Where does Albert Pujols rank among all-time greats?

[Islay1989]

Fraud
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Out of touch with reality. Reaches for outlandish conclusions to justify his inane views of the world.

 

[Perennial]

Out of touch with reality. Reaches for outlandish conclusions to justify his inane views of the world.

When you start making personal attacks instead of staying on topic, you've lost...

 

[bleedblue1223]

When you start making personal attacks instead of staying on topic, you've lost...

You are the one accusing Pujols of lying about his age by 3-4 or 6 years, and you are calling others out for personal attacks?

 

[Perennial]

You are the one accusing Pujols of lying about his age by 3-4 or 6 years, and you are calling others out for personal attacks?

I'm not accusing him, I'm saying it's a possibility...

 

[Islay1989]

When you start making personal attacks instead of staying on topic, you've lost...

Sure thing. Lost what? An internet argument with a guy who posts fairy tale fiction? Oh no!

 

[Perennial]

delete

 

[jcs0218]

I rank Pujols as the second best 1st-basemen of all time. Behind Gehrig.

Homeruns = 5th all time
Hits = 15th all time
Runs = 16th all time
Runs Batted In = 3rd all time

A career 0.299 hitter, with 2 World Series and 3 MVP Awards.

He could move up in some of those above rankings too, if he can stay healthy in 2021. Especially in the hits and runs categories. 90 hits and 50 runs, which is doable if he stays healthy, causes him to rise about 4-5 spots in both of those categories.

 

[Cas]

I rank Pujols as the second best 1st-basemen of all time. Behind Gehrig.

I think the only argument is between Gehrig and Pujols, with the argument primarily being about quality of competition (Gehrig played in an entirely segregated league eighty years ago).

I think Foxx was the best after Gehrig among the pre-integration first basemen (with Mize, Greenberg, Anson, Brouthers, and Connor), I would have a difficult time arguing for Foxx over Pujols, and no one more recent than that (Bagwell, Murray, McCovey, Killebrew, Thomas, McGwire, Thome, and half a dozen others) can compare.

 

[Perennial]

Out of touch with reality. Reaches for outlandish conclusions to justify his inane views of the world.

You are the one accusing Pujols of lying about his age by 3-4 or 6 years, and you are calling others out for personal attacks?

Sure thing. Lost what? An internet argument with a guy who posts fairy tale fiction? Oh no!

"There is not one person in baseball, not one executive, who believes Albert Pujols is the age that he says he is."

Former MLB exec says Albert Pujols has been lying about his age


So, does Pujols sue him for slander?

 

[darko]

I rank Pujols as the second best 1st-basemen of all time. Behind Gehrig.

Homeruns = 5th all time
Hits = 15th all time
Runs = 16th all time
Runs Batted In = 3rd all time

A career 0.299 hitter, with 2 World Series and 3 MVP Awards.

He could move up in some of those above rankings too, if he can stay healthy in 2021. Especially in the hits and runs categories. 90 hits and 50 runs, which is doable if he stays healthy, causes him to rise about 4-5 spots in both of those categories.

I've got him 3rd or 4th.

Gehrig
Foxx
Pujols/Greenberg

 

[Scandale du Jour]

"There is not one person in baseball, not one executive, who believes Albert Pujols is the age that he says he is."

Former MLB exec says Albert Pujols has been lying about his age


So, does Pujols sue him for slander?

Who cares.

If no one believes he is the age he says he is, that means the Angels knew the risk they were taking all along. The whole basis of your argument falls.

 

[Perennial]

Who cares.

If no one believes he is the age he says he is, that means the Angels knew the risk they were taking all along. The whole basis of your argument falls.

I care...

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I care...

Why? Because Pujols "defrauded" the Angels?

As I said, if "nobody believes Pujols is the age he says he is", it means the Angels did not believe him either and knew the risk they were taking.

In a court of law, they would then have to PROVE that he LIED to them and provided false documents or either stuff like that. If not, the judge would tell them "Well dumbasses, you did not believe he was the age he said he was and you still offered him that contract, sorry not sorry".

I am oversimplifying things, but that's basically what it would be.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Why? Because Pujols "defrauded" the Angels?

As I said, if "nobody believes Pujols is the age he says he is", it means the Angels did not believe him either and knew the risk they were taking.

In a court of law, they would then have to PROVE that he LIED to them and provided false documents or either stuff like that. If not, the judge would tell them "Well dumbasses, you did not believe he was the age he said he was and you still offered him that contract, sorry not sorry".

I am oversimplifying things, but that's basically what it would be.

Exactly. If they knew Pujols’ age, then how were they deceived?

I get his argument from a personal level, but there’s no defending the Angels here. This wasn’t a typical fa deal. This was the baseball equivalent to buying a mansion. If you buy a mansion you get every ‘I’ dotted and every ‘t’ crossed, be it physical or paperwork. If the Angels didn’t do that, that’s on them.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The age thing is a scandal, but Pujols is not the example you want to use really. The risk of him falling off a cliff performance-wise during that contract was extraordinarily high using even his 'official' age. And Pujols obviously had a tremendously productive career either way.

