Which group of forwards will be better?

[Northern Avs Fan]

Which group of forwards will end up better after their careers finish?

Vets

Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane, Stamkos


Younger Guys

McDavid, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Matthews, Eichel

Click to read more...

 

[bobholly39]

Ovechkin tips the scale. Malkin too

Mcdavid can probably pace Crosby (but passing him is a huge stretch, if not impossible) - but no one will touch Ovechkin all time nor even Malkin from other group

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Group 1 has

-8x lindsay
-7x hart
-6x ross
-13x rocket
-5x smythe
-18x 1st AST
-10x cups

Group 2 has (assuming they win the hart+lindsay this year)

-3x lindsay
-2x hart
-3x ross
-0x rocket
-0x smythe
-4x 1st AST
-0x cups

Awards aren't everything obviously, but 39-8 is a huge difference. 10-0 cups is huge too. But the biggest thing is the players in group 1 are just better. 4/5 won the Hart, lindsay, smythe and ross. 3/5 won the rocket. In group 2 McDavid has 5/8 awards (assuming Draisaitl gets the hart+lindsay this year). MacK, Eichel and Matthews are clearly dragging the group down.

And of course, group 1 has Crosby and OV who, if they aren't already, will be top 10 players when they retire. McDavid is the only one who has the potential to do that in group 2 and he needs everything to go right for him. I don't see any of the others passing Malkin or Kane. Easy choice.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Group 1 has

-8x lindsay
-7x hart
-6x ross
-13x rocket
-5x smythe
-18x 1st AST
-10x cups

Group 2 has (assuming they win the hart+lindsay this year)

-3x lindsay
-2x hart
-3x ross
-0x rocket
-0x smythe
-4x 1st AST
-0x cups

Awards aren't everything obviously, but 39-8 is a huge difference. 10-0 cups is huge too. But the biggest thing is the players in group 1 are just better. 4/5 won the Hart, lindsay, smythe and ross. 3/5 won the rocket. In group 2 McDavid has 5/8 awards (assuming Draisaitl gets the hart+lindsay this year). MacK, Eichel and Matthews are clearly dragging the group down.

And of course, group 1 has Crosby and OV who, if they aren't already, will be top 10 players when they retire. McDavid is the only one who has the potential to do that in group 2 and he needs everything to go right for him. I don't see any of the others passing Malkin or Kane. Easy choice.

I picked the vets too.

Though I think it’s kind of unfair to compare awards at this stage of their careers. Group 2 is just entering their prime.

I agree though, I suspect the gap is too big to close.

I could see group 2 getting pretty close in points if they have healthy long careers, but even that’s tough to say since group one is still going strong lol

 

[Gurglesons]

I’ll be surprised if McDavid ends up having a better career than Ovi and Sid.

One of them was basically a Hart trophy lock for the first 10 years of their careers.

McDavid has already lost multiple Hart’s.

 

[bobholly39]

I’ll be surprised if McDavid ends up having a better career than Ovi and Sid.

One of them was basically a Hart trophy lock for the first 10 years of their careers.

McDavid has already lost multiple Hart’s.

Naw - McDavid is the most realistic one to pace the old guys. He's looking great 5 years in, and even if he falls a bit short (which I expect) at least you can see why it could be close.

Let's say McDavid paces one of Crosby/Ovi. Let's even be generous and say Crosby. Both end up to 10 players of all-time.

ok - but Ovechkin is at worst top 15 all time, maybe even top 10 himself. Who else in group 2 do we expect to end up top 50 all time, let alone top 15?
Malkin himself - he's also top 50. Not top 15, I'd have him in that ~30-40 range all time when he retires. Again - will anyone in group 2 finish so high? I don't see it. Drai is still young and just exploded this year - if he has more of that and has 3-4 more seasons of 120 points, it's not impossible, but still completely unlikely. Mack won't reach that high, nor will Matthews/Eichel.

I think both Stamkos and Kane are having incredible careers, Kane with the extra help with playoffs. I think any of Mackinnon, Matthews, Eichel or Drai could possibly pace/surpass them 2 slightly if they reach the top ceiling of their projections. But - that's their max, and they'd still only be close to Stamkos/Kane. More likely most fall a bit short.

5 vs 5 it just isn't close at all. The young ones won't touch the vets

 

[slapKing]

Vets. Even though there's a possibility McDavid can best Crosby when it's all said and done, the other younger players won't match Ovechkin.

 

[CatchyTune]

Going with the vets.

I dont think anyone can replicate what Crosby has done. Mcdavid could outscore him but from the 3 cups to the golden goal, I dont think anyone can reach Crosbys legacy.

As far as the others go, they can absolutely be better players than the latter. At least individually. Team success is my concern.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I picked the vets too.

Though I think it’s kind of unfair to compare awards at this stage of their careers. Group 2 is just entering their prime.

