When should the RFA's be extended?

[CBJx614]

There is no correct answer, as much as some would like to force their opinion that there is down our throats.

There are two sides to the negotiation. In a lot of cases they do not have the same goals. A team has to consider the cap, agents and their players don't. We aren't even getting into factors like signing bonuses, or when they are going to become a UFA (how many UFA years is the player going to give up). Some players recently want to test UFA ASAP. Some players want to have stability. Some players have jerks for agents. You take each situation and deal with them individually.

I rarely get upset about time required to negotiate with a RFA, UFA's can be different as you have to figure out if you're going to be able to keep them. Now when the deal is done for a RFA, I can look at the contract and give my thoughts on that. I tend to find JK a mixed bag, some of his FA deals have been outstanding some have been what I consider horrible. Having said that I think he makes up a bit for any issues with some of his trades. I

Exactly this. Came to post the bolded.

Every single situation is different. Maybe Wennberg plays differently if he doesn't have a long term deal and got bridged. The FO probably thought they were gonna save some money by signing him for 4.9 long term compared to a bridge and a big contract after that. Sometimes it works(Jones) and sometimes it doesn't. Or vice versa, maybe a player wants a huge contract(Johansen) and you tell him prove it and you'll get it. Then you have to put your money where your mouth is and pay up on the next contract...or trade them

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I want to clarify "pulling a Wennie" here. The reason Wennberg's failure sucks for us is because he isn't the top six C that we need. His contract is another matter. We could move it with minimal retention, or perhaps none. Victor Rask (a worse contract) got moved for a good player, and though I'm not expecting that kind of good fortune with Wennberg, it's a good sign he could be moved at zero or close to zero cost. What this means for Dubois is that if he disappoints us, it's not his contract that is going to be the big problem.

 

[majormajor]

I'm sure Zach & agent are saying, "Ekblad contract," in which case 6.75x8 isn't close.
Andy - I agree, though I'm guessing his agent will want to squeeze a bit more out after Jarmo's hardball a couple years ago.
PLD - why would he/his agent accept an identical contract (or slightly worse as a % of the cap) that Wennberg got?

Regarding the Ekblad deal, I always wonder when player agents are said to cite what are widely considered awful contracts. I don't think the Ekblad deal is the kind of precedent that would encourage a GM to replicate it.

Regarding Wennberg's deal, same thing.

The reference point should be deals widely regarded as neither overpays nor steals.

 

[EspenK]

PLD - why would he/his agent accept an identical contract (or slightly worse as a % of the cap) that Wennberg got?

Because you spend $ not %'s.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Because you spend $ not %'s.

That's...not how comps work.

 

[Monk]

Man, I knew I should have 'd my response.

Same.

 

[EspenK]

That's...not how comps work.

It's one of the ways comps work.

 

[EspenK]

If I;m Jarmo I'd try like heck to try real hard to sell PLD, Andy & Zack on the whole core thing and how it is important to try and keep it together and work that angle. (cue that's not how it works comments).

There have been some good comments here about ages and how 8 years could affect the next deals. I would not let length be the overriding factor and would come off of 8 years as necessary. I also don't like 5 year deals as those would come due too quickly. Biggest objective is to get these three deals done asap before the price goes up. I'll take the risk that these guys aren't going to get worse next season.

 

[majormajor]

If I;m Jarmo I'd try like heck to try real hard to sell PLD, Andy & Zack on the whole core thing and how it is important to try and keep it together and work that angle. (cue that's not how it works comments).

There have been some good comments here about ages and how 8 years could affect the next deals. I would not let length be the overriding factor and would come off of 8 years as necessary. I also don't like 5 year deals as those would come due too quickly. Biggest objective is to get these three deals done asap before the price goes up. I'll take the risk that these guys aren't going to get worse next season.

It looks like you already agreed to raise the price. I don't think the prices for non-elite RFAs have gone up that much.

I think part of the subtext here is that after the Panarin saga we're not as confident in keeping the team together, so the impulse is to offer whatever it takes to get the young RFAs locked up long term. It does push me in that direction too, I would like as many years as possible for Werenski and Dubois, and 5 or 6 years for Anderson. But I don't think it pays to panic, just give them good offers, and if they want to wait a year that is their choice. I'd be surprised if Werenski or Dubois passed on $6.75 x 6 deals, or if Anderson passed on a $5.75m x 6. Anderson in particular ought to know that he's one bad injury away from losing his market.

 

[EspenK]

It looks like you already agreed to raise the price. I don't think the prices for non-elite RFAs have gone up that much.

I think part of the subtext here is that after the Panarin saga we're not as confident in keeping the team together, so the impulse is to offer whatever it takes to get the young RFAs locked up long term. It does push me in that direction too, I would like as many years as possible for Werenski and Dubois, and 5 or 6 years for Anderson. But I don't think it pays to panic, just give them good offers, and if they want to wait a year that is their choice. I'd be surprised if Werenski or Dubois passed on $6.75 x 6 deals, or if Anderson passed on a $5.75m x 6. Anderson in particular ought to know that he's one bad injury away from losing his market.

Guess it depends on your view of elite RFA's. I think PLD & Werenski are at the top of the 2nd tier of RFA's. Another good year from them and they could easily move into the top level. I have to believe that no one knows how much the price for the non-elite has gone up because none of the close but not quite guys have signed but if the top level goes up the next level is going to go up too. Nylander signed last year for almost 7mm. Is he elite? If prices are going up I'd like to get in for a half mill more than wait and get in for a mill more.

 

[majormajor]

Guess it depends on your view of elite RFA's. I think PLD & Werenski are at the top of the 2nd tier of RFA's. Another good year from them and they could easily move into the top level. I have to believe that no one knows how much the price for the non-elite has gone up because none of the close but not quite guys have signed but if the top level goes up the next level is going to go up too. Nylander signed last year for almost 7mm. Is he elite? If prices are going up I'd like to get in for a half mill more than wait and get in for a mill more.

I think they'd have to step up their games just to reach Aho level.

 

[EspenK]

I think they'd have to step up their games just to reach Aho level.

So a 2nd year C who puts up 83 points isn't elite? How many tiers do you have? Seems like you are now devaluing our guys to justify an offer sheet for Marner.

 

[majormajor]

So a 2nd year C who puts up 83 points isn't elite? How many tiers do you have? Seems like you are now devaluing our guys to justify an offer sheet for Marner.

I don't know if I put Marner much ahead of Aho. But they're both solidly ahead of Dubois and Werenski. I think even supposing Dubois and Werenski make the standard improvements this coming year, I don't think they'll command the Aho deal. I'm offering them 6 point something now so we don't have to pay them close to $8m next year, you're offering them close to $8m now so we don't have to pay them $9m? I don't think that's a number we'll likely see, unless one of these guys really pops.