What Is "The Culture" And How Do You Fix It?

[Toe Pick]

I also think the "hammer" approach needs an overhaul. But I also think it's more than that and Hedger hit it strongly in some Twitter posts yesterday which basically summed it up as a perception problem. There is no "wow" factor with Columbus -- like at all.

We get no national exposure. We get no marquee games -- I mean it's absolutely absurd to us that we still haven't had an outdoor game -- but the national networks could care less about what "we" think -- it's about the ratings. Our "brand" is next to non existent outside Columbus. Our players get an embarrassing level of exposure, even locally.

The only real time we seem to get exposure outside of the Tampa sweep and a big trade here or there is the drama -- benching Laine, the PLD situation, a Torts tantrum, Panarin and co bolting. Storylines that don't exactly scream "come to Columbus!"

Take a step back and what do you think about a market like Ottawa? My guess is you don't hate em and you don't love em -- they are just kind of there. I think that is what the majority of people outside of Columbus think about the Blue Jackets.

So how to fix this problem? Some will say winning -- yes, that will help but even after 4 years of playoffs not much changed and players still wanted to leave so I'm not convinced that will solve the problem.

I will say the more I think about it the more I think a complete rebranding might not be the worst idea -- if executed properly (involve the fans!!!) which is always the risk. Get some cool factor into our name and jerseys ala Vegas.

Also wouldn't hurt to finally land a young marquee franchise talent but we know those odds.

But maybe it's unfixable and we need to accept that we are what we are and have to think differently and strategize around it.

 

[majormajor]

Judging by your liking of a comment, I assume you are talking about Torts. While I was also disappointed in his approach at coaching this season, he really should have been let out of his contract when he told Jarmo he wanted let out of his contract. He knew he didn't fit and it wasn't going to work. He let Jarmo know right after the bubble giving Columbus the whole off season to either hire a guy that fits, or slap an interim tag on Larson and give him a 56 game trial to see what he has, and to start moving in the direction they want to go. Instead the forced a guy that didn't want to be there to coach a team that was opposite of what they were originally trying to build. In turn, they wasted a year, a perfect year to analyze your players, and possibly caused a couple of guys change their mind on playing here.

We would already be one year into a retool/rebuild, but instead we are just starting. If they hire Larsen, then it turns into even more of a waste because we would already have gotten a good look at him for 56 games.

That convo was about players in the locker room and whether teammates could know whether they were giving it all or not.

I didn't intend to bring up Torts, although I get your point in this comment.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I also think the "hammer" approach needs an overhaul. But I also think it's more than that and Hedger hit it strongly in some Twitter posts yesterday which basically summed it up as a perception problem. There is no "wow" factor with Columbus -- like at all.

We get no national exposure. We get no marquee games -- I mean it's absolutely absurd to us that we still haven't had an outdoor game -- but the national networks could care less about what "we" think -- it's about the ratings. Our "brand" is next to non existent outside Columbus. Our players get an embarrassing level of exposure, even locally.

The only real time we seem to get exposure outside of the Tampa sweep and a big trade here or there is the drama -- benching Laine, the PLD situation, a Torts tantrum, Panarin and co bolting. Storylines that don't exactly scream "come to Columbus!"

Take a step back and what do you think about a market like Ottawa? My guess is you don't hate em and you don't love em -- they are just kind of there. I think that is what the majority of people outside of Columbus think about the Blue Jackets.

So how to fix this problem? Some will say winning -- yes, that will help but even after 4 years of playoffs not much changed and players still wanted to leave so I'm not convinced that will solve the problem.

I will say the more I think about it the more I think a complete rebranding might not be the worst idea -- if executed properly (involve the fans!!!) which is always the risk. Get some cool factor into our name and jerseys ala Vegas.

Also wouldn't hurt to finally land a young marquee franchise talent but we know those odds.

But maybe it's unfixable and we need to accept that we are what we are and have to think differently and strategize around it.

I don't want to be fatalistic but the only viable path I see is consistent winning.

Columbus will never have history (at least not any time soon). We're never going to be Toronto or Montreal or Boston. We're never going to be a major market like NY or LA.

At least half the league has natural advantages that Columbus just can't offer to the the players who want them.

