What separates the winners from the losers?

[Lovedemfanboys]

Playing for the team that scores more than opponent. Hehe.

Seriously though, what qualities Crosby and Kane have that Ovi and Thornton do not? Or is the explanation simple "their teams are/were better"?

Their playing styles differ a lot, for example, looking at younger guys, Marner, McDavid and Laine are not exactly similar so that probably isn´t reason. (I know, it is remain to be seen whether the youngster can translate their clutchness to NHL)

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[X66]

Luck.

 

[Frosty415]

Thornton*

 

[Kelly]

Intangiblez.

No but seriously, I would say playing on a better team and good luck.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

there's always some luck involved. but lets take Ovie for a second, when you keep failing to pass the 2nd round with plenty of different iterations of teams your GM constructed. Then you can't blame that on luck, that's just you not being able to win in pressure situations.

 

[nowhereman]

If it's all about luck, why do some players always seem to find success, no matter the situation? Guys like Messier and Crosby must have a horseshoe jammed up their behinds...

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

GF vs GA.

More GF = winners.

 

[TampaBayLightning]

Staying healthy, which can be luck of the draw

 

[GreatGonzo]

there's always some luck involved. but lets take Ovie for a second, when you keep failing to pass the 2nd round with plenty of different iterations of teams your GM constructed. Then you can't blame that on luck, that's just you not being able to win in pressure situations.

Because Crosby has "carried" his team to such success with as much as Ovechkin has had, right?

Oh wait.....

Its being put into the right situation at the right time, and playing the way you need to. Even then you aren't guaranteed to win, but it sure helps. It's a mix of luck and skill.

Great players have not won while not so great players have. That's the thing about hockey, it's not so much on the individual but the team the individual is on and how that individual contributes.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

Because Crosby has "carried" his team to such success with as much as Ovechkin has had, right?

Oh wait.....

Its being put into the right situation at the right time, and playing the way you need to. Even then you aren't guaranteed to win, but it sure helps. It's a mix of luck and skill.

Great players have not won while not so great players have. That's the thing about hockey, it's not so much on the individual but the team the individual is on and how that individual contributes.

Tell that to Caps fans. They were ready to run Ovie out of town because the Caps keep choking in the playoffs.

 

[snipes]

Team depth.

 

[PunkRockLocke]

Playoff coaching, and players exceling in playoff best-of-seven series aka mental toughness, hockey IQ, and yes intangibles.

Beating teams in the regular season is so very different from winning best-of-seven playoffs series. Strategy and systems wise. Mental toughness and effort level wise.

So there is way less luck than some people like to think. Some guys are winners for be reasons above, not luck, and the same goes in reverse for guys that are perennial losers. It's not bad luck.

There will be outliers (as with everything) but I feel this applies to the vast majority of players.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Good luck and a good team on which everyone (the main players at least) all step up at the same time.

 

[Mickey Marner]

The playoffs is all about adapting. Which certainly isn't something I'd accuse Ovechkin or Thornton of doing particularly well.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Tell that to Caps fans. They were ready to run Ovie out of town because the Caps keep choking in the playoffs.

I like to think those are the "fans" that know little to nothing about hockey. 2016, Ovi was by far their best player....bounced in the 2nd Round. 2017, Ovi has a very weak performance, bounced in the 2nd Round. Either way, something is obviously lacking with that team, and it isn't Ovi.

 

[LeHab]

Hockey is a team sport. No single player should be solely held accountable for a win or loss.

 

[ESH]

there's always some luck involved. but lets take Ovie for a second, when you keep failing to pass the 2nd round with plenty of different iterations of teams your GM constructed. Then you can't blame that on luck, that's just you not being able to win in pressure situations.

How is it Ovechkin’s fault? In 2016 he was the leading scorer in the Capitals-Penguins series.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

4 first overall draft picks in like 7 years.

 

[Syckle78]

If it's all about luck, why do some players always seem to find success, no matter the situation? Guys like Messier and Crosby must have a horseshoe jammed up their behinds...

Or you know they both won when the teams were great and didn't when the teams weren't. Is gretzky less of a hockey player because he didn't win after leaving the Edmonton dynasty? Or howe after the mid 50s? Mario only win twice out of his entire career. Orr had one cup or was it two? Did Ray Bourque suddenly learn how to hockey properly after twenty years in the league when he was traded?

 

[ColbyChaos]

Luck for the most part Kane joined a team that also got a HOF Dman in the 2nd round along with 2 other top pairing guys with Seabrook and Hjalmarsson, throw in other late round gems and briliant trades like Byfuglien, Sharp, etc he was in a pretty good position that allowed him to thrive.

Crosby joined a team that had a lot of talent from early picks along with great trades as well.

Overall those two players had a lot of support to the point they could even have bad stretches and still have their team do well considering Keith, Staal, Malkin, Toews etc were still there to pick up the slack. Hell Pit literally made the playoffs comfortably in 2011 with Crosby only playing 30 or so games and Malkin messing up his ACL that same season.

For most of Ovi's career it seems like it was just him Semin and Backstrom for most of his early days with the team going as far as he goes. Thornton while San Jose had some great teams they also played in the same conference as the red wings, hawks, and Kings at their peaks and unfortunately ran into them a bit too much. I do think They could have easily won over any eastern team in 2010 (even the Caps, Bruins etc who fell early) had they not run into chicago

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

One thing that separates Kane/Crosby from Thornton/Ovechkin is the skew in their production. Kane/Crosby could win a Rocket Richard or lead the league in assists depending on what the opponent gives them. Ovechkin is a goal scorer. His stick is curved in a way where he could probably never lead the league in assists. Thornton is a playmaker. He's at the mercy of his linemates finishing his feeds, even if the right play might be to score a goal himself.

That's not to say Thornton can't score goals or Ovechkin can't pass, but game 5,6,7 of a playoff series, where both teams know each other intimately, I would rather take my chances with the unpredictability of Kane or Crosby than the consistency of Thornton or Ovechkin.

 

[North Cole]

Goaltending. /thread

 

[OVrocks]

Difference is, winners win, losers lose.

 

[Hint1k]

Playoff coaching, and players exceling in playoff best-of-seven series aka mental toughness, hockey IQ, and yes intangibles.

Beating teams in the regular season is so very different from winning best-of-seven playoffs series. Strategy and systems wise. Mental toughness and effort level wise.

So there is way less luck than some people like to think. Some guys are winners for be reasons above, not luck, and the same goes in reverse for guys that are perennial losers. It's not bad luck.

There will be outliers (as with everything) but I feel this applies to the vast majority of players.

We have a sample size of 82 games against the sample size of 7 games. So where the luck factor will make much bigger impact? When people do not know the answer to this question, they start telling other people around about intangibles and mental toughness.

Also some people still do not know why the play-off format is even exist in the first place. Hint: It has something do with the luck and increasing the difficulty of prediction the winner in advance.

 

[daver]

Playing well under pressure. Some relish it, others don't. As for luck, the best players take luck out of the equation.

It should not be a surprise that usually the best regular season players in any era are the best playoff performers: Crosby, Malkin, Kane.