What does Kucherov need to do to surpass Ovechkin and become the greatest Russian player to ever play in the NHL?

[T REX]

It correlates to the fact that he’s hit 50 goals more times than anyone else in NHL history. Same thing for 40 or 30 goal seasons. Again, consistency.

What trophy do they give out again for average lap? Help me out

 

[Silky Johnson]

It will be very hard to do,
after 725 games Kuch has 320 G, 873 P
after 725 games OV had 449 G, 857 P
OV is just too many Gs ahead.
And after that OV added 5 Rockets and might break the unbreakable record.

"The" Unbreakable record is not goals. It's points ans assists. Not enough separation to call it unbreakable.

 

[wetcoast]

"The" Unbreakable record is not goals. It's points ans assists. Not enough separation to call it unbreakable.

I also think the goals record doesn't distinguish the all out effort for goals over other parts of the game.

I mean what if every aging superstar was gifted PP and elite TOI and usage and told just shoot and go for it?

That being said I've had Ovi as my #1 goalscorer or all time for several seasons now but this playoffs and large stretches of this season were just plain ugly.

 

[Toby91ca]

That’s because the 2013, 2020 and 2021 seasons are shortened, and cannot be directly compared to others. He missed over 80 games from those 3 seasons, which is why looking at the production per 82 games makes the most sense.

It’s not a pace, it’s most similar to an average lap speed in a race.

I’m not taking sides on this one, but I know several lose their minds about Matthews and goal scoring during those years as well and point to him only scoring 50 once before this season

 

[Toby91ca]

I think you and I live in different universes

In what universe has Ovechkin scored more 50 goal seasons than anyone else? Maybe I’m wrong, but pretty sure Gretzky and Bossy have just as many

 

[Planetov]

I also think the goals record doesn't distinguish the all out effort for goals over other parts of the game.

I mean what if every aging superstar was gifted PP and elite TOI and usage and told just shoot and go for it?

That being said I've had Ovi as my #1 goalscorer or all time for several seasons now but this playoffs and large stretches of this season were just plain ugly.

The bolded is top-notch, S-tier, generational copy pasta. I will admit parroting ideas is less taxing than original thought.

 

[pi314]

I know which one I would take in a game 7.

 

[wetcoast]

The bolded is top-notch, S-tier, generational copy pasta. I will admit parroting ideas is less taxing than original thought.

I see that you don't disagree everyone can watch and analyze for themselves right?

It's not like there is anyone who doesn't succumb to father time.

 

[glenngineer]

I'm guessing he/she is talking about the average for an 82 game season. Ovechkin played 1426 games and scored 853 so far, so if you do (853 * 82 / 1426), you get about 49 goals per an 82 game season.

Very easy. We're using Ovechkin's career pace from his rookie season until the end of the 2022 season (age 20 to 36).

780 goals in 1,274 games = 50.2 goals per 82 games.

The problem is the statement says he averaged 50 goals per season for the first 16 seasons of his career.

He played 1197 games and scored 730 goals in his first 16 seasons. 730 goals divided by 16 seasons = 45.62 goals per season or .61 GPG. This is his actual performance. He averaged 74.8 games per season.

If you assume he stays healthy and plays all 82 games a year, then by all means, he averaged 50 per season for his first 16 years. That's why I asked about the math because it depends on how you the data is used.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

what else would he need to add to his resume to be able to catch OV and become the greatest Russian player to play in the league?

Get drafted.

Sorry my bad.

He was drafted already.

 

[wetcoast]

I know which one I would take in a game 7.

At their absolute peak it would be Oveckhin for a game 7.

 

[Toby91ca]

At their absolute peak it would be Oveckhin for a game 7.

Neither have been great in game 7s.....I checked their game logs....pretty quickly, so this may not be totally accurate. Ovechkin has clearly been better individually, but not great stats and his team didn't fair very well. For Kucherov, I don't think he's ever scored a point in a game 7, but his team has faired better.

Ovechkin - 12gp, 5 goals, 9 points, -3, team record of 4 wins, 8 losses

Kucherov - 6gp, 0 goals, 0 points, -1, team record of 4 wins, 2 losses

 

[HabsQC]

0-3 comeback vs Panthers

 

[wetcoast]

Neither have been great in game 7s.....I checked their game logs....pretty quickly, so this may not be totally accurate. Ovechkin has clearly been better individually, but not great stats and his team didn't fair very well. For Kucherov, I don't think he's ever scored a point in a game 7, but his team has faired better.

Ovechkin - 12gp, 5 goals, 9 points, -3, team record of 4 wins, 8 losses

Kucherov - 6gp, 0 goals, 0 points, -1, team record of 4 wins, 2 losses

I wasn't even replying to what actually happened in their respective game 7s but rather which guy brought more as an individual player at their peak in the playoffs and Oveckhin at his peak goal scoring physicality and as a force in the late early 200os was a force in the playoffs and as a player.

 

[SuperScript29]

The problem is the statement says he averaged 50 goals per season for the first 16 seasons of his career.

He played 1197 games and scored 730 goals in his first 16 seasons. 730 goals divided by 16 seasons = 45.62 goals per season or .61 GPG. This is his actual performance. He averaged 74.8 games per season.

If you assume he stays healthy and plays all 82 games a year, then by all means, he averaged 50 per season for his first 16 years. That's why I asked about the math because it depends on how you the data is used.

Your 74.5 games per season is flawed, because you're not taking into consideration that 3 of those seasons were shortened for everyone. I think we can leave the whole multiplication by 82 out for now and just do goals divided by games played. Ovechkin and Gretzky are almost equal with that number among players who played over 1000 games, and when you think about the generations they played in, Ovechkin imo is a greater goal scorer.