Perhaps a rebranding brings a "cool factor" but I think that's way easier said than done. Chicago White Sox of the 1990s come to mind. Can't force it though. Has to happen organically. I think Vegas is probably helped more by being Vegas and not a name, logo or pre-game light show. And again, Columbus is never going to be cool like Vegas is cool. Maybe add some showgirls at the zoo just in case.

There is hope. I'll probably get some push back on this, but I don't know that Pittsburgh, for example, is significantly more appealing than Columbus as a destination other than the fact that they lucked into two generational talents that begat 15 years of winning and Columbus didn't. But that's the type of break Columbus really needs.

 

[CBJx614]

I also think the "hammer" approach needs an overhaul. But I also think it's more than that and Hedger hit it strongly in some Twitter posts yesterday which basically summed it up as a perception problem. There is no "wow" factor with Columbus -- like at all.

We get no national exposure. We get no marquee games -- I mean it's absolutely absurd to us that we still haven't had an outdoor game -- but the national networks could care less about what "we" think -- it's about the ratings. Our "brand" is next to non existent outside Columbus. Our players get an embarrassing level of exposure, even locally.

The only real time we seem to get exposure outside of the Tampa sweep and a big trade here or there is the drama -- benching Laine, the PLD situation, a Torts tantrum, Panarin and co bolting. Storylines that don't exactly scream "come to Columbus!"

Take a step back and what do you think about a market like Ottawa? My guess is you don't hate em and you don't love em -- they are just kind of there. I think that is what the majority of people outside of Columbus think about the Blue Jackets.

So how to fix this problem? Some will say winning -- yes, that will help but even after 4 years of playoffs not much changed and players still wanted to leave so I'm not convinced that will solve the problem.

I will say the more I think about it the more I think a complete rebranding might not be the worst idea -- if executed properly (involve the fans!!!) which is always the risk. Get some cool factor into our name and jerseys ala Vegas.

Also wouldn't hurt to finally land a young marquee franchise talent but we know those odds.

But maybe it's unfixable and we need to accept that we are what we are and have to think differently and strategize around it.

All I will say is that the "winning" people talk bout needs to include the playoffs. Winning and making the playoffs 4 years in a row doesn't earn you respect. Making it to the conference finals 4 years in a row will though.

Just making it to the playoffs might feel like an accomplishment to us CBJ fans, but to the rest of the league it means jack shit. The just win mindset is obviously an oversimplification, but that's how you earn respect in this league.

 

[Monk]

That convo was about players in the locker room and whether teammates could know whether they were giving it all or not.

I didn't intend to bring up Torts, although I get your point in this comment.

Well really it was about JD/JK/Torts, since they're the ones making personnel decisions, but sort of a moot point now since it seems we just don't agree on that front. But I'll just say my thought again JIC it got lost in translation: Whatever perceptions teammates & front office staff have of players that were only in Columbus last season should be seen through the lens of "last season was an anomaly." Doesn't mean those perceptions are wrong, but I'd like to see them established in a normal season before big, future-impacting decisions are made.

We'd be trading Domi and Laine when their value is extremely depressed and I'm unconvinced they will be unable to raise their value or just become strong contributors to the team as early as next year.

 

[CBJx614]

Well really it was about JD/JK/Torts, since they're the ones making personnel decisions, but sort of a moot point now since it seems we just don't agree on that front. But I'll just say my thought again JIC it got lost in translation: Whatever perceptions teammates & front office staff have of players that were only in Columbus last season should be seen through the lens of "last season was an anomaly." Doesn't mean those perceptions are wrong, but I'd like to see them established in a normal season before big, future-impacting decisions are made.

We'd be trading Domi and Laine when their value is extremely depressed and I'm unconvinced they will be unable to raise their value or just become strong contributors to the team as early as next year.

I mean think about it. Laine had asked out for almost an entire season IIRC. And the best they could get was Dubois(whose still a beast of player) but that was after a relatively good season. A lot of teams are gonna want Laine, but they're gonna want him at the extremely discounted rate. Its not worth it to trade him this off-season at all imo.

Unless there's a team out there that thinks he's the missing link for their cup run next year.

 

[Monk]

I mean think about it. Laine had asked out for almost an entire season IIRC. And the best they could get was Dubois(whose still a beast of player) but that was after a relatively good season. A lot of teams are gonna want Laine, but they're gonna want him at the extremely discounted rate. Its not worth it to trade him this off-season at all imo.

