What's Preventing The Hurricanes From Taking That Next Step?

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I mean...I think it's the "shoot everywhere and often" strategy and thinking that because they can control the puck in the ozone and wrack up a ton of low percentage shots that they're "winning" at 5v5. Yes they get goals that way...both goals tonight came from that. But when it gets tight they don't seem to get enough scoring in other ways and we're seeing how the over reliance on shot attempts is obscuring some of the actual talent they have. The Aho and Guentzel line is deadly. They could be setting up high percentage scoring plays more often. Necas is a strong player, Svech can snipe it, Jarvis is an excellent player...but IMO those guys just don't get enough good looks and you're wasting your best players on netfront scrambles and deflections.

You just gotta have a bit more to your game IMO. Even when talking about "what's wrong with the power play" Rod was saying "we need more shots and to take away Shesterkin's eyes" which to me means their gameplan is still screen and blast the puck, not create high percentage passing plays.

And a bit of bad luck overall as well, but when you kinda lean so heavily on creating favorable conditions for "puck luck" then you're at the mercy of bad luck as well.

They'll say "but we controlled 5v5 and should have won that game" but then I'd say, why didn't you? Why didn't you win the other games?

Rangers don't have the horses and style to constantly shut down the Canes offense so they're doing their best bend don't break job and capitalizing on their chances.

e: "playoff hockey" and "playoff goals" aren't just deflections and netfront scrambles anymore. Anyone thinking that's the only way to get playoff goals is stuck in the past and needs to realize you have to have some amount of balanced attack. Score off the rush, score from deflections, net scrambles, score from skilled setup passing plays and snipes. You gotta do it all, and Canes focus too much on one aspect.

It’s this.

They come out and basically warm up a Vezina winner with low percentage shots and their PP has no plan to it at all.

The Rangers have had better coaching and they stick to the plan for 60 minutes as much as possible. It’s that trust and experience that got them the presidents trophy. They haven’t abandoned what works.

The Rangers are also a very heady group of guys they can easily adapt their game to fit an opponent. Kind of chameleon like

 

[newsportsfan123]

I see HFboards doesn’t know what they’re talking about again!

Playoff points for the Hurricanes this season:

Aho: 9 points in 8 games
Guentzel: 8 points in 8 games
Jarvis : 8 points in 8 games
Svechnikov: 8 points in 8 games

Oh wow would you look at that! Their top line players are leading the team in points, hell Jarvis has been playing with the black hole Staal since the playoffs started. Aho has 6 points in 3 games against the Rangers the same as the Rangers “Stars”. I learned from this thread that half of the people in it have not watched the Hurricanes in the playoffs the last 6 years. I feel like the disappointment this year is offensive depth. They really needed a 2C and they don’t have that and I feel as long as they keep trotting Staal at 3C they will never win a cup. He doesn’t contribute enough at an offensive level.

What I learned is that Carolina should draft a 120 point player and generational playoff goalie since that’s the only thing that does the trick.

 

[Peltz]

They got beat on two ot goals. I wouldn’t say that’s an indication they’re not a good enough roster. They just aren’t executing on special teams.

 

[Peltz]

probably unpopular opinion but when your best guy is Aho, thats the problem. yea he tore up the reg season but the Canes lack "the" guy who comes through in big games. Aho is a great player but he seems to lack the gamebreaker level. the rest of the canes offense is a tier below Aho. Look at the rangers for example. When the grade A chances are showing up their stars are finishing them. Some of that is luck and some of it is having that guy or a couple of those guys that rarely miss when the chance comes. Also think the canes are always lacking in net. Lastly they are playing the presidents trophy winner so its nothing to be really down about. 3 one goal losses doesnt signal blowing it up.

for all the haters out there, the canes have scored 1 more goal against them in 3 games then the caps did in 4. Shesterkin is good.

Shesterkin is one of the best no doubt. And he’s dialed in right now.

 

[Fatass]

They are missing that McDrai, MacKinnon, even Pastrnak level player. Someone who can take a game over or needs one shot from anywhere to score.

They have alot of good players. Nothing elite.

They don't have the goaltending to bail them out either.

Who do the Rangers have as their elite guy that matches McDavid or McKinnon? Imo Panarin is their key

They got beat on two ot goals. I wouldn’t say that’s an indication they’re not a good enough roster. They just aren’t executing on special teams.

and special teams (PP especially) is where true elite skill shines. Canes are at their bar. They play at max all season. Nothing extra for playoffs.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Not gonna read through 5 pages but as @Peltz mentioned, their special teams havent gotten it done in the series that they've lost (and likely this one as well).

