What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[notDatsyuk]

The Tavares signing didn't mess anything up, Covid did lets be honest about that, Covid f***ed the Leafs, without Covid the salary cap would probably be close to 95 million right now because it was supposed to be 85-86 million after 2020, add 4 more years of growth onto that and where would we be?

That's why saying the Tavares signing messed things up just isn't true, the only reason you think it is, is because of a completely unpredictable once in a life time event.

At the time Tavares was signed he was a 27 year old franchise center, EVERY GM in the league would have signed that contract and you would have too don't lie.

Dubas is not a good GM, I could make a list a mile long of the stupid shit he's done but signing Tavares and not being able to predict the world would stop would not be on that list

I disagree with the 'covid' excuse, but that isn't relevant to what I said anyway.

We had Matthews, and Kadri and Nylander to play centre. We didn't need to sign Tavares (especially not at $11M for a 2C).

Even if you want to pretend that the unnecessary Tavares signing didn't create the cycle of massive overpayments, it messed up the development of Nylander as the 2C.

And by the way, I was against the signing right from the start.

 

[ULF_55]

Just say no to the current UFA's.

Offer minimal raises to their RFA's. Let them walk if they don't accept the offers.

The team has only been able to depend on their top players, and although they come up short, the other guys are shorter.

Get some new blood, and I doubt anyone waives.

 

[mydnyte]

Just say no to the current UFA's.

Offer minimal raises to their RFA's. Let them walk if they don't accept the offers.

The team has only been able to depend on their top players, and although they come up short, the other guys are shorter.

Get some new blood, and I doubt anyone waives.

I'd only offer Lil a contract, Gregor was bad, and dressing him in game 7 was insanity

 

[ULF_55]

I'd only offer Lil a contract, Gregor was bad, and dressing him in game 7 was insanity

Robertson they have to offer, and Liljegren.
I think everyone else can be replaced from just about anywhere.

 

[mydnyte]

Robertson they have to offer, and Liljegren.
I think everyone else can be replaced from just about anywhere.

you are definitely correct on Robertson, I forgot about him, the same way Keefe did :p

 

[Torontonian]

Just say no to the current UFA's.

Offer minimal raises to their RFA's. Let them walk if they don't accept the offers.

The team has only been able to depend on their top players, and although they come up short, the other guys are shorter.

Get some new blood, and I doubt anyone waives.

Domi should be kept
Bertuzzi should be kept (if he's making 4.5m~ and playing on 3rd line)!
Dewar should be kept
Robertson should be kept (should get a chance to play top 6 mins)

Kampf Traded
Lilly traded.
Reaves Traded
Jankrok Traded

Nylander - Matthews - Domi
Robertson- Tavares - Knies
Marner - XXX - Bertuzzi
Dewar - Holmberg - McMann

Rielly - XXX (Pesce/Montour/Roy/)
McCabe - XXX (traded for via Lillypad)
Beniot - Edmonsson / Boosh (if the money is right, 2m~)

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If Mitch stays, this.

We really can't do much if Mitch refuses to waive his NMC. Tavares won't either and even if he did we'd have to pay someone to take him. We can at least add one of the best defensive defensemen in the league to our blueline and get a competent goalie to platoon with Woll.

The excitement comes from adding Cowan.

 

[ToneDog]

If Mitch stays, this.

View attachment 873909

See you next year. Same time, same bat channel.

 

[IPS]

If Mitch stays, this.

View attachment 873909

If the lineup resembles something like that next year who even gets up and excited about this team?

 

[mydnyte]

Bertuzzi sucked all season save a 2-week window, then his selfish play cost us playoff games. why would anyone want him back??? forget his lack of hockey sense or ability to take/handle or make a pass

 

[Dough72]

still weird Nylander is escaping all this stuff because he flipped a puck in from the blueline and shot into an open net after a bruin tripped in the corner. They were emotional goals, with a fist pump and everything, but c'mon this is obvious stuff. At least Marner and Matthews come with significant playoff extras. Nylander gives us 0. But whatever, if Marner won't wave I ask Matthews and Nylander to wave. I think a fresh start is the best thing for everybody especially the fans. Otherwise I trade every pick and prospect and make an honest attempt with the fail core. Sauros or nearest equivalent tops the list followed by a powerplay defenceman.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Covid was 4 years ago. Get over it. The problems with this roster started years before the Wuflu arrived.

