What Did You Expect from Lidstrom / Datsyuk / Z / Kronwall in Their 1st Seasons?

[snailderby]

I'm a relative newbie to hockey, compared to many of you. I don't remember when Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall entered the league. Would any of you old-timers be willing to share your memories of when players (or other secondary players like Filppula and Franzen) first entered the league?

1. What were your expectations for these players in their first season?

2. Did they have growing pains when they first entered the league? Were there certain flaws in their play? Were there concerns about their defense, their skating, or anything else?

3. At what point did you realize they were going to be something special?

Thanks in advance.

Click to read more...

 

[InjuredChoker]

can't say for lidström.


but for kronwall


1. What were your expectations for these players in their first season?

didn't really have any. saw him play at WCs the year prior he got his cup of coffe in NHL. was good but not great. after the lockout he really broke out.

2. Did they have growing pains when they first entered the league? Were there certain flaws in their play? Were there concerns about their defense, their skating, or anything else?

sure, kronwall had his brainfarts defensively. skating was fine and seemed injury prone earlier on. good thing he proved not to be.

3. At what point did you realize they were going to be something special?

not sure about special but around 06-07. played well in international comps and kept improving in NHL, though he had his ups and downs.


for zetterberg


1. What were your expectations for these players in their first season?

high. knew him from international comps and friend of mine praised him a lot. zetterberg delivered immediately.

2. Did they have growing pains when they first entered the league? Were there certain flaws in their play? Were there concerns about their defense, their skating, or anything else?

maybe skating and size but that's about it. he played very good defense from the beginning and was pretty complete player.

3. At what point did you realize they were going to be something special?

the year before he made the NHL/his rookie season.



datsyuk


1. What were your expectations for these players in their first season?

didn't really have any, didn't know much about him.

2. Did they have growing pains when they first entered the league? Were there certain flaws in their play? Were there concerns about their defense, their skating, or anything else?

he was weak on his skates and was average to medicore defensively. especially on his rookie season datsyuk line got pinned to their own zone pretty often. he improved steadily though, but didn't really develop the necessary strength and defensive game until 06-07

3. At what point did you realize they were going to be something special?

rookie season. didn't expect him to develop this complete player but that skating, creativity and hands were something else from the beginning.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm a relative newbie to hockey, compared to many of you. I don't remember when Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall entered the league. Would any of you old-timers be willing to share your memories of when players (or other secondary players like Filppula and Franzen) first entered the league?

1. What were your expectations for these players in their first season?

2. Did they have growing pains when they first entered the league? Were there certain flaws in their play? Were there concerns about their defense, their skating, or anything else?

3. At what point did you realize they were going to be something special?

Thanks in advance.

This could get lengthy bare with me but love the topic. Don't begrudge the countless skips this post is about to get, I know I am going to prattle on with these guys.

Lidstrom

1.) I was still very young or youngish when Lidstrom broke in. Prospect following was not a part of the norm and I doubt many die-hard fans had the ability to really know these guys. I will say this my family were season ticket holders and Lidstrom was the jersey I choose to beg my dad incessantly to replace my suddenly defunct Kocur jersey with.

Really a big moment there, I liked him in the pre-season and for the first month of the season. Was the first player I liked just because he was good at hockey, didn't score a ton of goals, didn't fight was just drawn to rooting for him for whatever reason. As a youngster I started saying outlandish things like after Yzerman he is our best player. Not really true at all at the time. But I was on train Lidstrom right away. I did think he was a star, but I was a kid. He is the first guy I remember really getting completely enamored with before he was a household name. Used to be a big thrill to walk into another fan donning a Lidstrom jersey at the JLA during his rookie season.

2.) Lidstrom was extremely good from the word go. He played in an era with more holding and goonery (not a real word but still using it ) and his slight frame gave him problems at time. Was a good decision maker and good skater right away. But he would get better, Lidstrom's progression was that he was a skilled offensive player and very adapt defensively, but he would get better seemingly every time out for the next five years. The next fifteen would basically be perfection at work. But the building blocks were always there, he just continued sharpening and making little progressions all the time. Very minimal growing pains aside from initial size issues that he was smart enough to overcome in almost all cases.

3.) By the end of his rookie year, well really for me a little earlier but again I was bought in as a young kid that would have rooted for and argued it before it was necessarily true... What I started to notice is by the end of his rookie season the other die-hard fans around us thought he was destined for big things. Now none of us had the vision that he might be the best European hockey player ever and the second best D-man ever...

Lidstrom and Fedorov (think he is really missing from this list) are what made me a die-hard hockey fan for life.

Datsyuk

1.) Good offensive player. By this time those that wanted to find out hockey prospect information could find it a little easier. He was coming off the World Championships there were grumbles about him being an offensive talent of substance. I thought he would show well, pop in 30 to 40 points and become a very good offensive player well below the likes of Yzerman and Fedorov but a very good offensive player.