I do think at least some of that is on coaching. It seems like the team has a strategy they think will work kind of regardless of who they are playing against and they stick with it hell or highwater. Good teams play different from bad teams and also have certain players or structures that are going to require adjusting to. Without knowing the inner workings of Rod's coaching strategy and staff, this is probably where I would say the set-up is lacking

 

[Slapshottothehead]

Coaching. Rod makes no adjustments other than switching lines around. Pp has no set plays, no one screenig, and has been their main weakness in the playoffs 3 years in a row. Time to make changes.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

they need to adjust their game plan. energy management is non existent in Carolina. they go balls to the wall for the 1st period and last 5 minutes of the games, while veteran teams like the NYR just methodically sit back and wait for their grade A chances. Throwing shots from everywhere just warms up a good goalie, not a good strategy against Igor.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Not sure why people are surprised. 4 of last 5 years, look like world-beaters in one round and then get smoked in the next. Buzz has been Brindamour is a good coach, but terrible at adjustments. So, a team beats them, and then goes with the same recipe and it becomes a short series. Even the Rangers series in 2022. Won the first 2, and then it fell apart as they dropped 4 of 5. Kenny Albert pointed out the Canes PK was much less aggressive last night, and the Ranges PP didnt score. Their offense all series has been throw the puck at the net and hope for deflection or something whacky. Scored a few, but obviously not enough. Even the tying goal. Aho's stick doesn't break and that rebound does not wind up where it did and likely doesn't result in a goal.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Who do the Rangers have as their elite guy that matches McDavid or McKinnon? Imo Panarin is their key

and special teams (PP especially) is where true elite skill shines. Canes are at their bar. They play at max all season. Nothing extra for playoffs.

If Carolina had goaltending to match the Rangers, the need to have that elite sniper would not be as big. But...they can't match NYR in that area.

 

[Caps8112]

I see HFboards doesn’t know what they’re talking about again!

Playoff points for the Hurricanes this season:

Aho: 9 points in 8 games
Guentzel: 8 points in 8 games
Jarvis : 8 points in 8 games
Svechnikov: 8 points in 8 games

Oh wow would you look at that! Their top line players are leading the team in points, hell Jarvis has been playing with the black hole Staal since the playoffs started. Aho has 6 points in 3 games against the Rangers the same as the Rangers “Stars”. I learned from this thread that half of the people in it have not watched the Hurricanes in the playoffs the last 6 years. I feel like the disappointment this year is offensive depth. They really needed a 2C and they don’t have that and I feel as long as they keep trotting Staal at 3C they will never win a cup. He doesn’t contribute enough at an offensive level.

What I learned is that Carolina should draft a 120 point player and generational playoff goalie since that’s the only thing that does the trick.

Aho: 0 G 6 A in 3 games
Guentzel: 3 G 1 A in 3 games
Jarvis : 1 G 0 A in 3 games
Svechnikov: 2 G 1 A in 3 games
Necas 1 G 0 A in 3 games

Trochek 2 G 4 A in 3 games
Zib 2 G 3 A in 3 games
Kreider 2 G 2 A in 3 games
Panarin 2 G 4 A in 3 games
Lafreniere 3 G 2 A in 3 games

First round was the same bye the rangers got. Do agree that they need a Staal replacement.

 

[bleedgreen]

There are other non-cap related expenses to running a hockey organization. You can be cheap by cutting corners in those other areas.

Aren’t you just looking for excuses to criticize a person or a team if you call them cheap for that? Why would fans of other teams care enough to know that otherwise? I follow hockey pretty damn close, I bet you cash I have no idea how much money your owner spends on his staffing. I don’t know that for any team, but for some reason people who want to criticize the Canes want to call the team cheap so badly the drop to this level. Just own whatever your bias is and stick to that, because I don’t think you or anyone else actually cares. You just don’t like the Canes or their owner.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Aren’t you just looking for excuses to criticize a person or a team if you call them cheap for that? Why would fans of other teams care enough to know that otherwise? I follow hockey pretty damn close, I bet you cash I have no idea how much money your owner spends on his staffing. I don’t know that for any team, but for some reason people who want to criticize the Canes want to call the team cheap so badly the drop to this level. Just own whatever your bias is and stick to that, because I don’t think you or anyone else actually cares. You just don’t like the Canes or their owner.

An example from a different sport is the Arizona Cardinals being the only nfl organization to charge players for taking food from the facilities home for dinner.

