What countries has best prospect development system for foreigners?

[Eye of Ra]

There was some debate about this in international section. I think this section is a better fit.


1; Canada and USA, pretty clear, no?

2; Russia, alot of Kazaks, Latvians, Belarussian players have come from the Russian development system.

3; Czechia. Alot of slovaks was in the Czech development system


Discuss and be serious!

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[Hockeyville USA]

Depends on where you want to put the line of demarcation for levels of a development system, considering it evolves at different ages in different countries, and may vary in different areas of a country.

Canada: minor hockey is the predominant route all the way up through u16 until your CHL/junior draft year. Sport school academies have become popular in Western Canada, the GTHL reigns supreme in Ontario. Not quite sure how it all breaks down in Quebec. Major junior in the CHL is great for talented 16 and 17 year olds, but can be redundant for 18 and 19 year olds who need to be challenged more and are held back due to the CHL-NHL Agreement, so thus they can't play in the A. Junior A in Canada is all over the place now with the BCHL going independent and the turmoil in the AJHL, so many top NCAA route Canadians leave the country to play in the USHL now.

US: Varies depending on where you're at in the country. Community based hockey & then high school reigns supreme in Minnesota, minor hockey to prep school is the typical route in Massachusetts & New England, minor hockey is the top route in Michigan. Prep school and high school hockey do exist in other parts of the country, but minor hockey is necessary everywhere else because the talent pool isn't deep like it is in Minnesota, thus the need for minor hockey organizations to group the best talent together.

After that, the NTDP is the junior all-star team for the best US NCAA route players, the USHL has gotten better & better as a junior league, but it's still hard for most non-NTDP players to get big minutes in the USHL in their 16 & 17 year old seasons, as the USHL is still used as a developmental parking spot league for NCAA programs to put their recruits in so they can stagger recruiting classes and then bring in guys as older players. And then the NCAA has become an even better 18-24 year old league, allowing top 18 and 19 year olds to play against older competition when they've outgrown junior, but it also allows later bloomers a longer development curve on the path to making it to pro.

 

[Blueston]

Sweden should be on 2nd tier. They tend to attract top kids from variety of European counties (Slovaks like Dvorsky, Norwegians like MBN, Czechs like Badinka, etc..) and almost none of their kids leave prior to being drafted. With Russian hockey somewhat isolated, Sweden seem to be top country in Europe at this point for developing top young players.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The easiest/most straight-forward is to go to Canada's Import Draft because many players have done it before, there are built-in opportunities, you don't have the school factor that you do with USHL/NCAA and you know you'll be facing off against future NHL players. Otherwise you can go to a nearby country (so Belarus/Kazakhstan -> Russia, although you'd probably just play for Minsk/Astana, Denmark/Norway -> Sweden) if you don't like your own country's junior leagues (generally Canadians, Americans, Russians, Swedes, Finns, Swiss and Germans can all stay home, Czechs and Slovaks can stay or go, and many go to Canada).

 

[Habsrule]

Going to the CHL through the import draft is by far the best way to get drafted.

Every CHL team have NHL drafted players. Their are scouts at every CHL game.

Scouts go to CHL games for two reasons. To scout players for the upcoming draft and to scout the players that their team drafted. All that it takes is to impress a scout when they are there to watch their own team’s prospect.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Sweden should be on 2nd tier. They tend to attract top kids from variety of European counties (Slovaks like Dvorsky, Norwegians like MBN, Czechs like Badinka, etc..) and almost none of their kids leave prior to being drafted. With Russian hockey somewhat isolated, Sweden seem to be top country in Europe at this point for developing top young players.

Yes, i agree that Sweden is 2nd tier but not 1st tier. Swedish prospect development system is way behind the prospect development system from Canada/USA/Czechia/Russia.

 

[Garl]

So, which NHLers were produced in those systems?

Sweden- Kopitar, Fiala, Pastrnak, Vrana, Boedker, Nielsen, Regin, Eller, Jaros, Kukan, Larsen
Finland-Slafkovsky and Fedotenko?
Russia-Ponikarovsky and ?

 

[WarriorofTime]

So, which NHLers were produced in those systems?

Sweden- Kopitar, Fiala, Pastrnak, Vrana, Boedker, Nielsen, Regin, Eller, Jaros, Kukan, Larsen
Finland-Slafkovsky and Fedotenko?
Russia-Ponikarovsky and ?

