Whatever happened to the NHL brotherhood and sticking up for each other?

[eye]

NHL players are divided on both sides of the Atlantic right now. Players are split between doing housework or playing hockey abroad. Even NHL player execs are on the wrong side of the ocean at this time in need. Players must know the damage that is being done to the game and that teams folding, playing with smaller rosters and possibly contraction are more and more likely with each passing day. Players rhetoric and even a owners rhetoric are alos hurting the game and themselves with useless rhetoric being one of the causes of this prolonged struggle.

To split the players even more you have the haves and the have nots with the haves making up most if not all of the players execs for the PA. The haves can afford to retire and even though they are losing playing time and income it won't affect their lifestyles. The have nots may not have a job when the NHL II resumes play next year.

It seems to me that job security or the pursuit of protecting NHL roster spots for the NHL brotherhood seems to be and afterthought in this war? I would think it would be the number one priority and all the more reason that the voices of all players should be considered.

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[GKJ]

This isn't anything different than what goes on in sports.

 

[barnburner]

NHL players are divided on both sides of the Atlantic right now. Players are split between doing housework or playing hockey abroad. Even NHL player execs are on the wrong side of the ocean at this time in need. Players must know the damage that is being done to the game and that teams folding, playing with smaller rosters and possibly contraction are more and more likely with each passing day. Players rhetoric and even a owners rhetoric are alos hurting the game and themselves with useless rhetoric being one of the causes of this prolonged struggle.

To split the players even more you have the haves and the have nots with the haves making up most if not all of the players execs for the PA. The haves can afford to retire and even though they are losing playing time and income it won't affect their lifestyles. The have nots may not have a job when the NHL II resumes play next year.

It seems to me that job security or the pursuit of protecting NHL roster spots for the NHL brotherhood seems to be and afterthought in this war? I would think it would be the number one priority and all the more reason that the voices of all players should be considered.

Only in a perfect world.
The voices of the majority of the lesser paid players are muffled for two reasons.
1. Goodenow has his track record to protect in order to protect his future earnings - so nothing less than tremendous pressure from the influential players will cause him to give way on his stated position.
2. The big money earning stars and veteran players have all the influence at this point.

This is not about union brotherhood - it's about money - the boys at the top have it, and want to keep getting it. Their position is that if they continue getting $10 million dollar contracts, some money will "trickle down" to the little people. Thus it's good for everybody. lol...
If this mess continues for another year,
you will probably see a revolt, and the now silent majority demanding a settlement.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

NHL players are divided on both sides of the Atlantic right now. Players are split between doing housework or playing hockey abroad. Even NHL player execs are on the wrong side of the ocean at this time in need. Players must know the damage that is being done to the game and that teams folding, playing with smaller rosters and possibly contraction are more and more likely with each passing day. Players rhetoric and even a owners rhetoric are alos hurting the game and themselves with useless rhetoric being one of the causes of this prolonged struggle.

To split the players even more you have the haves and the have nots with the haves making up most if not all of the players execs for the PA. The haves can afford to retire and even though they are losing playing time and income it won't affect their lifestyles. The have nots may not have a job when the NHL II resumes play next year.

It seems to me that job security or the pursuit of protecting NHL roster spots for the NHL brotherhood seems to be and afterthought in this war? I would think it would be the number one priority and all the more reason that the voices of all players should be considered.

There's plenty of brotherhood here. A lot of what is in the PA's mind during any negotiations is the future players, the future members of the sport. The PA doesn't want to play in a capped system now, but they are also fighting for the future members, because once there is a cap they aren't going to get out of it.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

NHL players are divided on both sides of the Atlantic right now. Players are split between doing housework or playing hockey abroad. Even NHL player execs are on the wrong side of the ocean at this time in need. Players must know the damage that is being done to the game and that teams folding, playing with smaller rosters and possibly contraction are more and more likely with each passing day. Players rhetoric and even a owners rhetoric are alos hurting the game and themselves with useless rhetoric being one of the causes of this prolonged struggle.

