Which team wins in a 7 game series?

Well?


  • Total voters
    31

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,266
17,804
North Carolina
It's hard to tell at the moment, since we don't really have an idea of how team Waddell will actually perform.

But Team Francis has better goaltending, and is less likely to have issues scoring, which offsets the slight edge Team Waddell has on defense.

So RF

I feel there's a lot of underselling of Petr Mrazek. He was a total shit show for Philly post-trade but prior to that he was mostly average to above average. You cannot overlook the total train wreck defense that Detroit has iced over the last 2 seasons.

I'll take the team w/Mrazek on it as I'm fairly certain he'll easily outplay Darling to get the starter's spot.
 

cptjeff

Reprehensible User
Sep 18, 2008
20,616
34,896
Washington, DC.
Team Francis would be a perimeter based team. Lots of weak shots that make the possession numbers look good without actually accomplishing anything. Same old, same old, another year out of the playoffs, another year older.

Waddell is at least trying to change a vision for the team that has miserably failed over and over and over again. I think he'll get results. Just, you know, goaltending.
 

Svechhammer

THIS is hockey?
Jun 8, 2017
23,792
87,624
How can it be Team Ward when Francis brought Darling in to be the starter?

Starters for both team would be Darls... For better and much mostly worst
 
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geehaad

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Aug 24, 2006
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My Special Purpose

Registered User
Apr 8, 2008
8,151
21,787
I feel there's a lot of underselling of Petr Mrazek. He was a total **** show for Philly post-trade but prior to that he was mostly average to above average. You cannot overlook the total train wreck defense that Detroit has iced over the last 2 seasons.

I'll take the team w/Mrazek on it as I'm fairly certain he'll easily outplay Darling to get the starter's spot.

Team Francis would be a perimeter based team. Lots of weak shots that make the possession numbers look good without actually accomplishing anything. Same old, same old, another year out of the playoffs, another year older.

Waddell is at least trying to change a vision for the team that has miserably failed over and over and over again. I think he'll get results. Just, you know, goaltending.

There's literally *no* conversation we can have in August about the Hurricanes that doesn't come down to goaltending. Frame it any which way you want, but it all comes down to goaltending -- and I suspect we all know that. To me, that makes all these exercises kind of a waste of time. I get we all want to have a normal off-season like fans of other teams, but we're Canes fans. We should know better. For better or worse, between the sunk-cost of Darling and the lack of options that would move the needle much, we have what we have in goal.

But there are two reasons that I feel better about the team now than I did under Francis/Peters.

No. 1, is the new emphasis on playing the game hard. I honestly think we've gotten used to pointing at the shot clock and saying that our guys are playing well, but there's a lot more to hockey than mere possession, and this regime seems to get it. I think this alone is going to make us more dangerous.

And reason No. 2 is that the hive-mind has shown that it can be bold. This is big because I don't think the new group is going to let a season get away from us like the previous one did. One of the reasons we're in the Darling jam is that Francis/Peters sat on their a$$es and just kept dressing him. If they had done something -- anything -- to intervene, we'd at least have a better understanding of Darling's ability to put last season behind him. Instead, we learned nothing. If it's November and neither Darling/Mrazek have shown anything, I believe this group will act.

I like the Hamilton trade. Not just because we got an ultra-talented player, and getting ultra-talented players is a good thing, but because we actually *acted* on information that previous leadership ignored, evidently thinking it would change. Noah Hanifin showed us he was unlikely to hit the ceiling some projected of him in his draft year. Elias Lindholm showed us that he could be terrific when engaged and properly motivated, but that he was rarely engaged and properly motivated, preferring to blend in instead of make any real difference.

I'm not crazy about the return, but I also like moving Skinner. He has shown us over *eight* seasons that he's just not willing to pay the price to win hockey games. He'd rather try to skate through an entire team, take a dive, and bark at the refs than backcheck. He has *shown* us that we can't use him in situations he's otherwise seemingly built for -- like the power play, overtime, etc. -- because we can't count on him to keep the puck out of his own net.

