What could we get?

[MJF]

I think you missed a zero. Otherwise those are numbers for a Bridgeport Baby Isles game on a snowy weeknight.

Oopsie. This is what happens when you tyoe faster than your iPhone inputs things.

 

[redbull]

For the pending UFAs, I don't think the return will be anything significant. Could Martin/CC maybe return a 2nd rounder? wishful thinking but stranger things have happened - just not to LouLamo!

Final year:
Martin 1.5-UFA
Clutterbuck 1.75-UFA
Aho .85 - UFA

I don't think many teams who'd be buyers at the deadline would pull the trigger on any of these guys, given the amount of money/cap remaining. Need a deeper dive in opposing caps closer to the deadline to investigate more.

Term remaining - tougher sell
Pageau $4MM cap, $4.5/4/3.5 next three)
Palmieri $5MM this year and next, sal & cap)
Lee ($5.8, 4.5 next two years - cap hit $7MM)

Taking a look at how strong the goalies and defensive core are, this isn't a burn it to the ground situation. Not even close.

They only need some reliable offense. You'd think one of Barzal/Horvat can be that guy! That's $17MM cap hit for little production. And adding Lee/Palmieri $12MM - we're at $30MM for four fwds who don't produce anywhere close. Nelson prob the only forward who's producing at/above the cap hit.

Lou has to find a team who sees more in a guy like Barzal than his numbers, someone who thinks they can get the rookie production with a change of scenery. I don't think Horvat/Lee/Palmieri can fetch anything and if they can't be replaced by Wahlstrom/Holmstrom/Iskhakov (not likely) then there's trouble ahead. Especially since Nelson will get a raise, and they need to sign Dobson.

I'd continue to work on system and team chemistry, maybe tweak a bit with Barzal/Nelson type trades. The other option to deal a Dobson-type for a similar high-scoring forward (like a Zegras-type who may have fallen out of favour) - those trades are tough.

Curious what Lou does, because he's a patient PATIENT man.

 

[MarsTBOW]

And many fans here will finally be content.

Yes, Content to just "Have To Be Right!" Ir-regardless of the term of Time it will take to turn it around and the pain and suffering they will sustain.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Looks like such fun to be the Sharks.

The Sharks are in an awful position because they made the same mistakes we're currently making.

 

[Sparksrus3]

You're laying it on extra thick here.

5,000 fans a game is when the Islanders had bottomed out in the bad old days, during one failed ownership after another. Do you really think if the Islanders announced a rebuild this summer, that their attendance would drop from a 14,000 average to a 5,000 average overnight?

if our team stinks the fans will stay home . It’s big bucks to go to these games . For me it’s a family thing and it’s 3-5 hunge all in each time . I cant get the tickets last minute the event is planned each time and bought well in advance .
My couch is comfortable and the wifey makes a great cacciatore . Just my take .

LGI

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

For the pending UFAs, I don't think the return will be anything significant. Could Martin/CC maybe return a 2nd rounder? wishful thinking but stranger things have happened - just not to LouLamo!

Final year:
Martin 1.5-UFA
Clutterbuck 1.75-UFA
Aho .85 - UFA

I don't think many teams who'd be buyers at the deadline would pull the trigger on any of these guys, given the amount of money/cap remaining. Need a deeper dive in opposing caps closer to the deadline to investigate more.

Term remaining - tougher sell
Pageau $4MM cap, $4.5/4/3.5 next three)
Palmieri $5MM this year and next, sal & cap)
Lee ($5.8, 4.5 next two years - cap hit $7MM)

I'd guess Martin and Clutterbuck would receive interest as rentals from teams looking for depth with playoff experience. Their cap hit will be negligible at the deadline.

Lee, Pageau, and Palmieri all have some degree of NTC protection, which is more of an inhibitor than their market value.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

You're laying it on extra thick here.

5,000 fans a game is when the Islanders had bottomed out in the bad old days, during one failed ownership after another. Do you really think if the Islanders announced a rebuild this summer, that their attendance would drop from a 14,000 average to a 5,000 average overnight?