I agree though, I suspect the gap is too big to close.

I could see group 2 getting pretty close in points if they have healthy long careers, but even that’s tough to say since group one is still going strong lol

Age at calendar year end

McDavid: 23
Matthews: 23
Eichel: 24
Draisaitl: 25
MacK: 25
Average: 24

So at age 24, group 1 has:
-3x lindsay (2/5 won)
-2x hart (2/5)
-3x ross (2/5)
-0x rocket
-0x smythe
-4x 1st AST (2/5)
-0x cups

By age 24, group 2 had:
-3x lindsay (2/5)
-3x hart (2/5)
-3x ross (3/5)
-5x rocket (3/5)
-1x smythe
-8x 1st AST (4/5)
-3x cups (3/5)

15-8 awards and 3-0 cups at the same age. Huge advantage for group 2. Especially when we consider that McDavid is basically providing everything for group 1 (5/8 awards). MacK, Eichel and Matthews haven't done anything to prove they belong in this conversation.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Going with the vets.

I dont think anyone can replicate what Crosby has done. Mcdavid could outscore him but from the 3 cups to the golden goal, I dont think anyone can reach Crosbys legacy.

As far as the others go, they can absolutely be better players than the latter. At least individually. Team success is my concern.

Lol. None of those players will have half the career of OV. Might want to check how they compare at the same age. Malkin and Kane are out of reach too. Maybe they can catch Stamkos but that's it.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Age at calendar year end

McDavid: 23
Matthews: 23
Eichel: 24
Draisaitl: 25
MacK: 25
Average: 24

So at age 24, group 1 has:
-3x lindsay (2/5 won)
-2x hart (2/5)
-3x ross (2/5)
-0x rocket
-0x smythe
-4x 1st AST (2/5)
-0x cups

By age 24, group 2 had:
-3x lindsay (2/5)
-3x hart (2/5)
-3x ross (3/5)
-5x rocket (3/5)
-1x smythe
-8x 1st AST (4/5)
-3x cups (3/5)

15-8 awards and 3-0 cups at the same age. Huge advantage for group 2. Especially when we consider that McDavid is basically providing everything for group 1 (5/8 awards). MacK, Eichel and Matthews haven't done anything to prove they belong in this conversation.

I like the vets group as well.

They have a nice mix of guys who have either won a ton of awards, dominated in the playoffs, or put up big point totals.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Had to go with group 1. Just too much talent there.

Matthews was the only sure-fire-mega-star in group 2.

 

[CraigsList]

You're putting a top 5/10 player when all is said and done, a top Russian center that would've been higher ranked if not for injuries (who can be better than Crosby sometimes), arguably the best scorer to ever play, arguably the best American player to play the game, and also a top consistent center that potted 60 goals at one point.

Hard to not vote for the vets.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I like the vets group as well.

They have a nice mix of guys who have either won a ton of awards, dominated in the playoffs, or put up big point totals.

We agree on the vets, I'd just like to say though that it's not "either" or "or". Outside of Stamkos (who has a monster peak season), the other 4 have a ton of awards AND dominant playoff runs AND monster peak seasons. OV, Crosby, Malkin and Kane all have the ross/hart/lindsay/smythe combo which is incredible and honestly I don't see any of the kids doing that, forget 4 of them. The only thing the kids have so far is a monster season from Draisaitl (which isn't on the level of OV 08, Malkin 12 or Kane 16) and McDavid doing his part for awards. They have no playoffs, nowhere close in peak seasons, outside of McDavid basically no awards. Pretty much impossible at this point.

 

[BertMcDrai]

We agree on the vets, I'd just like to say though that it's not "either" or "or". Outside of Stamkos (who has a monster peak season), the other 4 have a ton of awards AND dominant playoff runs AND monster peak seasons. OV, Crosby, Malkin and Kane all have the ross/hart/lindsay/smythe combo which is incredible and honestly I don't see any of the kids doing that, forget 4 of them. The only thing the kids have so far is a monster season from Draisaitl (which isn't on the level of OV 08, Malkin 12 or Kane 16) and McDavid doing his part for awards. They have no playoffs, nowhere close in peak seasons, outside of McDavid basically no awards. Pretty much impossible at this point.

I think Drai`s season is comparable to Malkin 12 and Kane 16 but fort the rest of your post I can easily agree.
Also put in Kucherov for Eichel.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

We agree on the vets, I'd just like to say though that it's not "either" or "or". Outside of Stamkos (who has a monster peak season), the other 4 have a ton of awards AND dominant playoff runs AND monster peak seasons. OV, Crosby, Malkin and Kane all have the ross/hart/lindsay/smythe combo which is incredible and honestly I don't see any of the kids doing that, forget 4 of them. The only thing the kids have so far is a monster season from Draisaitl (which isn't on the level of OV 08, Malkin 12 or Kane 16) and McDavid doing his part for awards. They have no playoffs, nowhere close in peak seasons, outside of McDavid basically no awards. Pretty much impossible at this point.