2.) Datsyuk had flooring hands, beyond my wildest expectation. He also would try to beat guys like three times when he didn't need to. He rarely shot, but his vision of the ice was there offensively from the onset. He seemed really small and was dropped in the heart of the clutch and grab offense drying up era. He was mediocre defensively as hard as that is to believe. He had growing pains, he was a young player that deferred a lot, had limited ice time, but the tools were intriguing.

3.) 2003-2004, though the playoffs scared me, that is when I started to believe Pavel would be a star and not just an offensive star. He continued his development and was getting pretty good defensively. He had simplified his offensive game some and started to shoot the puck more. His strange skating stride also started to pay off as well as I think a little more speed was put in his game. It also became clear just how strong he had become so concerns about him getting muscled out dissipated. Had to wait through the lockout where he was impressive in Russia to find out for sure, but I was a buyer at that point.

Zetterberg

1.) Zetterberg was a celebrated guy. They spent the entire year saying he was the best player not in the NHL. He won the Swedish League MVP and was impressive in the World Championships also suiting up for the Olympics where we could all watch him play world wide. He was a big deal, really it is hard to remember back then and seems outlandish now but Zetterberg and Grigorenko had more hype than Datsyuk, a decent amount more. I expected him to come in and outperform Datsyuk's rookie year with 40 to 50 points, I even had dreams of more and hopefully win the Calder Trophy. Those expectations were admittedly a bit much, I also still to this day think he got screwed out of the Calder and should have won that over Jackman.

2.) Zetterberg didn't skate as well as I expected and though he was somehow very good at shielding the puck despite his frame he would get blasted off of it from time to time. He was a good passer, but at times made low percentage plays that were fairly stupid. He was good defensively, looked really solid out of the blocks, figured once he fully adapted and put on weight he would be one of the best wingers in the league assuming he could handle the rigors and would get his nose dirty enough...

3.) Lockout season. He followed a great year statistically where anything you would read about him was glowing with a very solid World Championships which really was a best on best tournament. Like Datsyuk it required some unknown buy-in because what if you were completely wrong, what if this was more just your heart than your brain. Still I thought both were coming back to be the engine at that point and hoped they would be the saving grace of the dire cap situation and prop Yzerman up for one last run as the 3rd or 4th seed in the West going deep.

Kronwall

1.) Kronwall developed at a time where you could know virtually everything about a player. He also was an absolute monster in the AHL during the lockout season. I expected a third pairing weapon elevating quickly to the second pairing with bone-crunching hits that could supply 40 points very quickly. You had trouble pinning down his ice time, it figured to be small, but maybe he would carve out something nice. Again expectations are usually too high for young players it would take into Kronwall's second year for him to reach what I bought into from his AHL season where he won the Eddie Shore Award.

2.) Kronwall had trouble diagnosing fairly simple downlow plays. He would get on the wrong side of guys hips and get manhandled at times. His penchant for roving was a complete roll of the dice where it seemed it was as likely to wind up in your net as it was the opponents. He timed his hits well but some of the guys were just too big. He also needed better stop and start work and had trouble in front of his own net. His shot which seemed so good at the AHL level and SHL by all reports was just okay or above average but not quite what I thought it needed to be. He also telegraphed his shot at times making him an easy block. He turned down the simple play or the D to D play a lot. The growing pains were real, he was talented but very much a work in process trying to find the consistency required to be a good Top 4 NHL player and the swift decision making offensively to live up to his gaudy AHL point totals.

3.) The back to back final runs. I started to not worry about the day he would be the #1. Kronwall is not the caliber of star the other players asked about were. But he is a #1 D-man in this league and has been for a while. He became a great PP player and his defensive recognition got better. His early injuries started to dissipate. His confidence went up and his timing on the big hit became a thing of beauty that conquered size differential. He became a very good shot blocker. The consistency of his game became the most impressive thing about him. Kronwall also became an excellent passer. His recognition and quick distribution of the puck really helped starting in those finals runs. He listened to his teacher well (Lidstrom) know the play and pass the puck it moves faster than you can skate it in most instances which was huge for Kronwall. He became a vocal leader, my favorite Wings player to hear from in post-games. While he was hard on himself, he espoused the expectation of excellence in November the same way he did in the spring and always owned his play in the same fashion the superstar Wings had.

 

[Claypool]

I remember an issue of the Hockey News for preseason predictions has Zetterberg winning the Calder. The hype was real.

 

[Risingwind]

Very interesting information here, especially

This could get lengthy <snip>

This post is great work.

Looking at it from that angle, there is basically no NHL ready player ever drafted. Every player in the league needed to reinvent themselves a couple times before making their mark. Hopefully one day in the future similar stories can be told about the current kids.

 

[Henkka]

I don't really remember. I started watching prospects maybe at 2007 or 2008 first time, so didn't have any clue.

Before that it was just, oh, a young player came and looked good. Couldn't expect kind of anything because there was no source to get good info. This board and Red Wings Central changed everything.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Didn't become a Wings fan till '92 so won't comment on Lidstrom.

Datsyuk was very under the radar. He basically turned up at camp in 2001, no-one knew anything about him, but very quickly players, coaches, media and then the fans started to notice the quiet Russian with the incredible hands. His rookie season he was a 4th liner on a star studded team, and though there were flashes of his talent, there was no way of knowing what he would become.