People see that and go “they’re being cheap” even though it has nothing to do with the salary cap.

 

[BPD]

lmao

I mean, I think I get what you're saying, but for a team that almost put up back to back 50 shot games it's funny for you to say that



That's kinda what I mean though. Guys aren't getting really good quality shots that they have the talent for. They're content to let the D blast it or take longer range shots at the net and hope something happens.

Vigneault's Rangers at least started out by being more of a transition team and were deadly off the rush. Carolina doesn't have that.

I don't think I realized the irony of how that statement could be taken in the moment, but yeah. They have shooters, not SHOOTERS.

It's so weird watching them, because there are times when I'm watching Necas and Aho and I'm convinced they're a pass away from a goal at any moment. They're so good at controlling play, but their shot quality - both from a position and a finishing perspective - is just garbage.

 

[Sam de Mtl]

They gave a dumb contract to KK instead of re-signing Vincent Trocheck.

And then doubled down.

 

[Danarqhy]

The Canes problems is just not enough talent. Sure they dominate shots but honestly last night it felt the Rangers were all over them even though the Canes had almost double the shots. Lots of low-danger chances. I honestly can't even believe the shot clock when I look at it because it just doesn't feel like the Canes generate that much.

Having Trocheck instead of that boat anchor Kotkaniemi just because the Canes front office thought it was cute to troll the Habs would also be a huge help. Trocheck has 12 points, KK has a big fat 0... It's kinda crazy to think about now, but that move that made a lot of people giddy at the time could have completely shut the Canes' contention window for this core.

 

[TGWL]

Come after when this is over. K, thanks, we don't want you reverse jinx.

 

[bleedgreen]

An example from a different sport is the Arizona Cardinals being the only nfl organization to charge players for taking food from the facilities home for dinner.

People see that and go “they’re being cheap” even though it has nothing to do with the salary cap.

A) so you’re not even in hockey to find a comparison, and it’s an awful comparison.
B) how is this comparable to the Canes? They don’t want to pay staff more than they think they have to. That’s a lot different than charging them for dinner. He’s not trying to make money off them, he doesn’t need more money. He’s trying to keep the costs down, and while I don’t always agree there’s a pretty big difference there. There are no examples of the crap you’re talking about. There’s only stories of him not wanting to pay more than he thinks he has to for replaceable staff. He thinks there’s always someone who’s hungrier and trying to make a name for themselves, and those people are less expensive. College kids to work in the office on menial jobs. Assistant coaches can be replaced easily. Rod is fiercely loyal so he’s fighting for those people. I’m fine with Rod doing that and on most levels I’m fine with Dundon thinking the way he does. He’s not wrong.

The Canes problems is just not enough talent. Sure they dominate shots but honestly last night it felt the Rangers were all over them even though the Canes had almost double the shots. Lots of low-danger chances. I honestly can't even believe the shot clock when I look at it because it just doesn't feel like the Canes generate that much.

Having Trocheck instead of that boat anchor Kotkaniemi just because the Canes front office thought it was cute to troll the Habs would also be a huge help. Trocheck has 12 points, KK has a big fat 0... It's kinda crazy to think about now, but that move that made a lot of people giddy at the time could have completely shut the Canes' contention window for this core.

Not everyone was comfortable letting Trocheck go.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don't think I realized the irony of how that statement could be taken in the moment, but yeah. They have shooters, not SHOOTERS.

It's so weird watching them, because there are times when I'm watching Necas and Aho and I'm convinced they're a pass away from a goal at any moment. They're so good at controlling play, but their shot quality - both from a position and a finishing perspective - is just garbage.

The thing is guys like Aho, Necas, Svech, Jarvis actually all have wicked shots. Like Necas and Svech have lasers and are capable of beating goalies from just about anywhere on the ice. Jarvis has a really good shot as well but I'd say he's a bit more opportunistic like Aho in that their goals are more about timing and placement rather than zipping it or one-timers. Teuvo actually has a great one timer but rarely uses it. And then Guentzel just like to shoot and score in a variety of fashions.

So, the talent IS there to score more but I agree the mentality just isn't when things get tough in the playoffs. Necas and Svech are the only guys who REALLY want to shoot the puck whenever they get it.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

It's special teams, you can ignore anyone who gives a different answer

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

Jerks never win

they have elite players but no gamebreakers.

