What Went Wrong?

[Cole Caulifield]

That's exactly what went wrong. And Therrien did not adjust (or "have time to adjust" as some fanboys claim).

We got figured out with ten games left in a 40 game season and the coaches did nothing to remedy the situation.

The leafs had figured us out real good in that last game of the season.

How do you fit that into your "Therrien is the cause for all woes" theory ?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

The leafs had figured us out real good in that last game of the season.

How do you fit that into your "Therrien is the cause for all woes" theory ?

If a meaningless win over the Leafs, who choked 3 goals in ten minutes, and the woeful Jets is the bar you want to set you have bigger issues than your complete lack of hockey know how.

Lemme guess, the Habs weren't saving their efforts against the Leafs but did it in all those shameful losses before that?

 

[Monctonscout]

If a meaningless win over the Leafs, who choked 3 goals in ten minutes, and the woeful Jets is the bar you want to set you have bigger issues than your complete lack of hockey know how.

Lemme guess, the Habs weren't saving their efforts against the Leafs but did it in all those shameful losses before that?

It's moronic to say MacLean outoached Therrien. Their goalie played great while ours basically sucked other than game 2(which we won). Not sure how that in any way relates to the head coach.

I doubt MacLean turned Anderson into Patrick Roy with some magical "win one for the Gipper" speech.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

If a meaningless win over the Leafs, who choked 3 goals in ten minutes, and the woeful Jets is the bar you want to set you have bigger issues than your complete lack of hockey know how.

Lemme guess, the Habs weren't saving their efforts against the Leafs but did it in all those shameful losses before that?

Don't put words in my mouth (bold part).

Also, no matter how much you stomp your little feet to the ground how you know everything and others know nothing, it won't make it true.

Now, on to my actual point.

You said that the habs had been figured out. That "figuring out" for which Therrien had no solutions started against.. oops the leafs.. who beat us at game 41. But then... we beat the same leafs who had figured us out on game 48 ? Oh snap... I guess we weren't figured out at all then ?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

It's moronic to say MacLean outoached Therrien. Their goalie played great while ours basically sucked other than game 2(which we won). Not sure how that in any way relates to the head coach.

I doubt MacLean turned Anderson into Patrick Roy with some magical "win one for the Gipper" speech.

My arguments are as follows:

1. Our game is built from an aggressive D. (who flip the puck up to initiate the breakout)
2. The Sens took the neutral zone away by stepping into where our D likes to operate. (a stupidly aggressive zone-position between the circles and the blue line)
3. Our transition game was hampered because of this, reducing our odd-man breaks and prime scoring opportunities
4. The scoring chances Anderson faced because of this hampered offense were weaker than what we usually offered in our victories or what we could have offered. (less organized, missing a man, perimeter play, etc)
5. Furthermore, our Powerplay was woeful as the three forwards don't move, or move minimally when it's set-up. Allowing the PK to focus on Subban or poke check Markov who pinches like a mad-man.
6. This led to a drastically inefficient powerplay and killed momentum
7. The PK was also weak due to it's quasi-diamond formation which gave the point away like it was a gift.
8. The failure of the special teams, combined with the lack of adjustment regarding our transition play exposed our team's weaknesses (Physically weak D-men, injured players) and allowed Ottawa to exploit our zone with speed (bursting or poking through the puck-side rush we ****ing love to misemploy) and offer MUCH greater scoring chances against our own goaltender.
9. Therefore, Therrien got chumped


This applies to our last ~18 games - win or loss we played poorly after the loss of Emelin and it had partly to do with missing a really solid and agile and STRONG d-man playing 24min a night and partly to do with our team getting mentally lazy and giving up zonal position.

I'm not saying I'm the most learned hockey viewer but I figured some of you would remember one of the only good things about Jacques Martin's system... the defensive structure. Gorges looked great in that system, don't tell me he forgot how to play hockey, it's just that Therrien is asking the D to push up, push up, push up and it works until the opposing team finds out which players to exploit, which centres won't backcheck and so on.

The special teams being so bad is all on Therrien too. No excuse for playing Bouillon at the point, no excuse for no man planted in the paint, no excuse for awful play donw-low. The point shot doesn't always work as we well know.

