What CBJ players would you not trade for McDavid?

[JacketsFanWest]

A trade for McDavid might be similar to the Lindros trade, and probably would ultimately be more beneficial to the Oilers than the team getting McDavid just because of what that team would need to give up. One major injury and McDavid is gone and the Oilers could completely overhaul their team.

If you replicated the Lindros trade with McDavid, it would require giving up the best prospect, an NHL quality goalie, a top 4 defenseman, a serviceable NHL defenseman, a top 6 forward and multiple draft picks. The Jackets couldn't do that and still win.

A trade for McDavid would be win-now situation, so you couldn't give up the core.

So, I would keep: Johansen, Foligno, Dubinsky, Hartnell, Jenner, Atkinson, Murray, Savard, Johnson, Tyutin and Bob.

Of the prospects, they need to keep at least 3 of: Wennberg, Dano, Rychel and Milano.

That's 3 solid lines and 4 solid defensemen.

But all the Jackets could offer for McDavid would be players that are replaceable:
Anisimov, Boll, Morin, Tropp, Connauton and Prout, maybe Milano and toss in a few other prospects like Zaar, Anderson and Dansk. The Oilers would never do it.


A more legit offer for McDavid might be:

Murray, Johnson, Anisimov, Milano, Dansk, 8th overall in 2015, CBJ 1st round pick 2016

I don't like Johnson and think he's replaceable. The question with Murray is if he'll ever be healthy enough. If he's never the same after injuries, then maybe it's could be worth it to trade him. But I'd rather take the chance of Murray living up to his potential than gambling so much for one prospect.

 

[Doggy]

This reminds me of the thread "what would you give up for Sidney Crosby?". Any team would have to be insane to give up what Edmonton would want for the #1 pick and Edmonton would have to be insane to accept whatever any team would be willing to offer.

I will say this...it is amazing when you consider the amount of top end talent entering the league these days and the amount of very good talent in each draft.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

This is just now beyond idiotic.

We're already predicting a PPG pace for this kid? Totally unfair to the wee lil tyke. I'm not sure where his career will take him, but I will say that we are entered the realm of insane.

Really? A point per game out of the realm? Totally insane? I know that you know everything, but perhaps you can pry your mind open to consider this:

"He's as good as I've seen in the last 30 years, the best player to come into the League in the last 30 years, the best to come along since [Mario] Lemieux and [Sidney] Crosby," Gretzky said. "He can definitely change a franchise's fortunes.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=39152

A point per game projection is quite reasonable given this endorsement. The guy knows a little bit about young, high end talent. LOL

We've gone well past insane.

How about we see him in an NHL game first before before we start retiring his number league-wide like he's Wayne Gretzky.

It's all a theoretical argument any way. He's not being traded.

Nonetheless, I wonder how many on this board have actually seen him play. I went up to Erie for a weekend in February and watched him play 2 games against 2 good teams-London and the Soo. There were 7 first round picks or projected first round picks in those game. Mcdavid (projected #1), Dylan Strome (projected top 5 this year), Darnell Nurse (#7 overall 2013 Edmonton), Jared McCann (#24 overall 2014), Anthony DeAngelo (#19 overall 2014), Max Domi (#12 overall 2013), and Mitch Marner (projected top 5 this year).

The only one who looked like he could hang (at all) with McDavid was Nurse. Nurse is also 20 years old and was drafted #7 overall two years ago. He'd probably be a #3 choice this year if he were eligible for drafting. McDavid has amazing acceleration in his skating. His passing skills are other wordly; so quick and accurate. In fact, his teammates weren't skilled enough to convert them to goals on several occasions during the two games. The kid is already something special. It's a no brainer that he will be a top NHL player barring injury or getting drafted by an incompetent organization

As I said, Edmonton isn't going to trade McDavid. However, the notion that he's not going to be a PPGer in the the NHL is silly.

 

[KlichkoBro*]

McDavid could outscore Johansen next year. For a player like McDavid you can take all your well learned "wait til he's proven" and throw it in the trash.

A better question: Is there a single player in the NHL who wouldn't be traded 1 for 1 for McDavid?

CONNOR MCDAVID 14 games, 15 points at the WJC-20
GUESS WHO ------ 14 games, 14 points at the WJC-20

CONNOR MCDAVID 166 games, 285 points in the CHL
GUESS WHO ------ 137 games, 281 points in the CHL

 

[OldGoaltender]

CONNOR MCDAVID 14 games, 15 points at the WJC-20
GUESS WHO ------ 14 games, 14 points at the WJC-20

CONNOR MCDAVID 166 games, 285 points in the CHL
GUESS WHO ------ 137 games, 281 points in the CHL

I'll give it a go, Sidney Crosby.