Why would any foreigner willingly play in the MHL/VHL/KHL with the goal being to reach the NHL? Doesn't make sense. There is no Transfer Agreement so it only delays when you'd come over and means you'll get scouted a lot less by an NHL team. You'd go play in the MHL with the goal of playing in the KHL, otherwise you'd probably pack your bags and head to the CHL, or even a lower North American junior league (I always see various random Latvians in leagues like NAHL trying to get U.S. D1 Scholarships). Outside of Belarus and a few from Kazakhstan (who mostly play on one team), there aren't really foreign players in the MHL. From my glance, there was one kid from Sweden that played in MHL this season, but he has a Russian name so he is likely a dual national to begin with. Everyone else is Russia/Belarus/Kazakhstan. Foreigners come to Russia when they are adults and have gone through the circuit already because it's a good opportunity to continue a pro hockey career at good pay, not to specifically develop and try and get drafted by NHL teams.

Anyways the whole "produced by system" is a bit.... masturbatory. David Pastrnak plays in Czechia his whole life, he goes to Södertälje when he's 16 and 17 and also plays a whole bunch of international games for Czechia (38 games total), then he gets drafted late 1st round and goes to the United States, starts in Providence and makes his way to Boston, and becomes a star, so now it was the "Swedish hockey system" that made him good and not anything else in his hockey path. Like OK? Good for them for sprinkling their magic "system" dust.

The main reason to leave home is an opportunity to play against better players and scouting exposure. It doesn't particularly matter where that occurs so much as the opportunity for something like that to occur, hence why good NHL players come from all over.

 

[kudla]

147. French Guiana
148. Barbados
149. Nigeria
150. Sweden

 

[Eye of Ra]

Why would any foreigner willingly play in the MHL/VHL/KHL with the goal being to reach the NHL? Doesn't make sense. There is no Transfer Agreement so it only delays when you'd come over and means you'll get scouted a lot less by an NHL team. You'd go play in the MHL with the goal of playing in the KHL, otherwise you'd probably pack your bags and head to the CHL, or even a lower North American junior league (I always see various random Latvians in leagues like NAHL trying to get U.S. D1 Scholarships). Outside of Belarus and a few from Kazakhstan (who mostly play on one team), there aren't really foreign players in the MHL. From my glance, there was one kid from Sweden that played in MHL this season, but he has a Russian name so he is likely a dual national to begin with. Everyone else is Russia/Belarus/Kazakhstan. Foreigners come to Russia when they are adults and have gone through the circuit already because it's a good opportunity to continue a pro hockey career at good pay, not to specifically develop and try and get drafted by NHL teams.

Anyways the whole "produced by system" is a bit.... masturbatory. David Pastrnak plays in Czechia his whole life, he goes to Södertälje when he's 16 and 17 and also plays a whole bunch of international games for Czechia (38 games total), then he gets drafted late 1st round and goes to the United States, starts in Providence and makes his way to Boston, and becomes a star, so now it was the "Swedish hockey system" that made him good and not anything else in his hockey path. Like OK? Good for them for sprinkling their magic "system" dust.

The main reason to leave home is an opportunity to play against better players and scouting exposure. It doesn't particularly matter where that occurs so much as the opportunity for something like that to occur, hence why good NHL players come from all over.

I agree but why is this just about Sweden? You think for exemple Slafkovsky was produced by Finland System?

 

[WarriorofTime]

I agree but why is this just about Sweden? You think for exemple Slafkovsky was produced by Finland System?

It's not unique to Sweden imo. Pastrnak was just an example that came to mind.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Russia-Ponikarovsky and ?

There is 30+ good kazaks, latvians, belarussian who went throw the russian system.

147. French Guiana
148. Barbados
149. Nigeria
150. Sweden

This is getting tiredsome, i never said Sweden is this bad. I just said we are not top 8. I have us 9th or 10th.

 

[majormajor]

For most prospects Russia isn't an option for political and cultural reasons.

And getting KHL ice time for prospects is a problem.

But beyond that I think it's underrated for development for wingers. We see so many Russian wingers develop their skills remarkably well from the time of the draft until a few years later when they come over. They put a lot more focus on skill development than on game time and it works. I think it's a superior model in that regard.

 

[Garl]

There is 30+ good kazaks, latvians, belarussian who went throw the russian system.

There is 30+ good kazaks, latvians, belarussian who went throw the russian system.


This is getting tiredsome, i never said Sweden is this bad. I just said we are not top 8. I have us 9th or 10th.

30+ in the NHL? Where?

 

[Eye of Ra]

30+ in the NHL? Where?

Not just now but also historically. Dont forget ukrainians and lituhanians such as Zubrus and Kasparaitis.

 

[Garl]

Not just now but also historically. Dont forget ukrainians and lituhanians such as Zubrus and Kasparaitis.

