What wrong with "Mitch'in" Marner?

[Juxta Position]

Every year? No. This year? Yes.

And he played well given the circumstances this year. People are trying to say he was bad this series and I’m not having it. Not this year.

A lot of folks love dumping in the Leafs and so much is deserved. Some of it though is trolling. Matthews had a gutsy effort this year in the face of injury AND he produced when in the lineup.

That doesn’t mean he has been a great performer over the years. It doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized. But there are limits.

Marner on the other hand, has consistently been worse. He played all seven games and contributed squat. There’s no excuse for him AND not only did he not produce, the PK and PP (both of which he’s top unit and played 7 games) were brutal and he was useless on the series losing goal.

These two guys are not the same.

Sure, lets chalk up this year to injury then, but what about last year? injury again right? how about the year before that, injury? nope, what about the year before that? or the year the year before that? How about the year before that?........you see what I'm getting at?

Everyone in Toronto is so quick to say Marner is the problem, and he part of the problem, sure, but so is Matthews. You can't blame everything on Marner when Matthews has proven for the better part of a decade to be just as ineffectual in the playoffs. Matthews will NEVER get the same criticism Marner gets because that would mean Leafs fans have to admit Matthews is not the "superstar" they so desperately want him to be, so they'll point fingers at everybody else, when Matthews should be the first guy they point a finger at.

Your best players need to be your best players in the playoffs, and Matthews has proven that he is NOT that guy.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Playoffs hockey is tough. You don’t need to be big and physical, but you need some grit and to have some fight in you.

You need to be willing to sacrifice the body otherwise should take up another sport.

Marner is soft. He is content to play his style as he’ll get the big paycheque and remain a god in Toronto regardless of performance.

Seems like he’d be a change of scenery candidate to ride out his career in a small market. Utah perhaps?

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Matthews will get more slack because he had that one real good game this year and then got hurt.

But in general he has been very meh in the playoffs, if Marner is traded he won't have anyone to deflect from

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sure, lets chalk up this year to injury then, but what about last year? injury again right? how about the year before that, injury? nope, what about the year before that? or the year the year before that? How about the year before that?........you see what I'm getting at?

Everyone in Toronto is so quick to say Marner is the problem, and he part of the problem, sure, but so is Matthews. You can't blame everything on Marner when Matthews has proven for the better part of a decade to be just as ineffectual in the playoffs. Matthews will NEVER get the same criticism Marner gets because that would mean Leafs fans have to admit Matthews is not the "superstar" they so desperately want him to be, so they'll point fingers at everybody else, when Matthews should be the first guy they point a finger at.

Your best players need to be your best players in the playoffs, and Matthews has proven that he is NOT that guy.

He hasn't been good enough, I agree. But that doesn't mean he never will be.

His numbers are mediocre - not terrible - but not great. Certainly not good enough to be where they should. But I think this year he really did play well when he could. I think he has too much talent not to stick with. And Nylander has consistently be good, that's something to work with.

Marner on the other hand has been flat out bad. Inexcusably so. Completely disappearing in the late stages of a series and doesn't score goals. To top it off, he consistently screws up on game and series winning goals. He's clearly been BAD. In my opinion, irredeemably so. I would've traded him two years ago before his NMC kicked in.

Unfortunately for the Leafs, they've got him and Tavares for another year and they may not be able to move either one. That is brutal.

 

[Juxta Position]

He hasn't been good enough, I agree. But that doesn't mean he never will be.

His numbers are mediocre - not terrible - but not great. Certainly not good enough to be where they should. But I think this year he really did play well when he could. I think he has too much talent not to stick with. And Nylander has consistently be good, that's something to work with.

Marner on the other hand has been flat out bad. Inexcusably so. Completely disappearing in the late stages of a series and doesn't score goals. To top it off, he consistently screws up on game and series winning goals. He's clearly been BAD. In my opinion, irredeemably so. I would've traded him two years ago before his NMC kicked in.

Unfortunately for the Leafs, they've got him and Tavares for another year and they may not be able to move either one. That is brutal.