I'm tired of talking about this, if people disagree they disagree - I'm just saying that we need to be critical of the team's management because mediocrity is not the goal. I want Montreal to win a ********* Stanley Cup before I die and trading for Drewiskie and playing Bouillon on the powerplay isn't giving me any hope - we have a good team, we have a playoff team, it's time for the next step.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Don't put words in my mouth (bold part).

Also, no matter how much you stomp your little feet to the ground how you know everything and others know nothing, it won't make it true.

Now, on to my actual point.

You said that the habs had been figured out. That "figuring out" for which Therrien had no solutions started against.. oops the leafs.. who beat us at game 41. But then... we beat the same leafs who had figured us out on game 48 ? Oh snap... I guess we weren't figured out at all then ?

Beating a bad team with an unsustainable shooting percentage isn't something to be proud of - the Leafs were never as good as their record and they showed it by going down 3-1 to a slumping, listless Bruins. Yeah we also beat Ottawa in a game, doesn't mean that Maclean didn't whoop Therrien all over the chalkboard over the series.

You're harping on one game at the end of the season, but ignoring the string of blowout losses and sputtering toward the end of the season with losses to the Caps, Devils and so on.

I'm saying we have a good team but a coach who didn't adjust after Emelin's injury - you're saying what exactly? The players didn't play with enough heart? They were saving it for next year's playoffs? The refs are in a conspiracy against the Habs? That Gionta and Patches being injured somehow meant that the D had to be so aggressive in their zone? What is your point in all this?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I'm saying we have a good team but a coach who didn't adjust after Emelin's injury - you're saying what exactly? The players didn't play with enough heart? They were saving it for next year's playoffs? The refs are in a conspiracy against the Habs? That Gionta and Patches being injured somehow meant that the D had to be so aggressive in their zone? What is your point in all this?

I'm saying what a lot of people are saying, including our GM Marc Bergevin who most assuredly has played sports before, we went up against a hot goaltender, our goalie wasn't so hot, we had a lot of injuries, and no bounces/luck went our way. IT HAPPENS. The best team, and the team that played the best, does not always win. You don't need to find someone to blame at all costs you know. God knows i've been overly critical of the organization, the coach, and everything habs over the past 10 years. This is the first year that the team actually came to play every night with 100% effort and you think the coach sucks. I can't wrap my mind around why you'd think that. But fine, let's agree to disagree.

 

[Monctonscout]

My arguments are as follows:

1. Our game is built from an aggressive D. (who flip the puck up to initiate the breakout)
2. The Sens took the neutral zone away by stepping into where our D likes to operate. (a stupidly aggressive zone-position between the circles and the blue line)
3. Our transition game was hampered because of this, reducing our odd-man breaks and prime scoring opportunities
4. The scoring chances Anderson faced because of this hampered offense were weaker than what we usually offered in our victories or what we could have offered. (less organized, missing a man, perimeter play, etc)
5. Furthermore, our Powerplay was woeful as the three forwards don't move, or move minimally when it's set-up. Allowing the PK to focus on Subban or poke check Markov who pinches like a mad-man.
6. This led to a drastically inefficient powerplay and killed momentum
7. The PK was also weak due to it's quasi-diamond formation which gave the point away like it was a gift.
8. The failure of the special teams, combined with the lack of adjustment regarding our transition play exposed our team's weaknesses (Physically weak D-men, injured players) and allowed Ottawa to exploit our zone with speed (bursting or poking through the puck-side rush we ****ing love to misemploy) and offer MUCH greater scoring chances against our own goaltender.
9. Therefore, Therrien got chumped


This applies to our last ~18 games - win or loss we played poorly after the loss of Emelin and it had partly to do with missing a really solid and agile and STRONG d-man playing 24min a night and partly to do with our team getting mentally lazy and giving up zonal position.

I'm not saying I'm the most learned hockey viewer but I figured some of you would remember one of the only good things about Jacques Martin's system... the defensive structure. Gorges looked great in that system, don't tell me he forgot how to play hockey, it's just that Therrien is asking the D to push up, push up, push up and it works until the opposing team finds out which players to exploit, which centres won't backcheck and so on.