Kasparaitis played for Russia and Zubrus was developed in Ukraine, not to mention it was in the 90s

So you stop moving the goalposts, lets say since 2000, who did Russia help develop. I can at best remember Daugavins, Kulda and Bartulis. Thats it.

 

[pgfan66]

Sweden is easily #2 behind North America and Finland deserves to be in there somewhere too. For the top and second-tier prospects (as in the ones who are very good but not quite good enough to play pro at home) in Czechia, Slovakia, Germany and some of the smaller countries like Latvia, it's North America or Sweden, and for good reason.

 

[Albatros]

Austria is in the mix already for the Red Bull Hockey Academy and at a lower pro level Okanagan Europe.

 

[Garl]

Why would any foreigner willingly play in the MHL/VHL/KHL with the goal being to reach the NHL? Doesn't make sense. There is no Transfer Agreement so it only delays when you'd come over and means you'll get scouted a lot less by an NHL team. You'd go play in the MHL with the goal of playing in the KHL, otherwise you'd probably pack your bags and head to the CHL, or even a lower North American junior league (I always see various random Latvians in leagues like NAHL trying to get U.S. D1 Scholarships). Outside of Belarus and a few from Kazakhstan (who mostly play on one team), there aren't really foreign players in the MHL. From my glance, there was one kid from Sweden that played in MHL this season, but he has a Russian name so he is likely a dual national to begin with. Everyone else is Russia/Belarus/Kazakhstan. Foreigners come to Russia when they are adults and have gone through the circuit already because it's a good opportunity to continue a pro hockey career at good pay, not to specifically develop and try and get drafted by NHL teams.

Anyways the whole "produced by system" is a bit.... masturbatory. David Pastrnak plays in Czechia his whole life, he goes to Södertälje when he's 16 and 17 and also plays a whole bunch of international games for Czechia (38 games total), then he gets drafted late 1st round and goes to the United States, starts in Providence and makes his way to Boston, and becomes a star, so now it was the "Swedish hockey system" that made him good and not anything else in his hockey path. Like OK? Good for them for sprinkling their magic "system" dust.

The main reason to leave home is an opportunity to play against better players and scouting exposure. It doesn't particularly matter where that occurs so much as the opportunity for something like that to occur, hence why good NHL players come from all over.

Why would a foreigner go to Russia? Because Russia is a top hockey country, so why not, at least before 2022. Belarussians, Ukrainians, Latvians, Kazakhstani players went to Russia. Russian language is a big bonus too

Nobody makes you sign a contract there.

Regarding Pastrnak, yes, he is a product of swedish development system. If not, and the criteria is so that a player should be playing basically his entire teenage years to qualify your criteria, then, the thread is meaningless and there are no euros developed in CHL for example with rare exceptions like Namestnikov.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Kasparaitis played for Russia and Zubrus was developed in Ukraine, not to mention it was in the 90s

So you stop moving the goalposts, lets say since 2000, who did Russia help develop. I can at best remember Daugavins, Kulda and Bartulis. Thats it.

There is many more. Keep searching. Your hate for everything russian is well known. Nobody in their right mind thinks Sweden have better prospect development system than Russia.

Sweden is easily #2 behind North America and Finland deserves to be in there somewhere too. For the top and second-tier prospects (as in the ones who are very good but not quite good enough to play pro at home) in Czechia, Slovakia, Germany and some of the smaller countries like Latvia, it's North America or Sweden, and for good reason.

Sweden is not ahead of Russia and Czechia.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Austria is in the mix already for the Red Bull Hockey Academy and at a lower pro level Okanagan Europe.

How come Red Bull Munich dont have as good prospect system as Salzburg.

 

[pgfan66]

How come Red Bull Munich dont have as good prospect system as Salzburg.

Salzburg is Munich’s prospect system.

 

[Albatros]

Salzburg is some 90 minutes away from Munich by car or train so it wouldn't make sense to build state-of-the-art academies in both places. In Salzburg they also have the soccer academy sharing the facilities, whereas the German RB soccer team is in more distant Leipzig.

 

[pgfan66]

Salzburg is some 90 minutes away from Munich by car or train so it wouldn't make sense to build state-of-the-art academies in both places. In Salzburg they also have the soccer academy sharing the facilities, whereas the German RB soccer team is in more distant Leipzig.

That being said, things will change with the new SAP Garden bringing new opportunities for junior hockey in Germany. Basically Red Bull is replacing the EHC Munich with their new junior program.

 

[Vikz]

The whole reason of this post is to provide a list of development programs and leave Sweden out, right?