Speculation: When is the end of the Hawks' Cup window?

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I was wondering, as there was an interesting discussion in the Hawks v. Oilers gamethread about the Hawks nearing the end of their window, when that is, and what should and shouldn't be done to extend it. When should the Hawks should start moving on from older core players? So I created this poll to gauge the pulse of the board on this subject, as the Hawks aren't the juggernaut they were in the early to mid part of the decade. I think they have this season and next to get that final Cup with this group, but it is going to be a tough task.

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[CallMeShaft]

No one has a crystal ball. The cup era for this team should've been over after 2010. That hasn't been the case, so who knows. Be happy about what this team has done and hope it doesn't end.

And I remember the conversation you had in that gdt. Keith isn't being traded anytime soon. So don't even bother bringing it up.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

The more I think about it, The more that I think Keith will probably be useful at his cap hit for the next 2-3 years, after which it really doesn't matter anymore. The thought behind trading him was to extend the window significantly, but that is probably unrealistic. It was a dumb thought and probably shouldn't have been said. I don't think Keith is bad, just that he isn't the studly perennial Norris candidate anymore. I still think He's a 1D though, but toward the bottom of that short list.

 

[massivegoonery]

My gut says 2015 was it, but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

 

[zac]

The door started to close when they re-signed Bickell. It was reduced to a crack when T and K were re-signed at those cap hits. It slammed shut when Stan re-signed Seabrook.

It's closed and it would take a miracle pry bar to get it back open.

 

[BK]

It all depends on the development of this current set of your guys. It will close when Keith can’t be Keith. I put 19-20.

 

[ColdSteel2]

My gut says 2015 was it, but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

Nice to see you.

 

[hawksrule]

All depends on Toews imo.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

What brought this up is the following question: Do the Hawks have enough talent to win the whole thing without Toews being that 75 point two way beast and Keith being 2010-2015 Keith? If the answer is no, then yeah, it is shut now and would take a miracle pry bar to get it back open, as zac said.

 

[BK]

What brought this up is the following question: Do the Hawks have enough talent to win the whole thing without Toews being that 75 point two way beast and Keith being 2010-2015 Keith? If the answer is no, then yeah, it is shut now and would take a miracle pry bar to get it back open, as zac said.

If those happen then it is all dependent on the young kids developing. I think they will and they fit the new NHL which is good.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

A bunch of people dislike the Hammer-Murphy/Dauphin trade but I don't. I really liked it. It will probably take time for Murphy to adjust to playing in a new system and for a team that is expected to win. If Murphy develops into a Seabrook replacement, then they could be right up there again. I like what I'm seeing from the inexperienced defensemen, but I don't like what I'm seeing from the forwards. They really miss Hossa in their own zone.

 

[x Tame Impala]

All depends on Toews imo.

I think it depends on Keith moreso than Toews but I agree with the general sentiment that the window is officially open for as long as Toews and Kieth (moreso Kieth) can be elite talents.

 

[ColdSteel2]

A bunch of people dislike the Hammer-Murphy/Dauphin trade but I don't. I really liked it. It will probably take time for Murphy to adjust to playing in a new system and for a team that is expected to win. If Murphy develops into a Seabrook replacement, then they could be right up there again. I like what I'm seeing from the inexperienced defensemen, but I don't like what I'm seeing from the forwards. They really miss Hossa in their own zone.

I'm with you, for the reasons you outlined and the fact that Hammer is slowing down. This is a trade a year or 2 from now, everybody would have been saying "if only we could have gotten something for Hammer while he was still good, we knew he wouldn't last." Well, we did, and now we'll see if Bowman is right but if he is, we got a good young D-man locked up long term and a possible 3C in Dauphin. I like Dauphin from the preseason, he looked fast and competed hard like the scouting report said. Went to the net, got a couple goals. I see he's got 5 points in 6 games down in the AHL.

 

[LDF]

i voted for the 2018-19. i still think they got the talent but it will be all dependent on the d-man. i really like the forwards esp extending thru 4 lines.

the state of the system at rfd is promising and i can't wait to see how things develop later this season.

 

[ColdSteel2]

I don't know what to vote, which makes me think it's over. Hopeful about everything with the young players though; and it seems like the prospects are doing really well overall, at least the right ones for what we will need.

 

[LDF]

I don't know what to vote, which makes me think it's over. Hopeful about everything with the young players though; and it seems like the prospects are doing really well overall, at least the right ones for what we will need.

i too was in that dilemma of trying to pick a number. i went with the safest number. the reason is, i really like the forwards that was assemble for this season ......

 

[clydesdale line]

I'm in complete agreement with BK. If Keith doesn't age like fine wine (or like Lidstrom who was pretty much a Cyborg) then it's done. Hawks still have enough young established players and still developing players (Saad, Murphy, Schmaltz, Hartman, DeBrincat, Forsling) to build around Toews and Kane.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'd say we have till Toews and Kane are on the wrong side of 30. Less if Keith doesn't age as well as we all hope.

It honestly doesn't really matter how well the kids develop. I mean, it matters if we want to win a cup, obviously, but as far as the window itself is concerned, if the core players can't go anymore, than even all the kids reaching their peak potential won't be enough to keep the window open.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

As long as Toews, Keith and Kane can keep it open. Might be closed, might have a few years left.

Starting to worry that Keith is "only" really good. If he's not a top 5 guy we'll need Forsling to turn into peak Timmonnen/Kenny Jonnsson to have a chance.

