What is Jake Gardiner?

[VoluntaryDom]

#3

 

[garyturner3]

Somebody that's going to leave a huge hole on the Leafs' D if he leaves this offseason. As much hate as he gets, he's going to be incredibly tough to replace.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

He's a legit 2-3 guy. People don't realize how he can eat up minutes in crunch time. He had a bad series against the Bruins last year, but he was very good against Washington the year prior (arguably our best Dman) and when we need a guy to step up and play 30+ minutes he can do it no problem.

 

[1specter]

Apparently you forgot game 2 of the Washington series where they went to double OT and Gardiner played north of 30 minutes and was arguably the best player on the ice. Or that in general he was arguably the Leafs best player of the series and played 28+ minutes a game. Or when Rielly got a high ankle sprain in 2016-2017 and Gardiner played an instrumental role in carrying the D down the stretch and basically playing as the #1D as the Leafs tried to secure a playoff spot.

Gardiner has his flaws but his best quality is his conditioning and cardio, he tends to get better as the season goes on because the league tightens up and guys get tired / go cold, while he's still operating at 100%, and in the playoffs he plays big minutes. Other guys get tired when their minutes go up and you can see their legs go out from underneath them but Gardiner continues to play at a high pace even when his minutes rise.

You wanna crap on the guy go ahead but let's not get into overdramatic garbage meme territory here.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Apparently you forgot game 2 of the Washington series where they went to double OT and Gardiner played north of 30 minutes and was arguably the best player on the ice.

Gardiner has his flaws but his best quality is his conditioning and cardio, he tends to get better as the season goes on because the league tightens up and guys get tired / go cold, while he's still operating at 100%, and in the playoffs he plays big minutes.

You wanna crap on the guy go ahead but let's not get into overdramatic garbage meme territory here.

Lol relax I'm not crapping on him, you're correct in that I forgot the one time he did that(in a double OT game so of course he did!). He's averaged 21 minutes a night this season, like his career average, so forgive me for thinking you're being a bit hyperbolic with "he can step up and play 30 minutes a night no problem." "Overdramatic"? that's what you called me? Some of you guys are impossible. Your post seemed to imply that he is that caliber of player that could log Karlsson playoff run type minutes as a non issue...that's just a bad opinion.

 

[1specter]

Lol relax I'm not crapping on him, you're correct in that I forgot the one time he did that(in a double OT game so of course he did!). He's averaged 21 minutes a night this season, like his career average, so forgive me for thinking you're being a bit hyperbolic with "he can step up and play 30 minutes a night no problem." "Overdramatic"? that's what you called me? Some of you guys are impossible. Your post seemed to imply that he is that caliber of player that could log Karlsson playoff run type minutes as a non issue...that's just a bad opinion.

My point was that if he is needed to step up and play big minutes, he can do it when the time comes and he proved it in the past, as his conditioning is probably his strongest quality. Obviously he is not regularly playing 30 minutes a night, nobody does in regular season and Babcock likes to conserve minutes. In the Washington series even outside of the double OT game he was playing 26-28 minutes a night and was the best defenseman by a country mile in that series and one of the best players in general.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

My point was that if he is needed to step up and play big minutes, he can do it when the time comes and he proved it in the past, as his conditioning is probably his strongest quality. Obviously he is not regularly playing 30 minutes a night, nobody does in regular season and Babcock likes to conserve minutes. In the Washington series even outside of the double OT game he was playing 28-29 minutes a night and was the best defenseman by a country mile in that series and one of the best players in general.

Okay well this is a lot closer to reality I still think this praise is getting over the top, though he was good, also he only averaged 22 minutes in last years playoffs so I suspect the Capitals series was likely a one and done example of this. I understand that his conditioning is good but were really talking about one 7 game sample size, I still think my confusion at your claim was 100 percent warranted. I don't want Jake on the ice for 30 minutes in game, basically ever, he's certainly not good enough to "handle those minutes no problem" despite having done it once.

Edit: also he wasn't actually playing 28-29 minutes a night, this is skewed heavily by the double OT game which was the only game he played 28 or more. He still played 25-27 which is obviously good but far more standard than you're suggesting, I would wager Jake has played one NHL game in his entire career at 30 minutes.

 

[1specter]

Okay well this is a lot closer to reality I still think this praise is getting over the top, though he was good, also he only averaged 22 minutes in last years playoffs so I suspect the Capitals series was likely a one and done example of this. I understand that his conditioning is good but were really talking about one 7 game sample size, I still think my confusion at your claim was 100 percent warranted. I don't want Jake on the ice for 30 minutes in game, basically ever, he's certainly not good enough to "handle those minutes no problem" despite having done it once.

No d-man will ever play 30 minutes regularly in a Babcock team, unless there are injuries or it's a game that goes multiple overtimes. In general playing a guy 30+ minutes is unnecessary except in the very specific scenarios.

The Capitals series was also not a 'one and done' example. Many individual games in his career, Jake has stepped up and played 26-30 minutes due to things like another d-man getting injured in the game, or Babcock leaning on him more because of the situation (e.g. Leafs were down a goal or two and needed to catch up, or protecting a lead). When Rielly went down in the 16-17 season (and subsequently came back and struggled until the playoffs), Jake was utilized as the #1D and played a big role in helping them secure a playoff berth and had a few games where he played those minutes.