Fair enough to the bolded. I stated in another post that I remember Datsuyk being criticized early in his career for being a playoff ghost as well, maybe Matthews does figure it out, but how long is his leash?

I guess my point is though that Marner and Matthews are supposed to be the Leafs top players and BOTH have underperformed considerably and Matthews seems to escape scrutiny through excuses, and Marner does not.

A saw an interesting stat on Sportsnet that over the last 33 playoff games McDavid and Draisaitl have combined for 125 points, and over the same number of games, 33, Matthews and Marner have combined for 54 points. Now that comparison may not be fair, as McDavid and Draisaitl are proving themselves to be all-time playoff point producers, but for the Leafs to be successful Matthews and Marner are just not producing any where near good enough.

 

[Rob]

If the Leafs ask Marner to waive his NMC is there really a chance he says no?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If the Leafs ask Marner to waive his NMC is there really a chance he says no?

Absolutely. He’s from Toronto and he doesn’t take criticism well. He may see at as him being scapegoated.

I don’t think anyone knows what going to happen there. I thought he had another year after this. If that was the cas I’d say he’d refuse. But if they tell him they’ll let him walk for nothing rather than re- signing, maybe he will want to spare himself the embarrassment.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Nothing wrong with Marner.


Everything wrong with the coach.

 

[Rob]

Absolutely. He’s from Toronto and he doesn’t take criticism well. He may see at as him being scapegoated.

I don’t think anyone knows what going to happen there. I thought he had another year after this. If that was the cas I’d say he’d refuse. But if they tell him they’ll let him walk for nothing rather than re- signing, maybe he will want to spare himself the embarrassment.

I do not expect a contract extension offer from the Leafs .

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I do not expect a contract extension offer from the Leafs .

And that might be enough to make him leave.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Absolutely. He’s from Toronto and he doesn’t take criticism well. He may see at as him being scapegoated.

I don’t think anyone knows what going to happen there. I thought he had another year after this. If that was the cas I’d say he’d refuse. But if they tell him they’ll let him walk for nothing rather than re- signing, maybe he will want to spare himself the embarrassment.

I think you can frame it in a way that coddles Mitch’s ego though.

“Obviously a lot of people in the media are scapegoating you, some fans, and it’s just a question of do you wanna deal with that for 82 games? And I know you can do it in the playoffs, but say you’re hurt or somethin- just a lotta pressure. Or you could check out Utah for a year. They think the griddy is super cool, and they have those 3.2% beers. Not too strong, it’s a good match, Mitch.”

 

[PaulD]

I think there is a big difference in his play, post injury. Part of it is that he also needs to adapt to playing with Tavares now, which he hasn’t all season.

that a new excuse

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I blame Dubas for allowing the sense of entitlement that emboldened the young core group to run the roost. He bent over, coddled, overpaid, and massaged the ego's of these young millionaire gods(chuckle) Marner was not mature enough to handle it. Maybe Babcock's methods were overboard, but he had a good gauge on it. Marner and this young millionaire's club needed some direction that they had when Lou and Babcock were still running the ship. How things could have been different.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

If the Leafs ask Marner to waive his NMC is there really a chance he says no?

I don't see him waiving. There are a limited number of teams that can even afford his contract, let alone would want him at that price knowing how he's a playoff no-show. And those teams that can afford him kind of suck and are a step down from Toronto where he's from and all his friends are.

A more competitive player might want that challenge of starting fresh in a new franchise, but I have a tough time seeing Mitch Marner prioritizing that over the comfort of playing in Toronto where he's treated "like a god".

 

[PaulD]

Fair enough to the bolded. I stated in another post that I remember Datsuyk being criticized early in his career for being a playoff ghost as well, maybe Matthews does figure it out, but how long is his leash?

I guess my point is though that Marner and Matthews are supposed to be the Leafs top players and BOTH have underperformed considerably and Matthews seems to escape scrutiny through excuses, and Marner does not.

A saw an interesting stat on Sportsnet that over the last 33 playoff games McDavid and Draisaitl have combined for 125 points, and over the same number of games, 33, Matthews and Marner have combined for 54 points. Now that comparison may not be fair, as McDavid and Draisaitl are proving themselves to be all-time playoff point producers, but for the Leafs to be successful Matthews and Marner are just not producing any where near good enough.