It seems like you’re kind of arguing with yourself here. I’m agreeing with you. I like the vets in this poll.

 

[CatchyTune]

Lol. None of those players will have half the career of OV. Might want to check how they compare at the same age. Malkin and Kane are out of reach too. Maybe they can catch Stamkos but that's it.

Thanks for the unbiased input guy with an Ovechkin pfp

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Thanks for the unbiased input guy with an Ovechkin pfp

It has nothing to do with bias, it's common sense.

 

[Gavy]

It has nothing to do with bias, it's common sense.

You literally just said none will have half the career of Ovi... iT hAs NoThInG tO dO wItH bIaS

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

You literally just said none will have half the career of Ovi... iT hAs NoThInG tO dO wItH bIaS

Outside of McDavid, no the others won't. MacK, Eichel and Matthews have shown absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise. Maybe go back and check what OV had done at their age.

Edit: just to confirm

Age at calendar year end
Matthews: 23
Eichel: 24
MacK: 25
Average: 24

So at age 24, these 3 have
-0x lindsay
-0x hart
-0x ross
-0x rocket
-0x smythe
-0x 1st AST
-0x cups

By age 24, OV had
-2x lindsay
-2x hart
-1x ross
-2x rocket
-0x smythe
-4x 1st AST
-0x cups

The 3 of them combined won't even have half the career of OV, no idea how anyone can think 1 will lol. They are off to a great start though.

 

[Gavy]

Outside of McDavid, no the others won't. MacK, Eichel and Matthews have shown absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise. Maybe go back and check what OV had done at their age.

Edit: just to confirm

Age at calendar year end
Matthews: 23
Eichel: 24
MacK: 25
Average: 24

So at age 24, these 3 have
-0x lindsay
-0x hart
-0x ross
-0x rocket
-0x smythe
-0x 1st AST
-0x cups

By age 24, OV had
-2x lindsay
-2x hart
-1x ross
-2x rocket
-0x smythe
-4x 1st AST
-0x cups

The 3 of them combined won't even have half the career of OV, no idea how anyone can think 1 will lol. They are off to a great start though.

Just to confirm, you dont think between MacK, Eich and Auston, they wont score half of the goals or get half of the awards Ovi has?

 

[CatchyTune]

It has nothing to do with bias, it's common sense.

Outside of McDavid, no the others won't. MacK, Eichel and Matthews have shown absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise. Maybe go back and check what OV had done at their age.

Edit: just to confirm

Age at calendar year end
Matthews: 23
Eichel: 24
MacK: 25
Average: 24

So at age 24, these 3 have
-0x lindsay
-0x hart
-0x ross
-0x rocket
-0x smythe
-0x 1st AST
-0x cups

By age 24, OV had
-2x lindsay
-2x hart
-1x ross
-2x rocket
-0x smythe
-4x 1st AST
-0x cups

The 3 of them combined won't even have half the career of OV, no idea how anyone can think 1 will lol. They are off to a great start though.

The first 5 years of Ovechkins career were his best. Since 2010-11 he has 749 points in 756 games. Not even a PPG player.

I know he is a goalscorer, but you dont think prime Matthews can average 50+ goals a year?

Not every players career are linear to eachother. Look at Mackinnons first few years in the league. Ovechkin peaked in his early years. It is absolutely achievable for those guys to be better players than him.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Lol. None of those players will have half the career of OV. Might want to check how they compare at the same age. Malkin and Kane are out of reach too. Maybe they can catch Stamkos but that's it.

Eichel says hi

 

[The Abusement Park]

The first 5 years of Ovechkins career were his best. Since 2010-11 he has 749 points in 756 games. Not even a PPG player.

I know he is a goalscorer, but you dont think prime Matthews can average 50+ goals a year?

Not every players career are linear to eachother. Look at Mackinnons first few years in the league. Ovechkin peaked in his early years. It is absolutely achievable for those guys to be better players than him.

It’d be pretty tough. Hardly anyone averages 50 goals a year. I mean Ovi is the GOAT goal scorer and has averaged 50 goals a year, and while Matthews is a damn good goal scorer he’s still a bit behind Ovi.

 

[CatchyTune]

It’d be pretty tough. Hardly anyone averages 50 goals a year. I mean Ovi is the GOAT goal scorer and has averaged 50 goals a year, and while Matthews is a damn good goal scorer he’s still a bit behind Ovi.

I already said in that post, Ovechkin seemed to peak in his first few years, goals and points wise. Matthews was on pace for 55 goals this year had the season not been put on hold. And he was much better once Keefe took over. I dont doubt he will be a consistent 50+ goal scorer.