 

[Planetov]

I see that you don't disagree everyone can watch and analyze for themselves right?

It's not like there is anyone who doesn't succumb to father time.

I’ve seen you in enough Ovechkin threads to know which way you swing—which is fine, as we all have players we dislike. But when you use the phrases “gifted” and “just shoot and go for it”, there isn’t exactly a code to crack here.

To put it more bluntly, I don’t find your analysis objective or genuine—especially when it is that unoriginal.

 

[wetcoast]

I’ve seen you in enough Ovechkin threads to know which way you swing—which is fine, as we all have players we dislike. But when you use the phrases “gifted” and “just shoot and go for it”, there isn’t exactly a code to crack here.

To put it more bluntly, I don’t find your analysis objective or genuine—especially when it is that unoriginal.

Once again you have brought no counter arguments and instead of addressing the message you are shooting the messenger .

Perhaps instead of trying to twist what I said as I don't like or dislike Ovechkin address the argument.

If not then it's pretty clear how deep your analysis goes here.

But don't take my word for it just watch him the last 3 games.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

In what universe has Ovechkin scored more 50 goal seasons than anyone else? Maybe I’m wrong, but pretty sure Gretzky and Bossy have just as many

Just as many, but no one has more. Go on, continue to be pedantic about everything.

I’m not taking sides on this one, but I know several lose their minds about Matthews and goal scoring during those years as well and point to him only scoring 50 once before this season

I don't see an issue with anyone claiming that Matthews averages 50 goals per season, because he does, even though he's only surpassed that number twice (both times by a significant margin).

 

[glenngineer]

Your 74.5 games per season is flawed, because you're not taking into consideration that 3 of those seasons were shortened for everyone. I think we can leave the whole multiplication by 82 out for now and just do goals divided by games played. Ovechkin and Gretzky are almost equal with that number among players who played over 1000 games, and when you think about the generations they played in, Ovechkin imo is a greater goal scorer.

It’s not flawed in response to the post I’m questioning. Person said Ovie averaged 50 goals for his first 16 seasons. Take the amount of goals scored in his first 16 seasons and divide by 16, it’s not 50 or greater.

While you are correct, some of those were shortened, it doesn’t make the original statement true.

To your point of him being the better goal scorer, I’ll still take Bossy and his shooting percentage of 21% for his career over Ovie’s 13%. I’ll also take 99 and his 17.5% shooting percentage. Both of them made the players and team around them better.

 

[SuperScript29]

It’s not flawed in response to the post I’m questioning. Person said Ovie averaged 50 goals for his first 16 seasons. Take the amount of goals scored in his first 16 seasons and divide by 16, it’s not 50 or greater.

While you are correct, some of those were shortened, it doesn’t make the original statement true.

To your point of him being the better goal scorer, I’ll still take Bossy and his shooting percentage of 21% for his career over Ovie’s 13%. I’ll also take 99 and his 17.5% shooting percentage. Both of them made the players and team around them better.

Technically speaking, the only two scorers that stand out that played less than 1000 games are Lemieux and Bossy, but like Gretzky, they also did it in a high scoring era. Not to mention Ovie being able to sustain that average while playing over 1400 is very impressive. I think it's safe to say that Ovechkin should be looked at as the best goal scorer of all-time when it's all said and done.

 

[Toby91ca]

Just as many, but no one has more. Go on, continue to be pedantic about everything.

I don’t see it as minor. If you said no one in history has scored more 50 goal seasons than him…it would be accurate but also a bit misleading as most would take that as him doing something no one else has. Stating he’s scored more 50 goal seasons than anyone else is simply wrong.

 

[Planetov]

Once again you have brought no counter arguments and instead of addressing the message you are shooting the messenger .

The “argument” I addressed was your obviously deliberate word usage regarding Ovechkin’s ice time. The reason I responded to it the way I did (other than it being a worn out meme on this site) is because there it is nothing more than pure speculation to ice time being “gifted”, or Ovechkin being told to “just shoot and go for it.”

Here’s my blazing hot take regarding both points. And grab some ice packs, because this one is molten: maybe the face of the franchise for 19 seasons has earned his ice time, and that an aged Ovechkin needs adjusted deployment to be effective.

Perhaps instead of trying to twist what I said as I don't like or dislike Ovechkin address the argument.

I mean, you don’t, and that’s okay. Not all fans have to like all players.

If not then it's pretty clear how deep your analysis goes here.

There’s no analysis to be had. You used “gifted” and “just shoot and go for it” as your analysis. I’ll match those advanced-metric points with an equally nuanced “nuh-uh.”

But don't take my word for it just watch him the last 3 games.

I have. He’s been bad. I haven’t argued this point. Nor should I.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I know which one I would take in a game 7.

That's a clear Ovechkin

Kucherov is pointless in game 7s and a minus player he's not a good player in the clutch.

Kucherov did play Ovechkin in a game 7 once...
Ovechkin scored the game winner

 

[kp61c]

That's a clear Ovechkin

Kucherov is pointless in game 7s and a minus player he's not a good player in the clutch.

Kucherov did play Ovechkin in a game 7 once...
Ovechkin scored the game winner

kuch is + 37 in the playoffs. ovechking is just +3. Not close at all.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

kuch is + 37 in the playoffs. ovechking is just +3. Not close at all.

Doesn't change that Kucherov isn't a clutch player who got out played by Ovechkin when it mattered most