To split the players even more you have the haves and the have nots with the haves making up most if not all of the players execs for the PA. The haves can afford to retire and even though they are losing playing time and income it won't affect their lifestyles. The have nots may not have a job when the NHL II resumes play next year.

It seems to me that job security or the pursuit of protecting NHL roster spots for the NHL brotherhood seems to be and afterthought in this war? I would think it would be the number one priority and all the more reason that the voices of all players should be considered.

God I'm sick of these owners propaganda threads. Didn't a mod ask you to make one thread and use it for these types of posts.

One thing I'd like to see, is a source that the players are divided at all

I'm doubting I will get one

 

[vopatsrash]

God I'm sick of these owners propaganda threads. Didn't a mod ask you to make one thread and use it for these types of posts.

One thing I'd like to see, is a source that the players are divided at all

I'm doubting I will get one

I've seen more than these, but can't remember where. Also, they almost all state that the owners are divided, as well.

"There are fissures in the owners' ranks, as there are in the union membership."

This one is a little confusing because there are 3 sentences that hint at dissension, and one that says there isn't...

But it is instructive to understand as a backdrop to these quasi-negotiations that it seems clear both sides are experiencing some level of disagreement within their ranks.

In case you haven't registered...

"But it is instructive to understand as a backdrop to these quasi-negotiations that it seems clear both sides are experiencing some level of disagreement within their ranks.

One way in which dissension is expressed in collective bargaining negotiations is through the anonymous leaking of key information that either embarrasses one of the parties or serves to disrupt the proceedings.

Now, it would be wrong to say that either the NHL or the union is a house divided against itself, and there is no sign of mutiny against either commissioner Gary Bettman or NHL Players' Association chief Bob Goodenow.

The internal friction on either side is more subtle than that, something more along the lines of differing notions on strategy and opposing political aims."

 

[iagreewithidiots]

A lot of what is in the PA's mind during any negotiations is the future players, the future members of the sport.

Lie to me please.

The current members dont care about future members. Why do you think the first thing they give up is more restrictions on rookie contracts?

The players care only about what they can make today. Im not being critical I understand why they would want things that way. But lets tell the truth, they care about their wallets and their wallets only.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

Lie to me please.

The current members dont care about future members. Why do you think the first thing they give up is more restrictions on rookie contracts?

The players care only about what they can make today. Im not being critical I understand why they would want things that way. But lets tell the truth, they care about their wallets and their wallets only.

Thats the way sports work. In the NBA and NFL both with some sort of capped payrolls the people that took the biggest hit was incoming rookies and young players. I mean everyone in the NBA has guaranteed contracts except for players taken in the 2nd round of the draft (1st contract, after that they are guaranteed)

 

[Bruwinz37]

There's plenty of brotherhood here. A lot of what is in the PA's mind during any negotiations is the future players, the future members of the sport. The PA doesn't want to play in a capped system now, but they are also fighting for the future members, because once there is a cap they aren't going to get out of it.

No they aren't. Something tells me that you arent following these negotiations. It is ALL about the big money players. Several of them have come and stated that they think teams should fold if they cant survive in the current NHL climate. Can you imagine saying that about your teammates and other union members jobs DURING a lockout?

Also, please spare me about protecting future players of the sport. Not only are they first sacrificing rookie contracts but if they keep up with their stubborn attitude they will be costing future jobs, not ensuring them.

I think you need to brush up on whats going on because what say is way, way off base.

 

[Bruwinz37]

God I'm sick of these owners propaganda threads. Didn't a mod ask you to make one thread and use it for these types of posts.

One thing I'd like to see, is a source that the players are divided at all

I'm doubting I will get one

Well I am sure if you search TSN and Sportsnet archives you will find at least 8-10 examples of players speaking up that they may be in favor of a cap (and then retracting the next day of course). If you dont think there are guys in the lower 1/3 of the salary structure that want to play (cap or not) right now then you are kidding yourself. I cannot provide a source for this, but I do have common sense and I am using it.