Past seasons have to count for something, otherwise, why did we both to play them? That's accountability. These guys showed us who they are. This group is holding them accountable. I'm good with that.

Plus, it shows the intestinal fortitude that this organization has been missing forever and a day. They've made some decisions that weren't popular -- to put it mildly -- but it hasn't stopped them from doing what they felt was the right thing. I know we've railed against the "country club atmosphere" or the "organizational nepotism" that former regimes employed, but this one comes in and burns it all to the ground, installs a new culture of accountability, and for some reason, we don't like it.

Change is hard. I get it. But this was utterly necessary. (Maybe not Chuck Kaiton, but the rest of it, for sure.) We're going to be so much better off, and I think it starts right away.
 
Last edited:

Navin R Slavin

Fifth line center
Jan 1, 2011
16,209
63,605
Durrm NC
There's literally *no* conversation we can have in August about the Hurricanes that doesn't come down to goaltending. Frame it any which way you want, but it all comes down to goaltending -- and I suspect we all know that. To me, that makes all these exercises kind of a waste of time. I get we all want to have a normal off-season like fans of other teams, but we're Canes fans. We should know better. For better or worse, between the sunk-cost of Darling and the lack of options that would move the needle much, we have what we have in goal.

But there are two reasons that I feel better about the team now than I did under Francis/Peters.

No. 1, is the new emphasis on playing the game hard. I honestly think we've gotten used to pointing at the shot clock and saying that our guys are playing well, but there's a lot more to hockey than mere possession, and this regime seems to get it. I think this alone is going to make us more dangerous.

And reason No. 2 is that the hive-mind has shown that it can be bold. This is big because I don't think the new group is going to let a season get away from us like the previous one did. One of the reasons we're in the Darling jam is that Francis/Peters sat on their a$$es and just kept dressing him. If they had done something -- anything -- to intervene, we'd at least have a better understanding of Darling's ability to put last season behind him. Instead, we learned nothing. If it's November and neither Darling/Mrazek have shown anything, I believe this group will act.

I like the Hamilton trade. Not just because we got an ultra-talented player, and getting ultra-talented players is a good thing, but because we actually *acted* on information that previous leadership ignored, evidently thinking it would change. Noah Hanifin showed us he was unlikely to hit the ceiling some projected of him in his draft year. Elias Lindholm showed us that he could be terrific when engaged and properly motivated, but that he was rarely engaged and properly motivated, preferring to blend in instead of make any real difference.

I'm not crazy about the return, but I also like moving Skinner. He has shown us over *eight* seasons that he's just not willing to pay the price to win hockey games. He'd rather try to skate through an entire team, take a dive, and bark at the refs than backcheck. He has *shown* us that we can't use him in situations he's built for -- like the power play, overtime, etc. -- because we can't count on him to keep the puck out of his own net.

Plus, it shows the intestinal fortitude that this organization has been missing forever and a day. They've made some decisions that weren't popular -- to put it mildly -- but it hasn't stopped them from doing what they felt was the right thing. I know we've railed against the "country club atmosphere" or the "organizational nepotism" that former regimes employed, but this one comes in and burns it all to the ground, installs a new culture of accountability, and for some reason, we don't like it.

Change is hard. I get it. But this was utterly necessary. (Maybe not Chuck Kaiton, but the rest of it, for sure.) We're going to be so much better off, and I think it starts right away.

Counterpoint:

Maybe not!
 

Negan4Coach

Fantastic and Stochastic
Aug 31, 2017
5,802
14,725
Raleigh, NC
I get that this is a running joke, but *every* *single* *coach* of the Hurricanes has been derided for this same supposed fault. I don't watch other teams, but it seems to me that line shuffling is pretty standard fare for teams that are mediocre (or worse).

