Whats the argument that Sweden still is a hockey-power?

[Eye of Ra]

Sweden has not made semifinals in WC since 2018. Even losing to the likes of Latvia now.

No gold in U20 since 2012.

Not as good players in NHL as Canada, USA, Finland and Russia.

Its pretty clear that top 4 is Canada, USA, Finland, Russia and that this 4 nations are in a league of their own. Then its tier 2 with Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia.

Of course with Russia not in anymore, its Canada, USA and Finland....but if they where, they would be just as good.

People need to stop talking about "big 7" or "big 6" , Canada, USA, Finland and Russia are far ahead of Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia at everything.

Hopefully we can have a serious and civil debate about this topic.

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[ijuka]

Does anyone care about the world championships? I don't think Swedish players have really given a crap about that tournament since the time of the Sedins, Sundin, and Forsberg.

 

[THE JAM]

Your expression "losing to the likes of Latvia* " shows that your mindset is still out of order and you do not usually actually mean what you say... in fact you secretly still believe that SWE is better than LAT

The hockey gods did punish you today and will keep on punishing you in the future


* "losing to the likes of Latvia" - really exposes that you actually think that swedes are superior and Latvia is crap....

 

[HanSolo]

Imagine drawing such a conclusion on the basis of a tournament made with slapdash rosters of NHL players eliminated from the playoffs who feel like playing in the tournament and euro pros who aren't good enough to or don't want to play in the NHL.

 

[stl76]

Classic Eye of Ra thread. In before lock.

 

[ESH]

Dude’s only got one thing to ever try and troll about

 

[THE JAM]

What Eye of Ra is looking for today after that stingy upset by Latvia is that people should comfort him with comments that sweden is still top 8, perhaps even top 6 sometimes - don't cry and be so depressed etc

 

[Eye of Ra]

Your expression "losing to the likes of Latvia* " shows that your mindset is still out of order and you do not usually actually mean what you say... in fact you secretly still believe that SWE is better than LAT

The hockey gods did punish you today and will keep on punishing you in the future


* "losing to the likes of Latvia" - really exposes that you actually think that swedes are superior and Latvia is crap....

No thats not what i mean. I meant that Sweden is bigger hockey country than Latvia and should be favorites against them, i dont mean they suck.

Imagine drawing such a conclusion on the basis of a tournament made with slapdash rosters of NHL players eliminated from the playoffs who feel like playing in the tournament and euro pros who aren't good enough to or don't want to play in the NHL.

Its also because of U20 and what players we have in NHL compared to other nations. Not only about WC.

 

[HanSolo]

No thats not what i mean. I meant that Sweden is bigger hockey country than Latvia and should be favorites against them, i dont mean they suck.


Its also because of U20 and what players we have in NHL compared to other nations. Not only about WC.

The timing of this thread suggests otherwise but sure.

 

[Eye of Ra]

The timing of this thread suggests otherwise but sure.

WC is about depth. Sweden clearly showed we dont have the depth to be a threat at WC. But Canada, USA, Finland etc have shown it.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

WC is about depth. Sweden clearly showed we dont have the depth to be a threat at WC. But Canada, USA, Finland etc have shown it.

It's more than about depth, it's about players not really caring that much about the WC.

It's a fun little tournament, but top hockey nations won't ever have stacked teams in the WC, ever.

And that's not an excuse, it's just reality, still, it gives more spotlight to usually sidelined nations, I mean, Latvia and Germany in semi-finals ? Love it personally.

 

[WarriorofTime]

They've won 4 IIHF World Championship Gold Medals this century with 3 more Silvers. They won a "best-on-best" Olympics with NHL players in 2006 and won Silver in the last one in 2014.

Since 2007, they have made the Semifinals at the U-20s in 15 out of the last 17 tournaments.

They won Gold at the U-18s in 2019 and 2022 and have medalled in 5 straight tournaments.