 

[ponder]

If none of the core 4 waive, realistically we’re looking at a team next year that will be similar to all the other playoff disappointment years - one where we just have too many weaknesses due to all the $$ eaten up by 4 forwards.

In this situation, next year will be a somewhat disposable year, and we’ll hopefully be able to ice real contenders starting the year after that. When Tavares’ contract expires we’ll have the flexibility to build a more balanced team around Matthews/Marner/Nylander (assuming Marner re-signs, it’s also possible he doesn’t waive and then walks … that’s the worst case scenario IMO).

 

[mydnyte]

If none of the core 4 waive, realistically we’re looking at a team next year that will be similar to all the other playoff disappointment years - one where we just have too many weaknesses due to all the $$ eaten up by 4 forwards.

In this situation, next year will be a somewhat disposable year, and we’ll hopefully be able to ice real contenders starting the year after that. When Tavares’ contract expires we’ll have the flexibility to build a more balanced team around Matthews/Marner/Nylander (assuming Marner re-signs, it’s also possible he doesn’t waive and then walks … that’s the worst case scenario IMO).

we had 2 main deficiencies, coaching and defense. 1 has been addressed, and this is a great off season to address the other.
If we had a better defense; one that could clear the puck, or create offense or at least be a 'threat' we win the Boston series easily., even with the poor coaching.
when your defense is a non factor offensively, its a major component to not worry about defending and you can focus all attention on the forwards, and shut them down much more easily.

When JT expires, we need a new #2C, and there is Drais, and Crosby and JT, then a drop in talent ...Faksa/Bennett would be the next best C's available.

 

[ULF_55]

we had 2 main deficiencies, coaching and defense. 1 has been addressed, and this is a great off season to address the other.
If we had a better defense; one that could clear the puck, or create offense or at least be a 'threat' we win the Boston series easily., even with the poor coaching.
when your defense is a non factor offensively, its a major component to not worry about defending and you can focus all attention on the forwards, and shut them down much more easily.

When JT expires, we need a new #2C, and there is Drais, and Crosby and JT, then a drop in talent ...Faksa/Bennett would be the next best C's available.

Since this thread is about marner NOT WAIVING !!!!!

Acquire one top defender.
Play the kids.

Let UFA's go away ... pay their bus fair if required.

In the playoffs Nylander scored as many goals as Matthews, marner and Tavares combined.
He did it in 4 games, they played 19 games.
The lengths some go to discredit goal scoring.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

still weird Nylander is escaping all this stuff because he flipped a puck in from the blueline and shot into an open net after a bruin tripped in the corner. They were emotional goals, with a fist pump and everything, but c'mon this is obvious stuff. At least Marner and Matthews come with significant playoff extras. Nylander gives us 0. But whatever, if Marner won't wave I ask Matthews and Nylander to wave. I think a fresh start is the best thing for everybody especially the fans. Otherwise I trade every pick and prospect and make an honest attempt with the fail core. Sauros or nearest equivalent tops the list followed by a powerplay defenceman.

Another one floating up Denial River without a paddle.

 

[hamzarocks]

The Tavares signing didn't mess anything up, Covid did lets be honest about that, Covid f***ed the Leafs, without Covid the salary cap would probably be close to 95 million right now because it was supposed to be 85-86 million after 2020, add 4 more years of growth onto that and where would we be?

That's why saying the Tavares signing messed things up just isn't true, the only reason you think it is, is because of a completely unpredictable once in a life time event.

At the time Tavares was signed he was a 27 year old franchise center, EVERY GM in the league would have signed that contract and you would have too don't lie.

Dubas is not a good GM, I could make a list a mile long of the stupid shit he's done but signing Tavares and not being able to predict the world would stop would not be on that list

Tavares is a low end 2C or average 3C for the leafs in the playoffs

24 pts in 38 games is 51 pts per 82.

The cap at 95M would not be enough to make up for the huge underperofrmance and overpayments leafs get from 34, 16 and 91 each playoffs

 

[Racer88]

He’s probably sad cause we ain’t been hard and kicking sukas around like we should be.

I concur

 

[Racer88]

He’s probably sad cause we ain’t been hard and kicking sukas around like we should be.

The Tavares signing didn't mess anything up, Covid did lets be honest about that, Covid f***ed the Leafs, without Covid the salary cap would probably be close to 95 million right now because it was supposed to be 85-86 million after 2020, add 4 more years of growth onto that and where would we be?