He also looked great against the Bruins in 2013, and pushed 26-28 minutes in a couple of the games then too.

My overall point is that he is capable of playing big minutes fairly reliably, and can step up and go above and beyond from time to time too. It's going to suck when he's a cap casualty this summer because that's a big hole to fill and currently we don't have the pieces to nullify his loss completely. Dermott can hopefully step up, but he's still a bit raw, and then someone has to replace Dermott on the third pairing, and we also need to upgrade Hainsey. I hope Dubas can make a suave acquisition.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

No d-man will ever play 30 minutes regularly in a Babcock team, unless there are injuries or it's a game that goes multiple overtimes. In general playing a guy 30+ minutes is unnecessary except in the very specific scenarios.

The Capitals series was also not a 'one and done' example. Many individual games in his career, Jake has stepped up and played 26-30 minutes due to things like another d-man getting injured in the game, or Babcock leaning on him more because of the situation (e.g. Leafs were down a goal or two and needed to catch up, or protecting a lead). When Rielly went down in the 16-17 season (and subsequently came back and struggled until the playoffs), Jake was utilized as the #1D and played a big role in helping them secure a playoff berth and had a few games where he played those minutes.

He also looked great against the Bruins in 2013, and pushed 26-28 minutes in a couple of the games then too.

My overall point is that he is capable of playing big minutes fairly reliably, and can step up and go above and beyond from time to time too. It's going to suck when he's a cap casualty this summer because that's a big hole to fill and currently we don't have the pieces to nullify his loss completely. Dermott can hopefully step up, but he's still a bit raw, and then someone has to replace Dermott on the third pairing, and we also need to upgrade Hainsey. I hope Dubas can make a suave acquisition.

Right this is all well and good but you understand the comment I first replied to right? Like what your saying now is much different than the implication of the first post. It was confusing because it wasn't true and I was confused and you said "You wanna crap on the guy go ahead but let's not get into overdramatic garbage meme territory here"...now your just generally telling me Jake Gardiner is a good player who sometimes has to play big minutes when players go down with injuries or when games go into long overtimes...like I get that. And sir I'll have you know Daniel Day Lewis memes are never garbage.

You said: when we need a guy to step up and play 30+ minutes he can do it no problem. What you meant was "he played 30 plus minutes once due to a double overtime game and is capable of logging league average number one minutes when he must" and yeah that's fine. You were hyperbolic, I called you on it, you overreacted again and now your just arguing with no one but quoting me in your replies. Your overall point is fine, I totally agree. Moving on...

 

[1specter]

You said: when we need a guy to step up and play 30+ minutes he can do it no problem. What you meant was "he played 30 plus minutes once due to a double overtime game and is capable of logging league average number one minutes when he must" and yeah that's fine. You were hyperbolic, I called you on it, you overreacted again and now your just arguing with no one but quoting me in your replies. Your overall point is fine, I totally agree. Moving on...

If this is how you wanna see it that's fine. You interpreted it differently from what I meant, I mean I thought it would be common sense that Jake isn't going to be regularly playing 30+ minutes (seeing as nobody on Babcock's teams do that) and that's what I was trying to explain since your initial reply was literally just a meme and then you needed it spelled out in terms of what I meant . Anyways I'm done here, I don't care to discuss this any further.

 

[AvatarAang]

I'll do you one better.

Why is jake gardiner

 

[Captain Mountain]

This separation of #2 D vs. 2nd pairing D-man is weird to me.

Gardiner is a #2 D man and a 2nd pairing D-man. I think the majority of teams keep their best and 2nd best D-man on different pairs (on of which would be the 2nd pair).

 

[Ryan Michaels]

If this is how you wanna see it that's fine. You interpreted it differently from what I meant, I mean I thought it would be common sense that Jake isn't going to be regularly playing 30+ minutes (seeing as nobody on Babcock's teams do that) and that's what I was trying to explain since your initial reply was literally just a meme and then you needed it spelled out in terms of what I meant . Anyways I'm done here, I don't care to discuss this any further.

You just thought it was common sense that nobody would be playing 30 plus minutes a night and decided to also say Jake was doing that, while actually meaning he did it once. Also you keep saying "of course he wouldn't be regularly doing it" as though I also don't understand that. There's a difference between me wanting him to have done it regularly to support your claim vs having done it more than once in a double OT game. Yes I did need that "spelled out for me" God I'm a moron. Yes we're done here, good day sir.

 

[Spirit of 67]

2nd pair D man.

 

[dukeofjive]

For a second i thought this was a jeopardy answer.

Hes a good 2 or 3 D.

 

[NiL8r87]

high end 2nd pair imo.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Last two years he was a high end #3 D. This year he hasn't been as good, I'd say a pretty average 2nd pairing D. Despite him being the scapegoat of Leaf fans, his year has been less offense but also less defensive mistakes. Seems like he really took game 7 to heart and is trying to be more predictable and not caught making a huge mistake.

I went from wanting him re-signed at all costs to wanting him only if he takes close to his current deal to stay - meaning he is likely gone.

However, if he moves to a different team who needs an offensive guy (like the Oilers) and they let him run their PP and all that, I can see him shining again and being a really good signing.

When he is on he is a really good D. Has gotten way too much hate.

 

[tony d]

A very good 2nd pairing defenseman.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Better than most, worse than some

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Textbook 2nd pairing dman, don't think anyone can seriously argue 1st pair or 3rd pair.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.