Datzuik criticized early in his career.....whats that got to do with with Marner 8 or 9 years in?
Surely you are not suggesting Marner might be another Datzuik , just needs more time and another 90 million 8 year contract.
If you ask me Marner has peaked. Mentally and physically play offs are going to be hell for him going forward.

 

[Fatass]

I do not expect a contract extension offer from the Leafs .

Then bring a UFA July 1, 2025 MM will walk. Can the Leafs afford to let him go for only cap space?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think you can frame it in a way that coddles Mitch’s ego though.

“Obviously a lot of people in the media are scapegoating you, some fans, and it’s just a question of do you wanna deal with that for 82 games? And I know you can do it in the playoffs, but say you’re hurt or somethin- just a lotta pressure. Or you could check out Utah for a year. They think the griddy is super cool, and they have those 3.2% beers. Not too strong, it’s a good match, Mitch.”

They’re still probably going to have to trade him to at least a playoff club. I don’t see him going to a rebuild.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

They’re still probably going to have to trade him to at least a playoff club. I don’t see him going to a rebuild.

Really? At this point i wonder if he doesn’t just choose a nice locale where he can feast on regular season points. Whichever place has the best mozzarella sticks and 3D cinemas. This is the picture of Marner I have, and I refuse to see him differently.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Really? At this point i wonder if he doesn’t just choose a nice locale where he can feast on regular season points. Whichever place has the best mozzarella sticks and 3D cinemas. This is the picture of Marner I have, and I refuse to see him differently.

We’ll see. You could absolutely be right. With only one year left, I just don’t know and I don’t think anyone else does either.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I googled Mitch Marner and this was one of the first results that came up. You have tp wonder about his future in Toronto, with his unsavvy media responses to the Mirtle podcast of implying Marner has hired security to harass media to his lack lustre playoffs that culminated with this play. Matthews & Tavares had 1 goal each in the series and Shanahan is the architect of this 1 and out team, but it looks like Marner is going to be this year's scapegoat. Don't think he deserves to take all the blame, certainly part of it though.

 

[stampedingviking]

Because they haven't all disappointed to the same degree. Marner is the worst. It's not close.

Based on his salary the non appearance of Matthews should be on par with him.

 

[stampedingviking]

I'm no fan of Marner but he didn't say he was a god, so I don't know why so many posters are getting their tails in a knot. He said "we're looked upon as kinds of gods here." It's still a dumb thing to say, but he is referring to the fan adoration that comes with being a Leaf in Leaf Nation. It is one reason why playing in Toronto is a very sharp two-edged sword, great when things are going well, but if a player doesn't perform to expectations, it can be hell. Maybe fans need to find a better balance between devotion and common sense.

Exactly. Lots of posters getting their knickers in a twist complaining about something he didn't say.

 

[stampedingviking]

Won game two. Setup the 1st goal in game 7. Played half the series.

What did Marner do? Honestly… did he do anything? What did that guy do for Seven Games?

And was anonymous in the other games he played. just what you need from the league's top goal scorer.

 

[MoneyManny]

They’re still probably going to have to trade him to at least a playoff club. I don’t see him going to a rebuild.

With the way he plays during the playoffs, i belive he'd much rather go to a quiet rebuilding team with zero expectations, play his soft reg season hockey and cash his check.

If winning was truly important for him it would've shown by now. Toronto makes the playoffs every year.

 

[stampedingviking]

I’ve addressed this already

Matthew gets more of a benefit because:

He was injured this year. This year (what injury?), his excuses for previous years?
He scores goals Not nearly enough
He makes a positive contribution- even if it’s not enough. Really?
He shows up more than Marner Nope
Marner makes huge errors in big moments So do others
This year Matthews played well in limited minutes Nope
Marner disappeared again - and - again - was on the ice for the losing goal. Who else disappeared? Matthews, again
Marners points are almost entirely assists and he doesn’t produce past game four. Marner's a playmaker. Matthews should be the main goal scorer