 

[TGWL]

The thing is guys like Aho, Necas, Svech, Jarvis actually all have wicked shots. Like Necas and Svech have lasers and are capable of beating goalies from just about anywhere on the ice. Jarvis has a really good shot as well but I'd say he's a bit more opportunistic like Aho in that their goals are more about timing and placement rather than zipping it or one-timers. Teuvo actually has a great one timer but rarely uses it. And then Guentzel just like to shoot and score in a variety of fashions.

So, the talent IS there to score more but I agree the mentality just isn't when things get tough in the playoffs. Necas and Svech are the only guys who REALLY want to shoot the puck whenever they get it.

I think most of the talk about "elite talent" pushing them over is closer to the old saying "Give them an inch and they take a mile". Those players have great shots but most of them have to work really hard for it. While other game-changers seem to be able to take advantage when a little space is given to them. They're still some of the top players, but whether it's the system or just who they are, it seems they have to work extremely hard to create their chances. I think if they added a little more creativity to their game-plan they would find a little more space against some teams. But that might be on the coach rather than the players.

 

[BPD]

I see HFboards doesn’t know what they’re talking about again!

Playoff points for the Hurricanes this season:

Aho: 9 points in 8 games
Guentzel: 8 points in 8 games
Jarvis : 8 points in 8 games
Svechnikov: 8 points in 8 games

Oh wow would you look at that! Their top line players are leading the team in points, hell Jarvis has been playing with the black hole Staal since the playoffs started. Aho has 6 points in 3 games against the Rangers the same as the Rangers “Stars”. I learned from this thread that half of the people in it have not watched the Hurricanes in the playoffs the last 6 years. I feel like the disappointment this year is offensive depth. They really needed a 2C and they don’t have that and I feel as long as they keep trotting Staal at 3C they will never win a cup. He doesn’t contribute enough at an offensive level.

What I learned is that Carolina should draft a 120 point player and generational playoff goalie since that’s the only thing that does the trick.

Watching you guys enough in the last few years and across now three playoff series, it's not the "go draft a generational player" thing. I don't even think it's the depth - the depth is strong. It's that the Canes have a "style" of player and a style of game - and there's no variation. It's a relentless, high-speed forecheck - and when your top line is on, you get a cycle going and create space. It's go-go-go everyone forechecking - so it's predictable. It's so predictable that guys relied on for secondary scoring - the Kuznetsovs and Staals and Drurys and Teravainens of the world - have been absolutely invisible.

A lot of teams can't keep up with that - they try, they fail, and the Canes pound them. It's a recipe for beating any bottom 20-ish team in the NHL. The Rangers aren't even trying to keep up. They're just keeping the Canes to the outside, making them work to win board battles, not giving them an inch of unearned blue paint, and daring them to make mistakes - basically, letting the Canes work themselves to exhaustion and then taking advantage. It's a forecheck rope-a-dope.

You see it too - aside from game 1, the Canes came out flying in the first, had to work like hell for a single goal - most of the time off a lucky bounce or a deflection - and then as the game goes on, the legs get heavy, and the Rangers take over.

I think BrindAmour is being hilariously outfoxed by Laviolette here. But I'm not sure there's a good response, because the Canes lack style diversity in personnel.

 

[WarriorofTime]

A) so you’re not even in hockey to find a comparison, and it’s an awful comparison.

No, it's not, you asked how it's possible to still be considered "cheap" if you spend to the salary cap, I have a prime example that everyone agrees is "cheap" and you just dismiss it because it goes against your worldview, all while moving the goalposts.

 

[BPD]

The thing is guys like Aho, Necas, Svech, Jarvis actually all have wicked shots. Like Necas and Svech have lasers and are capable of beating goalies from just about anywhere on the ice. Jarvis has a really good shot as well but I'd say he's a bit more opportunistic like Aho in that their goals are more about timing and placement rather than zipping it or one-timers. Teuvo actually has a great one timer but rarely uses it. And then Guentzel just like to shoot and score in a variety of fashions.

So, the talent IS there to score more but I agree the mentality just isn't when things get tough in the playoffs. Necas and Svech are the only guys who REALLY want to shoot the puck whenever they get it.

Game recognize game. We spent half a year screaming at Mika Zibanejad and Alexis Lafreniere - and more than a year at Panarin - to shoot the damn puck more. We know the problem when we see it, and oh we see it. I think Mark Lazerus said it best - the Canes shoot a lot. The Rangers attack.

It's a style thing, it's a mentality thing. It might be a coaching thing - but as I said in an earlier post, I don't think there's personnel BrindAmour can call on to not play a speedy, relentless forechecking style and better feed those guys games.

The other side of that coin is that if you're NOT going to forecheck the Rangers relentlessly....good luck.