What held John Tavares back?

[ijuka]

Easiest "skating" of my life.

Issue since junior.

 

[Voight]

Maybe not as a Crosby/McDavid type but IDK man the hype around Tavares particularly around the 09 Juniors was pretty insane

I think most thought he would have stats similar to a guy like Stamkos, potential 50 goal, 90 point + type player

Well, he had won CHL player of the year + OHL MVP at 16 years old which was fairly historic. (followed that up with a 118 point year) Then in the 2009 WJC he had one of the best tournaments ever.

 

[Dave92]

I think he mostly lived up to the hype. He was/is a legit all-star caliber centerman and is staying around a PPG into his 30's.

Becoming a Crosby, Mcdavid level player isn't realistic expectations for anyone.

 

[waitin425]

If Crosby, McDavid and Ovechkin are the Getzky and Lemieux of this generation.

Tavares falls into the Yzerman and Sakic category. (minus the cups )

Great player. Hall of Famer. That is all

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

If Crosby, McDavid and Ovechkin are the Getzky and Lemieux of this generation.

Tavares falls into the Yzerman and Sakic category. (minus the cups )

Great player. Hall of Famer. That is all

No shame in that fantastic career

 

[sabremike]

Seriously. Dude nearly won the Art Ross playing with Kyle Okposo.

As for the OP, its true he got a lot of hype (which was earned, dude absolutely dominated as a kid/teen) but I don't think anyone who was fair thought he was going to be an all time great.

Kyle Okposo was a really really good player until he suffered an injury that literally almost killed him and caused him to go insane (read The Athletic article on this). The fact that he was even able to come back from that to be a useful NHL player and captain speaks to his character.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Skating would be the obvious weakness. He’s lived up to the expectations of being a 1st overall pick though. A franchise center is who you expect to draft at #1. No shame in being a Modano or Sundin tier 1st overall pick.

Exceptional status just means your mentally and physically mature enough to play a year up. Tavares was like 6’ 170 lbs when he was drafted at 14 and played a mature game. Out of the players who played in the OHL at 15 (Fata, Spezza, Tavares, Ekblad, McDavid, Day, Wright) Tavares had the best OHL career and 2nd best NHL career.

 

[MAB1]

Remind's me of a middle-class version of Crosby tbh. Crosby doesn't have a shot like Ovi/Matthews, skating like McDavid, play d like Datysuk/Bergeron or hands like Kane but he can do everything elite. Tavares is that except he's a poor skater while Crosby is/was strong in that regard.

 

[Machinehead]

I think he's pretty much all that he could have been.

He was held to unfair expectations because of an accolade that he received at 14.

 

[AvroArrow]

Skating 10000%, he has everything else. The hands, vision, playmaking, shot, defense, faceoffs, just the slowest damn guy on the ice.

He made a huge effort to improve that part of his game this summer, he's still not a great skater but much better than before and it's having a really positive impact for him and the team so far.

 

[34]

“All time great” ?

What is the supposed definition of this?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

If Crosby, McDavid and Ovechkin are the Getzky and Lemieux of this generation.

Tavares falls into the Yzerman and Sakic category. (minus the cups )

Great player. Hall of Famer. That is all

No he's a step down from those players.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

To make him an all time great, you’d have to improve his shooting, skating, passing, and teammates

To make him reach his reasonable potential of a High end 1C, probably just skating and his teammates

 

[Hockeyholic]

Tavares isn't close to an Yzerman or Sakic type player.

Tavares is borderline HOFer. Could go either way.

 

[Sky04]

He had 47 goals 88 points a few years ago and finished one point shy of winning the scoring title im 14-15 while playing for the Islanders... And the season before that he paced for 91 points.

Stamkos has broken 90 points like 6 times and Tavares none, he's a career 70 point player.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

He is going to cruise past 1000 career points. I really fail to classify almost any player that passes that milestone as a disappointment. It just logically doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Sky04]

"Linemates held him back"

- Plays on one of the most stacked offensive teams in the league the last couple years and has 1 PPG season in the last 4 years.

