What happened to Guy Chouinard c.1983/1984?

[The Panther]

Guy Chouinard was just a little before my time, so I'm wondering if you guys (any gals?) can enlighten me.

The basic biographical stuff I can see: Chouinard was drafted by Atlanta in 1974 (aged 17), became an NHL regular from October 1976 (the month he turned 20). Became a star in 1978-79, with 50 goals (4th NHL) and 107 points (6th NHL). Right after the Flames moved to Calgary (summer 1980), he put up 83 points in 52 games (a 128-point pace!), including 17 points in 16 playoff games. Then, 80 points in just 64 games the next year, 1981-82 (still a 100-point pace). He dipped a bit in 1982-83, with 72 points, but still 4th-best on the Flames.

At this point, Chouinard is just 26, going on 27. Early in training camp 1983 (btw, just days before the Saddledome officially opened), the Flames "traded" him to St.Louis for "future considerations". How does that make sense? How do you go from a 100-point pace player to traded for literally nothing a year later?

In St.Louis, he plays one season under Jacques Demers -- a French-Canadian coach -- finishing 3rd in scoring among centers (behind Federko and young Gilmour), but only 7th in team scoring.

In training camp 1984 (aged only 27), Chouinard is demoted to the Peoria Rivermen of the IHL. He plays in 9 games, and then, according to his Wikipedia page, "opted to retire". (Fortunately, he went on to have a great coaching career in the QMJHL.)

But I'm thinking there's more to this story than just he "opted to retire". How do you go from a 100-point player in your mid-20s to IHL demotion in 1.5 years later?

Click to read more...

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

Well, Chouinard was basically chased out of St. Louis by GM Ron Caron.
He first ended up in the doghouse of Jacques Demers and was a healthy scratch for the majority of the 1984 playoffs. Then in the summer Caron told Guy Chouinard and Jack Carlson that their days were over with the Blues and that the team would go with younger players.Carlson was one month away from being 30 and Chouinard was still only 27.

Chouinard was not invited to training camp in the fall and it wasn’t until early January 1985 that the Blues management contacted Chouinard again. He was still under contract and was told that they might need his services again in case the Blues would run into injuries.

They asked him to get into shape by playing some games in Peoria, but after a month there they told him he wasn’t needed anymore. By that point he was thinking about a coaching career. I am not sure though why he didn’t try to hook up with another team, maybe he was just fed up with it all.

 

[The Panther]

Chouinard was not invited to training camp in the fall and it wasn’t until early January 1985 that the Blues management contacted Chouinard again. He was still under contract and was told that they might need his services again in case the Blues would run into injuries.

Wow, thanks, I hadn't realized the part (bolded) above! That's bizarre that, at 27, he was already not invited to training camp.... hard to explain. Did this guy maybe have personality issues, or something else?

 

[FerrisRox]

I am puzzled by the Flames trading him for absolutely nothing. There's definitely more to that story. But in terms of his retirement, Chouinard had this to say, during his playing days: "My philosophy is simple. And that is that you fire all the ammunition you can for as long as you can. When you can no longer give your best and cannot help the team, then it's time to hang 'em up. You should always strive to be a rising star in whatever business you're involved in."

 

[GlitchMarner]

I made a thread inquiring about Chouinard a while back.

Apparently he had some injuries and had pretty much become a PP specialist toward the end...

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-chouinard-pavelich-rogers-stoughton.2380453/

 

[crobro]

What about the Flames 78-79 team.

What happened there?

 

[Howie Hodge]

A very talented player who's passion for the game dwindled as he hid his mid twenties.

Reminds me of Craig Janney, Barry Pederson and especially Jimmy Carson in that sense....

(Janney was late twenties, but same thing.. Barry Pederson had some health issues, but put up two good seasons afterwards before going stagnant.)

 

[decma]

I am puzzled by the Flames trading him for absolutely nothing. There's definitely more to that story.

I was also puzzled by this. I checked newspaper archives but didn't see any discussion of the trade.

In Feb. 82 Neil Campbell wrote that Chouinard and Willie Plett were rumored to be going to Montreal for Brian Engblom and Doug Risebrough.

Eight months later (Sept. 82) the Habs dealt Engblom to Washington (part of the big Langway-Walter trade) and Risebrough to Calgary for future considerations.

A few months after that (Feb. 83) Al Strachan reported a trade rumor of Al MacInnis (then in junior) and Chouinard to LA for Larry Murphy.

And then another eight months it's Chouinard to the Blues for futures. Maybe it was the injuries and the fallen production which was quite reliant on the PP. So maybe there is nothing else to the story, but I would think he might have been worth a little more on the trade market.

 

[FerrisRox]

Eight months later (Sept. 82) the Habs dealt Engblom to Washington (part of the big Langway-Walter trade) and Risebrough to Calgary for future considerations.

Risebrough netted the Habs a draft pick. I believe he was traded along with a pick for a couple of picks back from Calgary.

 

[Habsfan18]

I’ll check my THN archives when I get home from work and see if I can come up with anything of interest.