Unless there's a team out there that thinks he's the missing link for their cup run next year.

And apparently Domi is out 5-6 months for shoulder surgery. Did we know he had a shoulder problem?

 

[koteka]

All I will say is that the "winning" people talk bout needs to include the playoffs. Winning and making the playoffs 4 years in a row doesn't earn you respect. Making it to the conference finals 4 years in a row will though.

I agree.

But it will be nice to be in the playoffs again and have pre game people talk about the CBJ sweep of the Lightning, and the 5 overtime game. And not talk about the other team’s playoff history and then mention “the Jackets have never won a playoff series”.

It takes time to earn respect. We have made some small steps.

 

[majormajor]

I mean think about it. Laine had asked out for almost an entire season IIRC. And the best they could get was Dubois(whose still a beast of player) but that was after a relatively good season. A lot of teams are gonna want Laine, but they're gonna want him at the extremely discounted rate. Its not worth it to trade him this off-season at all imo.

Unless there's a team out there that thinks he's the missing link for their cup run next year.

Chevy wasn't taking futures for Laine though, so that restricted his returns a lot. Laine is obviously a special case and needs special situations to succeed, so not a lot of teams were willing to trade a currently good player for him, and risk having things blow up in their face (like what actually happened with Laine in Columbus). That was a limited market.

My guess is that in draft pick terms Laine's value has gone from a #1OA+ in the first couple years of his career to about a #3OA at the time of the Dubois trade, to about an #8-#10OA now. And I'd further guess that his value will continue to go down if he stays with the Blue Jackets as he gets closer to UFA status.

Laine is a project, so a cup run team won't want him. I think the best returns for Laine would be from a semi-rebuilding team that has good centers and needs a star sniper. That to me is L.A. and Vancouver, who funny enough happen to have picks in that #8-#10OA range. I'd be all over that trade. We get the best asset possible and, in keeping with this thread, we improve the culture in the room.

 

[CBJx614]

Chevy wasn't taking futures for Laine though, so that restricted his returns a lot. Laine is obviously a special case and needs special situations to succeed, so not a lot of teams were willing to trade a currently good player for him, and risk having things blow up in their face (like what actually happened with Laine in Columbus). That was a limited market.

My guess is that in draft pick terms Laine's value has gone from a #1OA+ in the first couple years of his career to about a #3OA at the time of the Dubois trade, to about an #8-#10OA now. And I'd further guess that his value will continue to go down if he stays with the Blue Jackets as he gets closer to UFA status.

Laine is a project, so a cup run team won't want him. I think the best returns for Laine would be from a semi-rebuilding team that has good centers and needs a star sniper. That to me is L.A. and Vancouver, who funny enough happen to have picks in that #8-#10OA range. I'd be all over that trade. We get the best asset possible and, in keeping with this thread, we improve the culture in the room.

That's completely fair and I didn't even factor that in(Chevy not looking for futures)

I just reaaaaaaallly don't want to trade Laine for picks. Laine is a goal scorer in NHL. Yeah he's not the greatest all around player, but teams do have to gameplan around him somewhat. And trading a bonafide player for picks is a massive risk in that the players you pick may never even play a game in the NHL.

To me, the risk of him never getting back to what he was previously and not signing isn't worth moving him for futures. Even as a rental at the TDL he's gonna bring back at minimum a 1st +

 

[majormajor]

That's completely fair and I didn't even factor that in(Chevy not looking for futures)

I just reaaaaaaallly don't want to trade Laine for picks. Laine is a goal scorer in NHL. Yeah he's not the greatest all around player, but teams do have to gameplan around him somewhat. And trading a bonafide player for picks is a massive risk in that the players you pick may never even play a game in the NHL.

To me, the risk of him never getting back to what he was previously and not signing isn't worth moving him for futures. Even as a rental at the TDL he's gonna bring back at minimum a 1st +

I have a hard time imagining him reaching his potential in Columbus.

 

[CBJx614]

I have a hard time imagining him reaching his potential in Columbus.

I think we'll get a better feel after the Jones trade. If he's moved for futures than I agree. But if it's a 1 for 1 for say Marner, in think we're gonna hold on to him.