They have the third most NHL players as of 2022-23, and the most of any European nation (aka any country for which the NHL is not their "home league"). Prominent Swedish NHLers today include Linas Ullmark in net, Erik Karlsson, Victor Hedman and Rasmus Dahlin on D, Elias Pettersson, William Nylander, Mika Zibanajed, Adrian Kempe and Elias Lindholm at forward.. making them at the very least "dangerous" and a team that nobody would be overly surprised if they were to win a hypothetical "best-on-best" competition played in the near future.

Essentially, by all metrics Sweden is still near the tippy top when it comes to "hockey powers", and of course Eye of Ra knows this but is doing their thing.

 

[Hennessy]

Get a new schtick, man.

 

[Eye of Ra]

They've won 4 IIHF World Championship Gold Medals this century with 3 more Silvers. They won a "best-on-best" Olympics with NHL players in 2006 and won Silver in the last one in 2014.

Since 2007, they have made the Semifinals at the U-20s in 15 out of the last 17 tournaments.

They won Gold at the U-18s in 2019 and 2022 and have medalled in 5 straight tournaments.

They have the third most NHL players as of 2022-23, and the most of any European nation (aka any country for which the NHL is not their "home league"). Prominent Swedish NHLers today include Linas Ullmark in net, Erik Karlsson, Victor Hedman and Rasmus Dahlin on D, Elias Pettersson, William Nylander, Mika Zibanajed, Adrian Kempe and Elias Lindholm at forward.. making them at the very least "dangerous" and a team that nobody would be overly surprised if they were to win a hypothetical "best-on-best" competition played in the near future.

Essentially, by all metrics Sweden is still near the tippy top when it comes to "hockey powers", and of course Eye of Ra knows this but is doing their thing.

You are talking about ancient stuff. Sweden has not made semifinals in WC since 2018.

In U20, last years, Sweden has gotten knocked out in qf a couple times or ended 4th, long time ago with gold, back in 2012.

U18 is too young, its bascially just kids, i dont look much into that. U20 is more important.

Yes there is many Swedes in NHL, but if look at the actual quality of the players, then Canada, Finland, Russia and USA is far ahead. Sweden is closer to Germany, Swiss, Slovaks and Czechs in terms of quality. Actually Sweden has far worse defenders than Germans, Swiss, Slovaks and Czechs but forwards and goalies pretty even.

Get a new schtick, man.

Its just that so many people are deluded and think Sweden is still good. It amazes me.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Couldn't agree more. I mean look at their best possible defense. You can't because they have no defense. Only 4th forwards like Karlsson and Dahlin who makes 10 terrible mistakes every game few points can't make up. At least Germany has Seider and Switzerland has Josi

 

[Eye of Ra]

Couldn't agree more. I mean look at their best possible defense. You can't because they have no defense. Only 4th forwards like Karlsson and Dahlin who makes 10 terrible mistakes every game few points can't make up. At least Germany has Seider and Switzerland has Josi

Yeah. Swedish defenders are good offensivly, but bad in their own zone. I been saying that for a long time now. Being a defender is mostly about defending. The D is our biggest weakness. So many people are just looking at points and offensive skills.

I heard some russians say "Sweden dont have defenders, they only have midfielders".

 

[WarriorofTime]

Couldn't agree more. I mean look at their best possible defense. You can't because they have no defense. Only 4th forwards like Karlsson and Dahlin who makes 10 terrible mistakes every game few points can't make up. At least Germany has Seider and Switzerland has Josi

Hedman, Lindholm, Ekholm, Larsson.... heck, Gustav Forsling is playing top 2 minutes on a team that swept its way into the Stanley Cup Finals. Surely you are kidding and being sarcastic?

 

[hamzarocks]

The NHL doesnt play best on best tournaments

Sweden has incredible talent at the NHL level and upcoming talent

If NHL had a proper worldcup or olympic event they are a clear 3rd best team

CAN
USA
SWE

Russia wildcard who can be 4th or 1st.