The more I watch Tavares' the more impressed I am about a player like Thornton who was an even weaker skater but played with pure vision and passing ability, Thornton at ages 28-31 blows Tavares out of the water.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Stamkos has broken 90 points like 6 times and Tavares none, he's a career 70 point player.

Tavares's averaged 78 points per 82 games, and has scored at an 80+ point pace 7 times. Not sure where you got 70 points from lol.
For comparison, Stamkos's average pace is 87 points. Not really a huge difference, especially when you consider that Stamkos played his entire career with elite players like St Louis, Kucherov, Hedman, Lecavalier, Point etc.

Meanwhile Tavares played through his prime with nobodies on very weak teams. He was the Islanders most productive player in every season except his last, where Barzal had 1 more point. Meanwhile, Stamkos has only lead his team in scoring 3 times.

Let Tavares start his career alongside St Louis and put Stamkos on Long Island for 8 years and their numbers look completely different.

 

[AvroArrow]

"Linemates held him back"

- Plays on one of the most stacked offensive teams in the league the last couple years and has 1 PPG season in the last 4 years.

The more I watch Tavares' the more impressed I am about a player like Thornton who was an even weaker skater but played with pure vision and passing ability, Thornton at ages 28-31 blows Tavares out of the water.

Thornton at ages 28-31 blows 95% of NHLers of all time out of the water

 

[Sky04]

Tavares's averaged 78 points per 82 games, and has scored at an 80+ point pace 7 times. Not sure where you got 70 points from lol.
For comparison, Stamkos's average pace is 87 points. Not really a huge difference, especially when you consider that Stamkos played his entire career with elite players like St Louis, Kucherov, Hedman, Lecavalier, Point etc.

Meanwhile Tavares played through his prime with nobodies on very weak teams. He was the Islanders most productive player in every season except his last, where Barzal had 1 more point. Meanwhile, Stamkos has only lead his team in scoring 3 times.

Let Tavares start his career alongside St Louis and put Stamkos on Long Island for 8 years and their numbers look completely different.

What's the excuse in their massive gap in scoring production in recent years while Tavares has played on a top5 offense? Hmmmm

 

[A1LeafNation]

Garth Snow

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What's the excuse in their massive gap in scoring production in recent years while Tavares has played on a top5 offense? Hmmmm

Stamkos is the premier shooter on his team, which gives him a lot of opportunities to play that prime scoring role on their PP. The overwhelming majority of their production difference is on the PP (Tavares actually has more ES points in the last 5 years).

Tavares has a similar goal scoring center ahead of him in the depth chart so he plays 2nd fiddle to Matthews. Though I would also argue he has (expectedly) begun his decline earlier than Stamkos, which is really not too shocking considering his skating isn't great.

 

[Sky04]

Stamkos is the premier shooter on his team, which gives him a lot of opportunities to play that prime scoring role on their PP. The overwhelming majority of their production difference is on the PP (Tavares actually has more ES points in the last 5 years).

Tavares has a similar goal scoring center ahead of him in the depth chart so he plays 2nd fiddle to Matthews. Though I would also argue he has (expectedly) begun his decline earlier than Stamkos, which is really not too shocking considering his skating isn't great.

Players who don't depend on skating usually age better, Thornton, Crosby, Sedin, Backstrom all put up great seasons in their early 30's, Tavares lack of production isn't just due to skating. He's quite overrated in general.

Stamkos has topped his career high twice in the last 4 years, they're just a different class of players.

 

[wintersej]

Man he carried some dud wingers to some great totals on the island. Too bad we never got to see him in his prime with a winger that matches his talent and play style. Him with a Tkachuk instead of a Moulson, for instance.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Tavares more like a Mike Modano level than a Steve Yzerman.