 

[MS]

Guy Chouinard was just a little before my time, so I'm wondering if you guys (any gals?) can enlighten me.

The basic biographical stuff I can see: Chouinard was drafted by Atlanta in 1974 (aged 17), became an NHL regular from October 1976 (the month he turned 20). Became a star in 1978-79, with 50 goals (4th NHL) and 107 points (6th NHL). Right after the Flames moved to Calgary (summer 1980), he put up 83 points in 52 games (a 128-point pace!), including 17 points in 16 playoff games. Then, 80 points in just 64 games the next year, 1981-82 (still a 100-point pace). He dipped a bit in 1982-83, with 72 points, but still 4th-best on the Flames.

At this point, Chouinard is just 26, going on 27. Early in training camp 1983 (btw, just days before the Saddledome officially opened), the Flames "traded" him to St.Louis for "future considerations". How does that make sense? How do you go from a 100-point pace player to traded for literally nothing a year later?

In St.Louis, he plays one season under Jacques Demers -- a French-Canadian coach -- finishing 3rd in scoring among centers (behind Federko and young Gilmour), but only 7th in team scoring.

In training camp 1984 (aged only 27), Chouinard is demoted to the Peoria Rivermen of the IHL. He plays in 9 games, and then, according to his Wikipedia page, "opted to retire". (Fortunately, he went on to have a great coaching career in the QMJHL.)

But I'm thinking there's more to this story than just he "opted to retire". How do you go from a 100-point player in your mid-20s to IHL demotion in 1.5 years later?

It still looked like he was putting up points on paper by the end of his time in Calgary, but when you look deeper he was a glorified PP specialist and an ES liability at that point.

He'd gone from a guy who had 82 ES points in 78-79 to a guy who had just 32 ES points in 82-83 (and 40 on the PP). Moreover, he was getting eviscerated defensively and was a -24 on a team where the next-worst forward was a -8.

On getting traded to St. Louis, he was very quickly passed by a rookie Doug Gilmour who proved to be a vastly better player almost immediately, and again relegated to a PP specialist role.

With St. Louis having Federko and Gilmour as their top 2 centers, having this sort of defensive black hole/PP specialist on their roster was unnecessary, and he was dumped to the minors which basically ended his career.

Jason Allison might be a contemporary comparable who still looked productive on paper due to his PP scoring but simply couldn't keep up well enough at ES to stay in the league.
__________

The league and the quality of play were evolving incredibly quickly in the early 1980s - probably quicker than at any other point in the history of the sport - and players born in the mid-1950s generally had extremely short careers, with almost no forwards born from 1952-56 producing well much past age 31 or so.

Chouinard is one of the most extreme examples of this, but it's a pattern we see pretty much across the board. It wasn't a time where there were Hossas/Iginlas/Thorntons producing at a high level until age 38-40.

 

[Habsfan18]

I’ll check my THN archives when I get home from work and see if I can come up with anything of interest.

Update on this. Just checked the September 23rd edition of THN (which would have been the first one after his trade) and I couldn’t find a single mention of that trade. The only time it seemed he was listed or mentioned in the issue was on the Blues upcoming training camp list.

 

[Habsfan18]

Actually, just looked over the issue again and noticed a very brief mention by Steve Simmons in his column.

Other than this mention, I can’t find anything. Very odd that it was basically viewed as a nothing trade in the hockey community and for obviously a nothing return (future considerations). Not sure if we will ever know the full story.

Anyways, here’s the mention:

“Will anyone show up to watch the Blues in St. Louis? Does anyone know they’re still there? Does anyone in St. Louis know who Ron Caron is? After attending one game and listening to him shout, are they going to want to know him? One good thing about the Blues: At least they’ll have a good power play. Caron insured that when he acquired good guy Guy Chouinard without giving up anything.”

 

[The Panther]

The league and the quality of play were evolving incredibly quickly in the early 1980s - probably quicker than at any other point in the history of the sport - and players born in the mid-1950s generally had extremely short careers, with almost no forwards born from 1952-56 producing well much past age 31 or so.

Chouinard is one of the most extreme examples of this, but it's a pattern we see pretty much across the board. It wasn't a time where there were Hossas/Iginlas/Thorntons producing at a high level until age 38-40.

Really interesting observation. Thank you!

 

[Alan B]

He was my favourite centre in the 70s and early 80s before he retired. Was devastated when I found out he packed it in with St. Louis. I did see him play with the Blues in Vancouver before he retired. I read he no longer had passion for the game, but I was dumbfounded Calgary let him go.
He was the reason Lanny McDonald got 66 goals in 1982. Flames would have been even stronger in the early 80s if they hadn't let him go. He irritated and single-handedly beat the Flyers in the 1981 playoffs if I recall. Huge Flames mistake...missed you Guy.

 

[streitz]

By the looks of things and according to my investigation.



He scored 46 points in 64 games.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

I really think that eye injury did him in - he was still an elite passer, but after that he couldn't put the puck in the net anymore. He also clearly lost a step coming into the 82-83 season, perhaps because of the groin pull.