The real scandal are the cases where guys use fake ages to produce deceptively well at a (fake) young age as to pump up their performance potential in the eyes of scouts and team executives. Because those guys are screwing other kids out of jobs. Pujols perhaps did that at some point, too, but it's not like those scouts or execs who bet on him ever regretted it.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

The age thing is a scandal, but Pujols is not the example you want to use really. The risk of him falling off a cliff performance-wise during that contract was extraordinarily high using even his 'official' age. And Pujols obviously had a tremendously productive career either way.

The real scandal are the cases where guys use fake ages to produce deceptively well at a (fake) young age as to pump up their performance potential in the eyes of scouts and team executives. Because those guys are screwing other kids out of jobs. Pujols perhaps did that at some point, too, but it's not like those scouts or execs who bet on him ever regretted it.

Yeah, the issue is more with the Danny Almonte’s of the world than the Pujols’. The fact he could always hang with players 3-6 years older than him only showed he should have been up in those levels regardless of his real age.

 

[Perennial]

Why? Because Pujols "defrauded" the Angels?

As I said, if "nobody believes Pujols is the age he says he is", it means the Angels did not believe him either and knew the risk they were taking.

In a court of law, they would then have to PROVE that he LIED to them and provided false documents or either stuff like that. If not, the judge would tell them "Well dumbasses, you did not believe he was the age he said he was and you still offered him that contract, sorry not sorry".

I am oversimplifying things, but that's basically what it would be.

Yes, for the legality of it, but it also speaks to his character as a person if he knowingly misrepresented himself when signing his contract...

I'd argue that defrauding an MLB team should come with a lifetime ban from baseball

From both a legal and ethical standpoint, it's worse than what Pete Rose did...

 

[bleedblue1223]

LOL.

 

[Cas]

The competitive integrity of a game of baseball is not affected by the ages of the players on the field.

The competitive integrity of a game of baseball is affected by the manager of one of the participating teams having money riding on the outcome.

 

[Perennial]

The competitive integrity of a game of baseball is not affected by the ages of the players on the field.

The competitive integrity of a game of baseball is affected by the manager of one of the participating teams having money riding on the outcome.

Violating the rules of MLB isn't a criminal act... that's why none of the Houston Astros faced charges

Fraud, on the other hand, is a crime

 

[Cas]

You can't defraud someone if they don't believe you.

Moreover, players lying about their age or identify is nothing new in the sport. Tony Oliva claimed to be his younger brother, due to a passport mixup when he left Cuba. Satchel Paige regularly claimed to be a variety of ages.

Of course, this is also moot because there is as yet no actual evidence that Albert Pujols is not the age he claims to be, just supposition.

 

[Perennial]

You can't defraud someone if they don't believe you.

Moreover, players lying about their age or identify is nothing new in the sport. Tony Oliva claimed to be his younger brother, due to a passport mixup when he left Cuba. Satchel Paige regularly claimed to be a variety of ages.

Of course, this is also moot because there is as yet no actual evidence that Albert Pujols is not the age he claims to be, just supposition.

So, because other players have done it, that makes it okay for Pujols?

Spousal abuse is nothing new in sports, but we don't just shrug it off when it happens again...

 

[Cas]

Let's just go with the fact that I care about spousal abuse.

I do not care about allegations that Albert Pujols is not the age he claims to be, any more than I care about the same claims of players past. Don't care, not going to include it in my personal calculus.

 

[Perennial]

Let's just go with the fact that I care about spousal abuse.

I do not care about allegations that Albert Pujols is not the age he claims to be, any more than I care about the same claims of players past. Don't care, not going to include it in my personal calculus.

So, defrauding someone out of hundreds of millions of dollars is no big deal?

There should be zero consequences levied against someone who commits such an act?

This person's character and reputation remains untarnished in your opinion?

 

[Memento]

Yes, for the legality of it, but it also speaks to his character as a person if he knowingly misrepresented himself when signing his contract...

I'd argue that defrauding an MLB team should come with a lifetime ban from baseball

From both a legal and ethical standpoint, it's worse than what Pete Rose did...

Pete Rose literally bet on baseball outcomes as a player and a manager - which has legally been a lifetime ban from baseball and ethically bankrupt. Pujols is a better player and a better man than Rose.

And you really want to go down the slippery slope that "defrauding an MLB team should come with a lifetime ban"? So all of the Latin American players (who are teens/very young adults, for clarification - people don't make very smart decisions then. I know I didn't.) who use different names on their birth certificates for various reasons (Carlos Martinez comes to mind as one such example, and he didn't lie; he had his contract with the Red Sox voided because of a difference in his family name - and I'm sure he's not the only player who had those kinds of issues) get banned from baseball for good?

I get that Pujols didn't have his best years with the Angels (I'm assuming you're a Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim fan?), but you need to channel your inner Elsa and let it go. You still have Trout, and Pujols is almost at the end of his contract. So I honestly don't understand why you're so up-in-arms, calling him worse than Rose, saying he should be banned from baseball for something that has literally been happening for decades.