There are two moments that stand out for me that rookie season. At home to Vancouver, we were down 4-1 when Dats went on an end to end rush through their entire team to spark a comeback (5-4 OT win from Shanny IIRC). That was a real "sit up and take notice of this kid" moment. The other was on the road in Dallas, who still had a realgud team at that point. We were up 5-1 with less than a minute to when suddenly Datsyuk got a breakaway...........nowadays we all know "The Datysuk" move, he's done it in shootouts, other players have copied it, but its hard to overestimate the impact of that goal. It wasn't a "sit up and take notice" moment, it was a "HOLY ****!!! DID YOU JUST SEE THAT?????" moment.
Obviously he continued the next year with the 2 kids and a goat line, but the breakout year was when Babcock became coach. Was it a coincidence that Babs's arrival was when Datsyuk transformed into a 2-way beast...?

Zetterberg on the other hand arrived with a ton of hype. As someone above said, "best player not in NHL" was a label commonly applied, as was "younger, smaller, Peter Forsberg". And it was apparent very quickly the hype was justified. The Wings made sure to put his locker next to Yzerman as Z's leadership potential was quickly identified. And the Zetterberg-Datsuk-Hull line may not have been the best line in the NHL (that would have been Bertuzzi-Morrison-Naslund or Tanguay-Forsberg-Hedjuk), but it sure was the most fun to watch, an absolute treat. Barret frickin Kackman winning the Calder was an absolute joke.

Kronwall is an interesting one. There was certainly a lot of expectation on him. Nick Jr was the label commonly applied to him, and it wasn't because of his name. On the one hand, he was expected to come and take over from Lids, on the other, no one expected quite how long that would take. The early part of his career was constantly interrupted by a series of random injuries, then we he got over them, he was constantly stuck behind quality vets like Schneider, Markov and Rafalski, such that he ended up being a realgud #3, but many people (myself included) doubted that he was quite good enough to transition to a quality top pairing guy. I was wrong, all he needed was the opportunity. Unfortunately, that opportunity only came when all the other realgud defencemen had retired and he was surrounded by a paucity of talent.

 

[stu the grim reaper]

I'm a relative newbie to hockey, compared to many of you. I don't remember when Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall entered the league. Would any of you old-timers be willing to share your memories of when players (or other secondary players like Filppula and Franzen) first entered the league?

1. What were your expectations for these players in their first season?

2. Did they have growing pains when they first entered the league? Were there certain flaws in their play? Were there concerns about their defense, their skating, or anything else?

3. At what point did you realize they were going to be something special?

Thanks in advance.

listrom didnt make a big impression except that he immediately had a pro quality slap shot from the point on the power play. its hilarious to think back on. he was just a euro with a good shot.

I remember zetterbergs first point which was a very clever assist to brendan shanahan. for most of his first season i remember thinking "this young guy is amazing at getting chances and never scoring." I never thought he would have a 30 goal season. Im still amazed at him for that.

I also remember the first time i saw rookie kronwall casually take someone to the boards and finish his check. You could tell immediately that he hit way harder than his size.

Also remember when jiri fischer started to emerge and come into his own which is important to keep things in perspective

 

[Yemack]

Lidstrom. I was too young. wasn't even a hockey fan. he had good stats on EA nhl game. that was my first impression. so it was kinda no brainer to use him on my team. my appreciation for him grew from watching and in 2002, when he won Conn Smyth, he was just a dominant figure that controlled everything on ice.

Dats. First impression was that he was an incredible 1-1 player. Everyone knew he was good but didnt think he was going to have a career like this. He had a serious flaw in his game, mainly physical strength. He's come a long way.

Z. Mega hype on him before the season. Watching him in his first few games, it was pretty clear not only he had skills but understood the game very well. He had a clear star potential and there was never any doubt he was going to have a great career. heh that was time when I thought I was hockey nostradamus and made alot of predictions. I remember telling everyone that Z is going to be the ****.

Kronwall. He also had a pretty big hype. I thought there were some similarities between him and Lidstrom the way they see the game. Or maybe it was media telling me things. Back then, I actually believed a lot of what media wrote. However, Lidstrom executed every play flawlessly whereas Konner sometimes got careless on routine plays. I think that was part of the reason why he got injured so often early in his career. He was so injury prone that there was a huge question mark over him. Still it was clear he knew what the heck he was doing.

 

[RabidBadger]

I can only comment on Dats, but not on pre-NHL expectations. I was living in the scorched earth area known as Chicago in 2002 and would go see The Wings nearly everytime they came there. Even on that hall of fame laden team I remember watching a unknown Pavel and thinking he was incredibly creative/slick/elusive/awesome.

The next year I picked him with my #2 choice in a fantasy league I did with my buddies because I thought so highly of him. They looked at me like I was an ape and had no idea who he was. I can say that of all the games I've seen live there hasn't been a new, relatively unheralded player that has made that kind of impression on me.