That's why saying the Tavares signing messed things up just isn't true, the only reason you think it is, is because of a completely unpredictable once in a life time event.

At the time Tavares was signed he was a 27 year old franchise center, EVERY GM in the league would have signed that contract and you would have too don't lie.

Dubas is not a good GM, I could make a list a mile long of the stupid shit he's done but signing Tavares and not being able to predict the world would stop would not be on that list

I have to disagree. No other team got caught by Covid with 4 forwards consuming 50% of their cap……..only the Leafs it was Dubas’s dumb build style and the Tavares was the nail in the coffin..
You don’t blow your budget just because you hope you are getting a big raise, that’s called speculation and Dubas lost

 

[LeafGrief]

I don't think it would matter. Shoestrings and hope in net. New flavour of depth D and forwards, same as the old flavour because there's no cap space.

The one consequential thing you could do would be change the leadership structure. Marner and Tavares both lose their captaincies. Matthews gets the C, Nylander gets Marner's A. In this situation we're just waiting out the final year on the contracts, so make the leadership change early and transition to the new group.

Trade a few players for picks. Don't get too mad at the coach if the team sucks due to the civil war in the dressing room. Consider it a retool year.

 

[Lightsol]

I'd like to see them give a serious try with Willy at 2C, possibly with Mitch on his wing.

To an extent, any combination of forward lines that does not have Mitch with Matty, Willy with JT, or JT higher than 3C.

For the PP, in order:
1 - replace JT with someone like Bert who will actually screen the goalie
2 - replace Mitch with Domi
3 - replace Rielly with a shooter.

Fun fact: the Leafs had the only real massive uptick in their PP effectiveness this year simply by doing 1 and 3 for a month. Then Keefe switched it back and the PP fell off a cliff again.

 

[notDatsyuk]

still weird Nylander is escaping all this stuff because he flipped a puck in from the blueline and shot into an open net after a bruin tripped in the corner. They were emotional goals, with a fist pump and everything, but c'mon this is obvious stuff. At least Marner and Matthews come with significant playoff extras. Nylander gives us 0. But whatever, if Marner won't wave I ask Matthews and Nylander to wave. I think a fresh start is the best thing for everybody especially the fans. Otherwise I trade every pick and prospect and make an honest attempt with the fail core. Sauros or nearest equivalent tops the list followed by a powerplay defenceman.

If that's your take on the guy who scored 1/4 of the goals scored by the entire team, I'm scared to ask what you consider "significant playoff extras".

The idea that either Matthews or Nylander would waive (note spelling), or that the team would even ask their two best players, that they just signed, to do so, is ludicrous.

By the way, they have already tried several times to "trade every pick and prospect and make an honest attempt with the fail core", and it hasn't worked.

 

[Lightsol]

If that's your take on the guy who scored 1/4 of the goals scored by the entire team, I'm scared to ask what you consider "significant playoff extras".

He means that if Nylander isn't scoring, he's a net negative, and that covers his Games 4 and 5.

Nylander has the same problems he's always had; unless he's really feeling it, defense is a suggestion, not a requirement with him. I have a strong gut feeling that he's going to be the core member that gives Berube the hardest time, and he'll be the one the Leafs can't move because of that idiotic contract they just gave him.

 

[mikeyz]

The era of overpaying superstars is over. Bye Mitch

Bringing back the era of overpaying scrubs, Jeff Finger/Dave Clarkson? It's 2024, we're overpaying Pesche and Debrusk.

Time to miss the playoffs and trade our 1st for another bad contract.

Because you wanted it Leafs Nation.

Enough of making the playoffs, let's spend to the cap and over with injury reserve and bring back the Mats Era.

Get a front row seat, this will be the summer that Toronto destroys this franchise for the rest of Matthews time here.

Maybe Seth Jones. Leafs Nation = Village Idiot Nation

I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not, but, if you are? Then holy f***ing shit dude.

Are you seriously suggesting that if Marner alone gets traded we’re automatically going to go back to the wilderness of missing the playoffs year after year?

 

[IPS]

He means that if Nylander isn't scoring, he's a net negative, and that covers his Games 4 and 5.

Nylander has the same problems he's always had; unless he's really feeling it, defense is a suggestion, not a requirement with him. I have a strong gut feeling that he's going to be the core member that gives Berube the hardest time, and he'll be the one the Leafs can't move because of that idiotic contract they just gave him.

Marner looked like a net negative to me this last playoff series too, so what does it even matter?