Not overnight but yes, it would certainly happen. This fanbase is passionate but small. 2-3 losing seasons in a row and we'll be seeing dreadful attendance.

 

[MJF]

Not overnight but yes, it would certainly happen. This fanbase is passionate but small. 2-3 losing seasons in a row and we'll be seeing dreadful attendance.

Due to the number of sponsor owned seats we have I don't think things will ever get as bad as they were in the bad old days. The way the Islanders do business now versus in the late 1990s isn't comparable.

But attendance has dropped in the 2 full seasons at UBS and we're off by another 1,000 this year with Lou pushing hopes and dreams again. So maybe the current course we're on isn't working with season ticket sales either.

 

[leeroggy]

Due to the number of sponsor owned seats we have I don't think things will ever get as bad as they were in the bad old days. The way the Islanders do business now versus in the late 1990s isn't comparable.

But attendance has dropped in the 2 full seasons at UBS and we're off by another 1,000 this year with Lou pushing hopes and dreams again. So maybe the current course we're on isn't working with season ticket sales either.

Or maybe the cost is too high to attend casually now that the early newness rubbed off
I can park for free at the Panthers Arena for a short walk from the Sawgrass Mall, while it looks like Parking STARTS at $30 online and goes into triple digits. That's absurd.
What's food like now?

 

[MJF]

Or maybe the cost is too high to attend casually now that the early newness rubbed off
I can park for free at the Panthers Arena for a short walk from the Sawgrass Mall, while it looks like Parking STARTS at $30 online and goes into triple digits. That's absurd.
What's food like now?

If the associated costs of an Isles game are too expensive then you damn well better not put a mediocre team on the ice.

 

[leeroggy]

If the associated costs of an Isles game are too expensive then you damn well better not put a mediocre team on the ice.

I think you are conflating two different things. I don't see a lack of season ticket sales for the Jets and Giants.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

If the associated costs of an Isles game are too expensive then you damn well better not put a mediocre team on the ice.

I think that's what we're getting at. A rebuild would make the on-ice product even worse than mediocre. Then what? Reduce ticket prices?

I think you are conflating two different things. I don't see a lack of season ticket sales for the Jets and Giants.

MUCH bigger fan bases. And only 8 games a year...

 

[MJF]

I think that's what we're getting at. A rebuild would make the on-ice product even worse than mediocre. Then what? Reduce ticket prices?

Or keep going like we’re going, throwing patchwork repairs at a team with too many holes and lose the fans anyway?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Or keep going like we’re going, throwing patchwork repairs at a team with too many holes and lose the fans anyway?

So no matter what happens, I guess we're losing the fans.

 

[MJF]

So no matter what happens, I guess we're losing the fans.

There's no way to do this without losing fans.

You know how Islanders fans look for the first reason not to buy tickets. So you might as well fix it right rather than dancing on the fringes of being competitive in order to keep some additional seats filled. If that's actually what's going on with the Islanders now.

 

[redbull]

So no matter what happens, I guess we're losing the fans.

it's game-theory-ish type problem. If too many teams try and tank, given the lottery, there's less and less chance of getting an elite player (top 1-2). There's so much parity, it's usually not in your best interest to tank, relatively speaking.

Ultimately, outside the top 1-3 players, any team's ability to get better is strictly a function of drafting (outside top of the 1st round) and developing cost-effective/cap-friendly players from within.

The toughest position to fill is in goal, especially via draft since development time takes so long. Elite dmen are also very rare and valuable. Lastly, elite offensive players but you don't need that many, if you get ones that make others better, improve PP, etc.

The Islanders are lucky having Sorokin and I think Dobson could be a special dman for a long time. I like the core of Pulock/Mayfield/Pelech/Romanov - maybe an area of strength for a trade?

It's too good to aim for a complete rebuild. There are some good contracts in there, few really bad/unmovable contracts.