The special teams being so bad is all on Therrien too. No excuse for playing Bouillon at the point, no excuse for no man planted in the paint, no excuse for awful play donw-low. The point shot doesn't always work as we well know.

I'm tired of talking about this, if people disagree they disagree - I'm just saying that we need to be critical of the team's management because mediocrity is not the goal. I want Montreal to win a ********* Stanley Cup before I die and trading for Drewiskie and playing Bouillon on the powerplay isn't giving me any hope - we have a good team, we have a playoff team, it's time for the next step.

We still badly outchanced Ottawa until late in a couple games where we got frustrated and ran up the score. Bottom line is without Anderson standing on his head early in most games, we'd have been up by a couple after the 1st in all those games. Playing from ahead is a huge difference. Game 5 we dominated then Budaj misplays a couple easy ones and we're down 2-0. Game 4 should have been 3-0 or 4-0 before they scored their 1st one but Anderson made 2-3 great saves to keep it close. He made the game changing plays time and time and time and time again....and our goalies gave up some stinkers in 4 of 5 games.

I don't see how Bouillon being on the PP stops us from winning anything? He isn't a PP QB, but not a complete stiff either. You're makinga huge deal out of minor details and ignoring the huge, bright flashing neon signs. On the PP we DID have somebody in front, either Gionta, Gallagher, Bourque or Pacioretty on the PP's I recall. It's not parking your ass in front and staying there because the PP is built on player movement. Would have been more than fine if Anderson isn't playing out of his mind.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

I think the players gave a great effort all season, even till the last game. Massive heart they have and the ones who get the most heat (White all season, Gorges, Pleks, even Gionta) give an honest effort all the time.

Doesn't mean pedestrian coaching can somehow be ignored. You're ignoring my point right here again: just because they played hard doesn't mean they deserved to win. Just because Anderson is the second coming of Tim Thomas doesn't mean he can't get beat by our team. Therrien couldn't find a way.

I'm not clamoring to fire the guy - he deserves credit for the positive, fun hockey we got to enjoy and the turnaround in culture. This all started when I said that his leash is shorter now, he has 1 year left and didn't impress or adjust down the stretch, it's all I said from the get-go.

Agree to disagree but I think we got out-coached, even if we "out-chanced" Ottawa (which that I disagree).

Re: Anderson - what happened to no excuses? How come this fanbase has such a downtrodden mentality? "Oh shucks we faced an impossible goalie, there's always next year!" Come on.

The thread is "What went wrong?" implying an internal issue - apart from injuries (which are NOT an acceptable excuse) we were out-played. Maybe we "out-chanced" the other team but overall we got beat by a smarter team with a smarter coach. The entire league looks up to Paul Maclean right now and what he accomplished without his star forward or star d-man all season - it's ludicrous to just ignore that fact and think that Michel Therrien is somehow his equal when he hasn't proven otherwise.

 

[Monctonscout]

I think the players gave a great effort all season, even till the last game. Massive heart they have and the ones who get the most heat (White all season, Gorges, Pleks, even Gionta) give an honest effort all the time.

Doesn't mean pedestrian coaching can somehow be ignored. You're ignoring my point right here again: just because they played hard doesn't mean they deserved to win. Just because Anderson is the second coming of Tim Thomas doesn't mean he can't get beat by our team. Therrien couldn't find a way.

I'm not clamoring to fire the guy - he deserves credit for the positive, fun hockey we got to enjoy and the turnaround in culture. This all started when I said that his leash is shorter now, he has 1 year left and didn't impress or adjust down the stretch, it's all I said from the get-go.

Agree to disagree but I think we got out-coached, even if we "out-chanced" Ottawa (which that I disagree).

Re: Anderson - what happened to no excuses? How come this fanbase has such a downtrodden mentality? "Oh shucks we faced an impossible goalie, there's always next year!" Come on.