Yeah, for real- I remember reading outrage on here regarding Paul Maurice constantly juggling lines but I sure as shit bet that most folks here would take him back for a 3rd tour of duty.
 

Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
15,308
36,885
For purposes of this thread should team Francis get Svechnikov? Francis could've drafted Zadina or traded our first for ROR. Either way I don't think he should get Svech bc he was gone before we added him.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,196
48,524
Winston-Salem NC
For purposes of this thread should team Francis get Svechnikov? Francis could've drafted Zadina or traded our first for ROR. Either way I don't think he should get Svech bc he was gone before we added him.
Why shouldn't he get Svechnikov? Seriously. 2nd OA was still 2nd OA. To assume he would have taken the asinine route of things with the pick when there's no track record of him doing so would be insanity. It's like arguing that he shouldn't get to use Necas because he would have re-signed Derek Ryan. Why assume what there's absolutely no evidence to back up?

Waddell has the superior D.

And a vastly inferior starting goalie. And inferior scoring.
 
Last edited:

Big Daddy Cane

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Feb 8, 2010
13,339
31,899
Western PA

Only once did Francis and the amateur staff buck the consensus of the scouting community in the 1st round during his tenure. In that lone circumstance, you can argue that the organization had a clear need for the prospect at the more valuable position (LHD Fleury vs. LW Ritchie.) Svechnikov was the clear 2OA and center wasn't enough of a need to justify passing on him.

Francis was too patient of an executive to trade the pick for Ryan O'Reilly. C'mon now.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,196
48,524
Winston-Salem NC
Which may or may not end up being true.
I mean, it's possible that the brain trust goes out and gets something like Poolparty or Saad for Faulk, and they end up having a great season here in which case things flip the other direction. But as things stand right now I'd certainly from an offensive output standpoint take the team with Lindholm and Skinner rather easily over the one replacing them with Ferland and Maenalaenen/Saarela right now. Doesn't necessarily mean they'd be as off in terms of impact as their point total would indicate.

Goaltending is a no-brainer to me at this moment. Ward, even as mediocre as he was last year, was significantly better than Darling. Darling bouncing back by 20 points in save percentage would still at best bring them up to essentially equal.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,357
97,925
I mean, it's possible that the brain trust goes out and gets something like Poolparty or Saad for Faulk, and they end up having a great season here in which case things flip the other direction. But as things stand right now I'd certainly from an offensive output standpoint take the team with Lindholm and Skinner rather easily over the one replacing them with Ferland and Maenalaenen/Saarela right now. Doesn't necessarily mean they'd be as off in terms of impact as their point total would indicate.

Maybe, but:

1) Ferland and Hamilton scored only 12 less goals last year than Skinner, Hanifin, and Lindholm so that difference isn't as big as some are making it out to be. Plus, I think Faulk (if he stays) will be more effective with less responsibilities now that Hamilton is on the team. Rask may get more opportunities with Lindholm gone as well.
2) Assuming that Svech, Necas, Zykov, etc.. would get the same offensive opportunity as they would if Skinner and Lindholm were on the team isn't a good assumption IMO. There's only so much TOI to go around.
3) Assuming that Peters would give rookies a fair shake on TOI isn't a good assumption based on his history.
4) Assuming a Peter's coached team will get as much offense as a Brindy coached team may or may not be valid.

These "what-ifs" are fun, but they are fraught with faulty and/or unknown assumptions, thus my "may or may not be" statement.

Goaltending is a no-brainer to me at this moment. Ward, even as mediocre as he was last year, was significantly better than Darling. Darling bouncing back by 20 points in save percentage would still at best bring them up to essentially equal.

It's not really ward vs. Darling.

It's Darling last year vs. Darling this year.
It's Mrazek vs. Ward.

I agree that with everything I know right now, I'd pick Ward > Mrazek, but Mrazek had some stretches of pretty decent play which might mean he plays well this year. And team defense has an impact on goaltending so if the team defense is superior, it could mean the goaltending is less of an issue as well.
 

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