It's the top-end fwd that needs some upgrading and is usually pretty easy to do. They've been somewhat unlucky with Barzal's declining production, inability to elevate linemates. Horvat is solid but unspectacular, and they've not been able to add through the draft (Wahlstrom/Holmstrom/Beauvillier- everyone in between). Not since Nelson have they drafted a good forward.

Lou (or whomever the aggressive forward-thinking GM is?) can see this as an opportunity to tweak. For example, would you call Treliving and think through a Nylander-Dobson type move?

Are their teams that covet Barzal, think they can get more from him, either for a younger forward (say a Wyatt Johnson or Ty Dellandrea).

Also, Lee is looking terrible these days, can't believe how much/how fast he's declined.

 

[Throttle]

It’s not an area of strength, if one goes down, the rest of the d can’t sustain the d. Gotta beef up the depth to make it an area of strength.

 

[lazycop]

If rebuild/retool, the only players to keep around are Sorokin and Dobson.

This^

This team, as constituted, is not built to go far in the playoffs, assuming they even make the playoffs. I would DEFINETLY dangle Barzal out there, to see what offers we could get. I'd try to hold onto Nelson if possible.
At the very least, see if you can dump Lee without it costing too much(yea right).

 

[Osakahaus]

They're going to need speed to fix this team. I want them to get faster anyways. Martin, Clutterbuck, Lee, and even Pageau should all be on the table at some point. If we wanna keep up with the Rangers, Devils, Canes and even the Penguins, we gotta get faster.

 

[doublechili]

Lee has a NTC now. Starting 7/1/24 that changes to a 15 team no trade list, so at that point it would be possible to deal him to 17 teams. In the meantime, I wouldn't waste too many brain cells pondering Lee trades until the NTC changes, and realistically probably not even then.

 

[WangMustGo]

Lee has a NTC now. Starting 7/1/24 that changes to a 15 team no trade list, so at that point it would be possible to deal him to 17 teams. In the meantime, I wouldn't waste too many brain cells pondering Lee trades until the NTC changes, and realistically probably not even then.

Noone would take him unless there was a 1st+ attached to him.

 

[doublechili]

Noone would take him unless there was a 1st+ attached to him.

I'll bet CGY would take Lee even up for Huberdeau, and maybe throw in a pick!

But seriously, Lee can just say "no" until next July so not sure it's even a discussion point right now.

 

[redbull]

They're going to need speed to fix this team. I want them to get faster anyways. Martin, Clutterbuck, Lee, and even Pageau should all be on the table at some point. If we wanna keep up with the Rangers, Devils, Canes and even the Penguins, we gotta get faster.

I'm not sure about speed. The Islanders are best when they are hard to play against. They have some big defensemen, they block shots - you're never going to be defined by your bottom six forwards. If you want speed, it needs to be coupled with high-end skill (especially because speed usually also means small).

Horvat-Barzal-Lee-Nelson-Palmieri-Holmstrom/Wahlstrom - if these are the top six forwards (arguable) the only SPEED guy is Barzal.

I like the change-of-scenery idea and getting faster/more skilled up-front, but when you try to attach specific names, it gets near-impossible to fill (the cost to acquire, cap space, etc.)

I have the best idea: They all need to play better.
Barzal needs to be the elite player he CAN be (like Huberdeau)
Horvat needs to get back in the lineup and score
Palmieri needs to play better, more consistent
Wahlstrom/Holmstrom - maybe one could elevate their play/consistency?

I'll just say this. Thank God they have Sorokin.

 

[Bood12]

Little or nothing, and it is pointless to bring up those guys, we have to go with the big guys if we want to have any glimmer of hope in the next decade, what can we get for Sorokin, Barzal and essentially anyone else of value, Dobson we can keep if he is on for a re-build.

 

[Bood12]

the only players to keep around are Sorokin and Dobson.

Sorokin is 28, by the time this team is competive again after a much needed re-tool or re- build he will be in his early-mid 30s, absolutely pointless to keep him when he will probably get the best return