Calgary, but compared to Swift Current of PA, looks pretty good.

The fanbase in Cranbrook is very anti-owner and many people claim they will come back if they get a new owner (I think it's a poor excuse, as I'm not going to buy or not buy season tickets based on the ownership, but on the product on the ice...but that's the claim).

If we get new (local) owners and return to being a team averaging 2500-3000 fans per game or more, I see no reason to seek a new city to move them to...as has been pointed out before, there an't a lot of cities lining up to get a WHL franchise. Swift Current (according to HockeyDB) hasn't ever averaged much more than 2000 fans per game, and they are in a similar sized city to Cranbrook.

I don't believe that the WHL would rather see the team fold than relocate or remain in Cranbrook...but I suppose that remains to be seen.


Edit: as for being an ungrateful fanbase, yes agreed we have been spoiled to have 3 championships in less than 20 years, and having made the playoffs for ?16? straight years does make the fanbase more accustomed to winning than losing.

 

[paul-laus]

Not interested in paying more in taxes. Build it with private money and get back to me.[/QUOTE]

what do you mean "get back to you"? That at that point in time when somebody is prepared to eat the cost of an $80 million arena that is a boon for the community that you live in that you'll go through the painstaking task of mulling over whether in your heart you can accept somebody spending all that money to benefit your community? Wow.....the soul searching you'll have to endure...

 

[PCSPounder]

Not interested in paying more in taxes. Build it with private money and get back to me.[/QUOTE]

what do you mean "get back to you"? That at that point in time when somebody is prepared to eat the cost of an $80 million arena that is a boon for the community that you live in that you'll go through the painstaking task of mulling over whether in your heart you can accept somebody spending all that money to benefit your community? Wow.....the soul searching you'll have to endure...

80% of Nanaimo doesn't seem to think that it benefits the community... and your sales pitch really doesn't help.

And I'm not one to rail against public funding of arenas... but this is the age of a team throwing the costs of the arena at the community and taking the profits out of it. THAT has to change. The perception has gotten so bad that there are groups in cities who will fight against PRIVATE funding of arenas because they're afraid the private entity will pull a Columbus and goad the city into bailing them out. That should be a serious siren call.

 

[paul-laus]

80% of Nanaimo doesn't seem to think that it benefits the community... and your sales pitch really doesn't help.

And I'm not one to rail against public funding of arenas... but this is the age of a team throwing the costs of the arena at the community and taking the profits out of it. THAT has to change. The perception has gotten so bad that there are groups in cities who will fight against PRIVATE funding of arenas because they're afraid the private entity will pull a Columbus and goad the city into bailing them out. That should be a serious siren call.

You misinterpreted what my point was. The wording I quoted seemed bizarre and distorted in the sense that the poster suggested that if the project were to be privately funded with no taxpayer involvement, then "to get back to him" as if to suggest that if that he'd still have to go through a process of deducing whether the project was right for the city.....If it was being privately funded why would his reaction not be "If there was no public funding needed, and someone is eating the costs, I'd be all for it!...?

 

[n00bxQb]

Clippers likely leaving Nanaimo after years of the owners trying to sell the team. Owners gave two weeks for someone to buy the team.

 

[MeHateHe]

80% of Nanaimo doesn't seem to think that it benefits the community... and your sales pitch really doesn't help.

And I'm not one to rail against public funding of arenas... but this is the age of a team throwing the costs of the arena at the community and taking the profits out of it. THAT has to change. The perception has gotten so bad that there are groups in cities who will fight against PRIVATE funding of arenas because they're afraid the private entity will pull a Columbus and goad the city into bailing them out. That should be a serious siren call.

The problem with this proposal was not the fact that it was being funded with public money, but that it was rushed, and was rushed primarily because of an artificial deadline set by the WHL.

Having followed politics in BC at the provincial and municipal level for two decades, I can't think of a single major project that went from conception to referendum in less than three months. That timeline is crazy for an $80 million project in a city of less than 100,000. I've talked to people who have sat as municipal councillors in communities around the province; they said the way to get something like this approved is to put it in front of the public for a year to 18 months, but to start talking about the actual benefits beyond a WHL team - which would fill the building 36 nights a year.

Nanaimo is pretty well suited to be an entertainment hub for about 300,000 people from Duncan (20 minutes south) to Campbell River (90 minutes north). A 5,000-seat arena brings in a lot of B-List acts. You don't get the major arena shows, but a lot of good Canadian bands would come to a facility like that, plus some of the aging rock shows and the up-coming acts. Shows that people would have otherwise had to go to Victoria to see would add a date in Nanaimo with a facility of that size, which is a net benefit to the community, beyond the addition of another ice facility. Then you have the possibility of attracting significant sports championships (World Women's tournament, perhaps or national or world curling championships) and you start to see an advantage to a new facility.

But the entire proposal was "vote to spend $80 million for a hastily planned arena and we'll bring the Kootenay Ice here." That was doomed to fail.

 

[Hordichuk_24]

The rumour in Cranbrook was that our owner already had a local buyer lined up when the Nanaimo option came up, and he pulled out of negotiations because of it. Now that the Nanaimo option looks much less likely, hopefully the local owner comes through and the team stays here.

I heard that rumor. I think blaming the Chynoweth's for the lack of support is a cop out. Even when the Ice were doing well and winning championships the fan support was subpar at best. I'm not one to wish for any city to lose their team but I think in this instance the writing has been on the wall for a very long time. Cranbrook isn't a viable WHL market and the team would be better off elsewhere, IMO.