The thread is "What went wrong?" implying an internal issue - apart from injuries (which are NOT an acceptable excuse) we were out-played. Maybe we "out-chanced" the other team but overall we got beat by a smarter team with a smarter coach. The entire league looks up to Paul Maclean right now and what he accomplished without his star forward or star d-man all season - it's ludicrous to just ignore that fact and think that Michel Therrien is somehow his equal when he hasn't proven otherwise.

In order to "find a way to beat him" your goalies have to keep you in the game.

The 1st period of game 5 is a microcosm of the series. Anderson stones us at one end and Budaj gives up two weak ones and we're down 2-0. We battle back to make it 2-1 but then he gives up another. How do you coach to overcome that time and time again? There is only so much an NHL coach can do. NYR overcame Holtby, because Tortelini is a great coach? No, because Lundquist stepped up and refused to let his team down. If he gives up 4-5 softies and they lose in 5 is it his fault?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

In order to "find a way to beat him" your goalies have to keep you in the game.

The 1st period of game 5 is a microcosm of the series. Anderson stones us at one end and Budaj gives up two weak ones and we're down 2-0. We battle back to make it 2-1 but then he gives up another. How do you coach to overcome that time and time again? There is only so much an NHL coach can do. NYR overcame Holtby, because Tortelini is a great coach? No, because Lundquist stepped up and refused to let his team down. If he gives up 4-5 softies and they lose in 5 is it his fault?

So now you're saying that our goalies (Price) let in softies, not that Anderson was any good. But when I say that it's the d's fault for exposing us to good scoring chances against - it's suddenly "but but Anderson!"

You just exposed yourself when you couldn't answer a single one of my points. At least E=CH engages in a discussion.

 

[AllanMTL46]

Pretty dumb and ignorant article.

 

[dutchy29]

1.Have to stop blaming injuries every season
2. We are still too small
3. Price is till average to poor most nights.

 

[DJ Breadman]

too small and weasely, we got grinded down at the end of the series we had like 6 injuries, guy with the most grit was like 5'8

 

[WakeUpNHL]

too small and weasely, we got grinded down at the end of the series we had like 6 injuries, guy with the most grit was like 5'8

This.

Watch the Pittsburgh/Sens series. The Pens have a combination of SKILLED and HARD NHL players. The Pens will not get pushed around or manhandled by the Sens, the Habs need to get bigger/tougher on the third and fourth line and on defence.

 

[Lshap]

too small and weasely, we got grinded down at the end of the series we had like 6 injuries, guy with the most grit was like 5'8

Our "Small and weasely" injured guys included Pacioretty, Bourque, Prust, White, Eller, Price and Emelin. All big guys. Yes, Gionta was also hurt.

Size is a factor, but the Habs weren't injured because of it.

 

[Habs 1909]

Injuries, getting cold at the wrong time, abysmal third periods. Plain and simple.

 

[Monctonscout]

So now you're saying that our goalies (Price) let in softies, not that Anderson was any good. But when I say that it's the d's fault for exposing us to good scoring chances against - it's suddenly "but but Anderson!"

You just exposed yourself when you couldn't answer a single one of my points. At least E=CH engages in a discussion.

It's both...goaltending was a huge pivotal factor...Anderson played great and our guys played poorly. In terms of quantity and quality of chances I thought we consistently had an edge game in and game out. The only points of the series Ottawa had a clear edge in play was late in 2 of the games where our guys got frustratrated, got away from the game plan and also took penalities.

Whgat did I not answer?

 

[Monctonscout]

Our "Small and weasely" injured guys included Pacioretty, Bourque, Prust, White, Eller, Price and Emelin. All big guys. Yes, Gionta was also hurt.

Size is a factor, but the Habs weren't injured because of it.

I'd put down size as a factor why we lost...but #4 or 5 on the list, very minor factor that may have been trivial had we won the goaltending battle instead of losing it handily.

 

[dmanfish90]

If a meaningless win over the Leafs, who choked 3 goals in ten minutes, and the woeful Jets is the bar you want to set you have bigger issues than your complete lack of hockey know how.

Lemme guess, the Habs weren't saving their efforts against the Leafs but did it in all those shameful losses before that?

Meaningless? How is the Division title on the line game meaningless? :facepalm

It's moronic to say MacLean outoached Therrien. Their goalie played great while ours basically sucked other than game 2(which we won). Not sure how that in any way relates to the head coach.

