Where do you rank Messier on an all-time list?
- Thread starter Big Phil
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JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
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- Oct 8, 2010
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Dennis Bonvie
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vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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i would vote 21-26 if that was an option. i have him at 25 myself, but could be persuaded to put him anywhere in that range.
SidGenoMario
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
I could get in an argument about Messier with about 50% of people. I just can't see how he can be in the top-20, and it's tough to see him outside of the top-25 at the same time. 21-25 seems just perfect. Most people overrate Messier, but some underrate him, too.
Big Phil
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Really? I've been posting a ton of times. Maybe I haven't started a thread in a while though
David Bruce Banner
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overpass
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Messier's tough for me to rate. I like looking at the regular season stats, because it's where players play most of their games and it gives the largest sample to judge players on. Messier's numbers are less impressive than his reputation.
But if any player stepped up his game in the playoffs, it was Messier. So the regular season stats aren't really a fair test of his ability, even if they do represent most of his hockey played.
In the end, I'd go 21-25.
But if any player stepped up his game in the playoffs, it was Messier. So the regular season stats aren't really a fair test of his ability, even if they do represent most of his hockey played.
In the end, I'd go 21-25.
Gut feeling is that he is 25-30 but he might slip into 20-25 but his Vancouver years tarnished his reputation and I think his reputation was larger than he was as a player anyways.
It's kind of ironic that the guy behind him all time in adjusted points is Ron Francis who IMO was a slightly better offensive player than Mess and a better defensive guy too but didn't have as much playoff success ie. 6 Cups.
Also Francis was never considered as a top player during his playing days like Mess was but the gap between them is very small IMO.
It's kind of ironic that the guy behind him all time in adjusted points is Ron Francis who IMO was a slightly better offensive player than Mess and a better defensive guy too but didn't have as much playoff success ie. 6 Cups.
Also Francis was never considered as a top player during his playing days like Mess was but the gap between them is very small IMO.
RabbinsDuck
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The current hockey news top 100 players by position has him at #4 which is too high IMO and looking at it at 1st glance I would put him somewhere around 10 depending on how much one weighs his playoff accomplishments (which puts him higher) than his regular season (which might actually drop him down a bit.
tony d
New poll series coming from me on June 3
How does the 2nd ranked scorer of all time end up getting ranked 20+ ????? The hate on for one of the all time greats here is laughable 
BigPhil I rate him somewhere around the 8-10 range. He was one of the best playoff performers ever. That combined with him being the player to captain 2 teams to a cup + hart + conn smythe + 6 cups. Many claim that Messiers accomplishments were only attainable because of Gretz. This statement is so wrong. Messiers best season was after Gretz was gone, i think it was 89/90 130pts? To me he was a huge part in the Oilers dynasty and deserves more credit than many here on HF give him.
TheDevilMadeMe
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vadim sharifijanov
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hmmm,
1. gretzky
2. lemieux
3. beliveau
4. morenz
5. mikita
6. esposito
7-9 trottier, clarke, messier in some order
How does the 2nd ranked scorer of all time end up getting ranked 20+ ????? The hate on for one of the all time greats here is laughable
speaking only of centers, i don't think i have to justify having messier behind gretzky and lemieux. beliveau played in a lower scoring era but has more elite regular season scoring finishes, and was by most accounts not only a better leader than messier but also has a better playoff record. this is huge, being that messier's leadership (pre-vancouver) and playoff performance (ditto) are among the greatest of all time.
i have morenz, mikita, and espo ahead of the next group because 1. morenz was considered one of the two greatest players of all time before richard, 2. mikita equals messier's two hart trophies, and played in a lower scoring era while destroying messier in elite scoring finishes, and 3. espo also equals messier's harts and destroys him in elite scoring finishes.
Chairman Maouth
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SidGenoMario
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His raw numbers are impressive, but if you take the numbers in context he gets hurt in countless ways. He played on fantastic teams, he played in the 80's and early 90's when scoring was ridiculous, AND he played an unthinkable number of games. Knowing all that, I don't see how you can be that impressed with his numbers. He finished top-3 in scoring a grand total of 2 times. Very unimpressive. His leadership is vastly overrated. He might have been one of the worst captains in league history during his time in Vancouver. And cups are a team accomplishment. Not top 10 material.