Finland is 5th and a contender but likely loser to any of those teams

Everyone else after is an underdog who is ranging from 2 goal defeat to 5 goal defeat

Sweden defense is still elite

Hedman
Dahlin
Karlsson
H Lindholm
Ekholm
A. Larsson

That is a really good top 6

Forwards

Nylander, Pettersson, Bratt, Forsberg, Elias Lindholm, Zibby is one dirty group for a top 6

Kempe, JEek, Arviddsson, Rakell, Raymond, Burakovsky as the bottom 6

Thats a team that can challange and beat CAN/USA/RUS if they are at the too of their game and get quality goaltending

 

[Castle8130]

Lidstrom, Forsberg, Sundin, Alfredsson, Sedin sisters, Zetteburg, Backstrom

Factor in all the great role players like some of the Hawks players in Hjalmarsson and Kruger.

Upcoming star players like Edvinsson, Wallinder, Kasper, and Raymond from the wings. There are plenty more star players I haven't even named yet.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Couldn't agree more. I mean look at their best possible defense. You can't because they have no defense. Only 4th forwards like Karlsson and Dahlin who makes 10 terrible mistakes every game few points can't make up. At least Germany has Seider and Switzerland has Josi

Ironic since one of the players mentioned is winning his 3rd Norris, while the one in your username hasn't won anything.

 

[matsqq]

Sweden has not made semifinals in WC since 2018. Even losing to the likes of Latvia now.

No gold in U20 since 2012.

Not as good players in NHL as Canada, USA, Finland and Russia.

Its pretty clear that top 4 is Canada, USA, Finland, Russia and that this 4 nations are in a league of their own. Then its tier 2 with Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia.

Of course with Russia not in anymore, its Canada, USA and Finland....but if they where, they would be just as good.

People need to stop talking about "big 7" or "big 6" , Canada, USA, Finland and Russia are far ahead of Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia at everything.

Hopefully we can have a serious and civil debate about this topic.

The only really pathetic thing is that you, a finn , is pretending to be a swede to discredit Sweden by writing this kind of bullshit all the time.

If sweden reach that low mark then we would have a serious problem - a mental one.

That would indicate a real loser.

You recently tried to pin the last best-on.best tournament as a failure, a tournament where Russia and Sweden came out on top of the european countries and where Finland was clearly the worst team of all .

Sweden is absolutely fine - sure, there have been failures but also a win in a best-on.best torunament, and we still have players like Elias Pettersson, Hedman etc.

We came second in u18 in the latest torunament, doing really well.

If we would judge one of sweden and finland as a loser country that never achieved anything great in sports - it would not be sweden that came out as the loser.

BTW we still find new great swedish players, Forsling being a super talented defender that logs more minutes and has better plus/minus than any in the team that probably will win the Stanley Cup, Sweden is absolutely fine !

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

 

[josra33]

Sweden has not made semifinals in WC since 2018. Even losing to the likes of Latvia now.

No gold in U20 since 2012.

Not as good players in NHL as Canada, USA, Finland and Russia.

Its pretty clear that top 4 is Canada, USA, Finland, Russia and that this 4 nations are in a league of their own. Then its tier 2 with Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia.

Of course with Russia not in anymore, its Canada, USA and Finland....but if they where, they would be just as good.

People need to stop talking about "big 7" or "big 6" , Canada, USA, Finland and Russia are far ahead of Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia at everything.

Hopefully we can have a serious and civil debate about this topic.

I put absolutely ZERO stock in the World Championships on who wins and who doesn't. Look at these rosters across the board. You can't look at US, Canada, Finland, Sweden rosters and tell me that its a best on best roster.

I look at it to see how young players/prospects do against grown men regardless of skill. Its the only value that it brings.

 

[Mattb124]

The IIHF worlds is the hockey equivalent of the movie “The Expendables”. Virtually no one who is relevant plays in the tournament. What an absolutely stupid thread.

 

[ViD]

The IIHF worlds is the hockey equivalent of the movie “The Expendables”. Virtually no one who is relevant plays in the tournament. What an absolutely stupid thread.

That’s not always the case, check the 2019 tournament rosters, they were as close as possible to the Olympic squads