 

[iagreewithidiots]

Thats the way sports work.

Thats the way they work because incoming players dont have a vote yet. The current players can throw them to the wolves.

Its silly to think in todays sports anyone cares about anything but their own wallet.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

Thats the way they work because incoming players dont have a vote yet. The current players can throw them to the wolves.

Its silly to think in todays sports anyone cares about anything but their own wallet.

But it's not just sports it's every union. Should the UAW care about potiental workers? No they care about the current membership 1st and foremost. I'm not worried about the guy trying to take my job, i'm worried about my myself and i'm not even a union memeber. In life all anyone cares about is their wallet.

 

[iagreewithidiots]

In life all anyone cares about is their wallet.

Thats the point I was making. But my original post was just talking about the NHLPA.

If you want to talk about the entire world then nobody cares about anything but their own wallets. Im not being critical of it thats just the way it is. To think anyone cares about anything but their own wallet is just silly.

So are you arguing with me or agreeing because I have no clue?

 

[Motown Beatdown]

Thats the point I was making. But my original post was just talking about the NHLPA.

If you want to talk about the entire world then nobody cares about anything but their own wallets. Im not being critical of it thats just the way it is. To think anyone cares about anything but their own wallet is just silly.

So are you arguing with me or agreeing because I have no clue?

I agree with you, but dont limit it to the NHLPA, i mean this whole lockout is all about greed on all sides. I mean a common myth is large market teams dont want a cap. That IMO is total BS, since under a cap they stand to make the most money.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Well I am sure if you search TSN and Sportsnet archives you will find at least 8-10 examples of players speaking up that they may be in favor of a cap (and then retracting the next day of course). If you dont think there are guys in the lower 1/3 of the salary structure that want to play (cap or not) right now then you are kidding yourself. I cannot provide a source for this, but I do have common sense and I am using it.

The thing is 8-10 players speaking out is hardly "divided" Yes there are players that want to play right now, there are also owners that want to play right now

I would never use the words "the owners are divided" because I think its false. But if 6 or 7 owners are thinking differently than the others, then the owners are more divided than the players which is 8-10 out of 500

 

[Bruwinz37]

The thing is 8-10 players speaking out is hardly "divided" Yes there are players that want to play right now, there are also owners that want to play right now

I would never use the words "the owners are divided" because I think its false. But if 6 or 7 owners are thinking differently than the others, then the owners are more divided than the players which is 8-10 out of 500

I think you are oversimplifing things. 8-10 players are just a small percentage. Do you honestly believe that the only guys who would play under a cap are these guys? There are plenty more I am sure of it.

On the other hand I dont see many owners at all speaking up against the NHL. I am sure there are some pressuring to get a deal done but I think by and large they all agree something needs to be done in order to survive.

We can agree to disagree if you like. I think there are a significant amount of players who would play with a cap now. If you disagree, that is cool too.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

I think you are oversimplifing things. 8-10 players are just a small percentage. Do you honestly believe that the only guys who would play under a cap are these guys? There are plenty more I am sure of it.

On the other hand I dont see many owners at all speaking up against the NHL. I am sure there are some pressuring to get a deal done but I think by and large they all agree something needs to be done in order to survive.

We can agree to disagree if you like. I think there are a significant amount of players who would play with a cap now. If you disagree, that is cool too.

Unlike the owners, the players are not fined $1,000,000 for saying anything. I'm sure there are 50-100 that would play under a cap. Hell if it was a cap with a large enough ceiling and revenue sharing I would think it would pass a free vote. Just as sure as I am 8-10 owners would have voted for the players last proposal.