I doubt MacLean turned Anderson into Patrick Roy with some magical "win one for the Gipper" speech.

No it isn't. MacLean outcoached Therrien. Look at the pressers and the trolling mode activated by PM, not to mention the fact that they're injured 7th seed team beat our beaten down 2nd seed team 4-1 in the series. Says a lot.

1.Have to stop blaming injuries every season
2. We are still too small
3. Price is till average to poor most nights.

Wrong. Proof?

See Carey Price's game log: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/p/priceca01/gamelog/2013/

 

[Monctonscout]

No it isn't. MacLean outcoached Therrien. Look at the pressers and the trolling mode activated by PM, not to mention the fact that they're injured 7th seed team beat our beaten down 2nd seed team 4-1 in the series. Says a lot.

Not sure on which planet saying stupid things and looking like a backwoods hick in press conference is outcoaching somebody. The Player 61 reference basically got the Habs even more pumped for game 2 than they already were. Adding fuel to the fire by motivating the opposition is the dumbest thing a cocah can do at playoff time.

When you win you let sleeping bears lie.

The 7th seed being the 2nd seed was mostly about goaltending, didn't you watch the series. Therien or MacLean had no impact on the goalies' play.

 

[dmanfish90]

Not sure on which planet saying stupid things and looking like a backwoods hick in press conference is outcoaching somebody. The Player 61 reference basically got the Habs even more pumped for game 2 than they already were. Adding fuel to the fire by motivating the opposition is the dumbest thing a cocah can do at playoff time.

When you win you let sleeping bears lie.

The 7th seed being the 2nd seed was mostly about goaltending, didn't you watch the series. Therien or MacLean had no impact on the goalies' play.

So coaching has no effect on the fact they outscored us in the 3rd period 13-0 over 5 games, has no effect on the fact they twice came back from being down in the 3rd period and winning the game?

Explain that one to me...

 

[Sorinth]

I think the players gave a great effort all season, even till the last game. Massive heart they have and the ones who get the most heat (White all season, Gorges, Pleks, even Gionta) give an honest effort all the time.

Doesn't mean pedestrian coaching can somehow be ignored. You're ignoring my point right here again: just because they played hard doesn't mean they deserved to win. Just because Anderson is the second coming of Tim Thomas doesn't mean he can't get beat by our team. Therrien couldn't find a way.

I'm not clamoring to fire the guy - he deserves credit for the positive, fun hockey we got to enjoy and the turnaround in culture. This all started when I said that his leash is shorter now, he has 1 year left and didn't impress or adjust down the stretch, it's all I said from the get-go.

Agree to disagree but I think we got out-coached, even if we "out-chanced" Ottawa (which that I disagree).

Re: Anderson - what happened to no excuses? How come this fanbase has such a downtrodden mentality? "Oh shucks we faced an impossible goalie, there's always next year!" Come on.

The thread is "What went wrong?" implying an internal issue - apart from injuries (which are NOT an acceptable excuse) we were out-played. Maybe we "out-chanced" the other team but overall we got beat by a smarter team with a smarter coach. The entire league looks up to Paul Maclean right now and what he accomplished without his star forward or star d-man all season - it's ludicrous to just ignore that fact and think that Michel Therrien is somehow his equal when he hasn't proven otherwise.

I'm not sure you can really put the blame on Therrien for not figuring out Anderson. When you are outplaying the other team but still losing there are two things you can do, either change things up, or try to keep it up and hope that luck will return to normal. I'm not so sure changing things up will increase your odds of winning. Do you think different line combos would have changed things?

 

[Monctonscout]

So coaching has no effect on the fact they outscored us in the 3rd period 13-0 over 5 games, has no effect on the fact they twice came back from being down in the 3rd period and winning the game?

Explain that one to me...

What can a coach say to his team who's getting stoned at one end and then their goalie gives up a couple of softies? Goaltending at playoff time cannot be overstated. Great saves give momentum and weak goals take it away.

A coach only has so much control, players get frustrated, take penalities and stray from the gameplan.