 

[Bubba88]

It's over, but thats just a Feeling. As Long as Toews, Kane and Keith can Play at a 1st line Level we have a Chance. Bowman has to Keep his picks and give this Team enough youth with the hope that enough of them make it to take over the keys

 

[hawksfan50]

This is call nonsense. ..Look Hawks need to develop a another star C ..whether that is Schmaltz or someonevdlesvthey have not drafted yet
..it is hard to get good Centers likely to become stars in rounds after the 1st round and usually hard to find star centers past the first 20 picks and tge Hawks might not draft that high still during the perceived window of 2-3 ?more years..But the 2019/290 and 21 drafts are rated exceptional in quality and depth ..even if we draft late 20s or 31st (if we win the Cup) we could get maybe 2 star centers from 2018 thru 2021 drafts (next 3-4 drafts) AS TO THE Keith declining with age issue and hence the perception of a window,I am not as worried ..They already started addressing RD in the 2017 draft ...Jokiharju amd Mitchell in a few years will be RD core guys...Plus I still think Lucas Carlsson will be a very good player. So we coukd be better than ever 9n the RD sise..As to LD ...Do not know if Forsling graduates to 1LD but they have several candidates for 2 and 3s with Snuggy and Gilbert and Tuulola coming ..But probably they should take LD in round #1 during the next 4 drafts and 2 more LD in round 2 of the draftsxwhwrevthey have roundv picks over the next 4 drafts..

2018 ...no round 2 (unless Stan tradesman a set for a pick there)

2019 /20/201 ...full compliment in rounds 1 and 2 ...

So tge Master Plan is:

2018 : C or LD round 1

2019 : LD if we took a C in 2018 round 1 ...otherwise vice versa.
Them the other position for round 2 ...

2020: C round 1 ... LD roundv. .

2021: C round 1 or Round 2 if we took LD Round 1 ...

I THINK we have enough young wing talent to avoid taking wi gers till round 3 and after for the next 4 drafts ...Plus maybe Shalunov comes over after 2 more seasons after this season or wectradechisxrights for some bother winger ...but then point is the stately should be C's and LD tp stock up on first and 2nd rounders over the next 4 drafts and then we should be able to find at least 1 Gen in each position ..So I want to see if possible 3 C and 1LD as first rounders over the next 4 drafts and 2LD and 1 C as 2nd rounders in that time frame. THIS should get us at least 1 C and 1 LW who coukd become stars at these positions.


2022 and 2023 ...then we hit wings again for fir and 2nd rounders for 2 consecutive drafts..

Stan will of course not draft goalies high..so maybe 2 -4 goalies in these 6 drafts but none earlier than round 3 ...

Then point is to try to find 1 more star C and 2 more star LD from our picks tye next 4 drafts .I do not see why we need to sink to the bottom.ifvwe can achieve this plan ..hopefully, a compliance buy-out after a lock-out for the fall 2019 opt out of the current CBA by the NHLPA will provide a solution of the Seabrook albatross issue .

 

[ColdSteel2]

I've always thought a great cheap goalie would extend the window or reopen it. Imagine if we had Shestyorkin making around 1M a year. We'd be going into free agency to load up on skaters.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I've always thought a great cheap goalie would extend the window or reopen it. Imagine if we had Shestyorkin making around 1M a year. We'd be going into free agency to load up on skaters.

Crow is already fairly cheap for what the Hawks get out of him.(Top 5-8 NHL goalie performance) And they have Forsberg, who has looked phenomenal, so far. Their goaltending is already fine for their salary. It's less than 7m between the two goalies.

The window is open until 19-20, IMO. Basically as Kane, Toews, and Keith enter into their early 30's, the window will close. I think they can win another one in the next year or two. Unless they're able to find a Keith replacement, and a Toews replacement. I think it's much easier to find a high-scoring winger to replace Kane, than it is to find the 1D and 1C. If they're able to find those two things, this window could be open until the mid 20's, IMO, as there is a ton of younger talent in the pipeline to fill out the depth.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Crow is already fairly cheap for what the Hawks get out of him. And they have Forsberg, who has looked phenomenal, so far.

The window is open until 19-20, IMO. Basically as Kane, Toews, and Keith enter into their early 30's, the window will close. Unless they're able to find a Keith replacement, and a Toews replacement. I think it's much easier to find a high-scoring winger than it is to find the 1D and 1C. If they're able to find those two things, this window could be open until the mid 20's, IMO, as there is a ton of younger talent in the pipeline.

I love Corey but I'd still prefer we try to get someone close to as good making much less. I don't mind keeping him for his current deal but there is no good reason to pay a 35 and a half year old Crawford to stay around. I agree with what you said about the younger talent on the way but I can't help but think this team is going to need some type of top end player in a couple years. For example, getting Panarin back in UFA. As the core gets older, I'd like to believe our young talent alone can pick up the slack and then some but either way, we're going to need Corey's money. If Schmaltz, etc are THAT good, they'll get paid a lot. If not, we'll need some more help somewhere. Just the realities of having older stars.

 

[BobbyJet]

I love Corey but I'd still prefer we try to get someone close to as good making much less. I don't mind keeping him for his current deal but there is no good reason to pay a 35 and a half year old Crawford to stay around. I agree with what you said about the younger talent on the way but I can't help but think this team is going to need some type of top end player in a couple years. For example, getting Panarin back in UFA. As the core gets older, I'd like to believe our young talent alone can pick up the slack and then some but either way, we're going to need Corey's money. If Schmaltz, etc are THAT good, they'll get paid a lot. If not, we'll need some more help somewhere. Just the realities of having older stars.

Too late. Stan had the possibility to do just that last Spring but we all know what happened ..... Falling in love with your players is fatal for NHL management and that's what we are witnessing.