Both sides are playing like the have to win and thats why there is no deal in place. A fair compromise on both sides is where it will go and where it should have gone back in June

 

[CarlRacki]

Unlike the owners, the players are not fined $1,000,000 for saying anything. I'm sure there are 50-100 that would play under a cap. Hell if it was a cap with a large enough ceiling and revenue sharing I would think it would pass a free vote. Just as sure as I am 8-10 owners would have voted for the players last proposal.

Which owner was fined $1 million for saying anything?
In recent weeks I've read comments on the lockout from Gretzky, Snider, Nichols, Karmanos, Jacobs and Vanderbeek. None were fined.

 

[davemess]

Which owner was fined $1 million for saying anything?
In recent weeks I've read comments on the lockout from Gretzky, Snider, Nichols, Karmanos, Jacobs and Vanderbeek. None were fined.

You wont get fined for saying what Bettman told you to

 

[Phanuthier*]

Whatever happened to the NHL brotherhood and sticking up for each other?

I think its pretty clear the NHLPA is fighting for the big salaries while the rest of the 95% "take one for the team."

 

[Phanuthier*]

The thing is 8-10 players speaking out is hardly "divided" Yes there are players that want to play right now, there are also owners that want to play right now

I would never use the words "the owners are divided" because I think its false. But if 6 or 7 owners are thinking differently than the others, then the owners are more divided than the players which is 8-10 out of 500

There are ALOT more then "just" 6-7. Heck, double that have done it vocally, while its rumoured that at least half of the NHLPA just wants to see things get going.

As for the owners... it will take 22 teams (75%) to veto Gary Bettman. That is not going to happen. Meanwhile, the players have more to lose considering how long a professional hockey career is, the amount they make / lose and the fact that more the 1/3 of the players can easily be replaced.

Thare are about 50% Steve Begin's out there, and I'm sure Steve Begin is figuring out that the NHLPA is fighting for the big salaries and not him. Steve Begin might also want to take a peak and see that there are thousands of players just like him in the minors, Europe and moving up from junior that could take his spot if he doesn't get playing. Steve Begin also might want to see how much overall money he is losing from his career sitting out a season, and Steve Begin might want to start wondering who's fighting his rights. (The NHL stands to lose just under $300 million a year, while the NHLPA loses $1.2 billion collectively.)

Even if the NHLPA wins, contraction will ultimately occur. Maybe my guesstimate of 10-12 franchises was a little over the top, but its almost guerenteed at least 6 will go - thats 150 NHL jobs. Thats right, Steve Begin, you fall under that 150 jobs that could be lost if there arn't 30 healthy franchises out there.

Are you still sure its easier to gag the owners then the players?

 

[barnburner]

Whatever happened to the NHL brotherhood and sticking up for each other?

I think its pretty clear the NHLPA is fighting for the big salaries while the rest of the 95% "take one for the team."

Exactly.

 

[ScottyBowman]

No. Its pretty clear that the NHLPA is fighting for everyone. People seem to ignore the fact that even if their is a cap, the superstars will still get their $8 mil. Its the 2nd and 3rd line guys who are making $3 mil who will take the huge hits. Take a look at an NFL and NBA roster. A few players are making all the money and the rest are making peanuts.

 

[Bruwinz37]

No. Its pretty clear that the NHLPA is fighting for everyone. People seem to ignore the fact that even if their is a cap, the superstars will still get their $8 mil. Its the 2nd and 3rd line guys who are making $3 mil who will take the huge hits. Take a look at an NFL and NBA roster. A few players are making all the money and the rest are making peanuts.

I tend to disagree (not about the NBA part-I dont care about the NBA). I think if a cap were to happen in the NHL you would see no more 8-10m dollar deals. It would totally handicap a team to have 1/4 of payroll tied up in one guy. You might see some of this initially, but it would go away real quick as teams realize they cant be competitive when they are that financially shorthanded.

Furthermore it has been reported that they want to cap individual contracts at 6m per year. If that is true then that very much benefits the "bottom" 80% of players. Actually it is probably a ploy to get them on the NHL's side.