 

[KlichkoBro*]

I'll give it a go, Sidney Crosby.

Alexandre Daigle.
I found his picture in this thread after I made my post.

"He's as good as I've seen in the last 30 years, the best player to come into the League in the last 30 years, the best to come along since [Mario] Lemieux and [Sidney] Crosby," Gretzky said. "He can definitely change a franchise's fortunes.

Gretzky was great at playing but I don't get the sense he is as good at evaluating talent himself. Just look at his coaching and managing history.

 

[major major]

By itself, racking up points in junior - especially in the Q - doesn't really prove much. It takes actual scouting. And what the scouts are saying about McDavid is that he is the total package and there aren't concerns about how his game translates to the NHL.

I understand the usual concerns about not putting too much value on prospects. But McDavid could have played in the NHL last year as a top liner on a lot of clubs. It's not like we have to make a projection on how he'll mature into next year and hope he'll mature into being good enough. He's already that good. You still have to ask how he'll adjust to different environments and how he'll continue to mature. But when a player is already good enough to center a top line, a lot of the normal uncertainty is gone.

 

[alphafox]

Would trade any single player for Mcdavid. He is lightyears better than anyone on our roster except Bob and Joey.

 

[Nordique]

Nonetheless, I wonder how many on this board have actually seen him play. I went up to Erie for a weekend in February and watched him play 2 games against 2 good teams-London and the Soo. There were 7 first round picks or projected first round picks in those game. Mcdavid (projected #1), Dylan Strome (projected top 5 this year), Darnell Nurse (#7 overall 2013 Edmonton), Jared McCann (#24 overall 2014), Anthony DeAngelo (#19 overall 2014), Max Domi (#12 overall 2013), and Mitch Marner (projected top 5 this year).

The only one who looked like he could hang (at all) with McDavid was Nurse. Nurse is also 20 years old and was drafted #7 overall two years ago. He'd probably be a #3 choice this year if he were eligible for drafting. McDavid has amazing acceleration in his skating. His passing skills are other wordly; so quick and accurate. In fact, his teammates weren't skilled enough to convert them to goals on several occasions during the two games. The kid is already something special. It's a no brainer that he will be a top NHL player barring injury or getting drafted by an incompetent organization

As I said, Edmonton isn't going to trade McDavid. However, the notion that he's not going to be a PPGer in the the NHL is silly.

You are right, most haven't seen him play, myself included. Here is the problem with CHL and College Hockey performance and stats.

CHL Scoring Leaders from the past 10 years:

Strome
C Brown
Leipsic
Shinnimin
Vey
Kozun
Riendeau
Azevedo
Kane
Radulov

Kane is the only NHL PPG player in the group.

Now lets look at College Hockey, top scorer for the last 10 years:

Eichel
Gaudreau
Schwartz
Abbot
Miele
Nyquist
Leitch
Gerbe
Hesik
Potulny


Even at a later age, NCAA hockey is not a great predictor of NHL success.

 

[Sdrawkcab321]

I would trade away any 3 players. He's gonna be that good.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I would trade away any 3 players. He's gonna be that good.

Bobrovsky, McElhinney (after we re-sign him), Forsberg. Oh look, we literally have no goalies. Dumb.

 

[CBJx614]

Bobrovsky, McElhinney (after we re-sign him), Forsberg. Oh look, we literally have no goalies. Dumb.

If thats all it took, id do it. Sign a UFA or trade the 8th for a goalie. 9th overall in a far less deep draft was good enough fot Schneider. Maybe we could get Lack from Vancouver.

 

[major major]

You are right, most haven't seen him play, myself included. Here is the problem with CHL and College Hockey performance and stats.

CHL Scoring Leaders from the past 10 years:

Strome
C Brown
Leipsic
Shinnimin
Vey
Kozun
Riendeau
Azevedo
Kane
Radulov

Kane is the only NHL PPG player in the group.

Now lets look at College Hockey, top scorer for the last 10 years:

Eichel
Gaudreau
Schwartz
Abbot
Miele
Nyquist
Leitch
Gerbe
Hesik
Potulny


Even at a later age, NCAA hockey is not a great predictor of NHL success.

It doesn't look like you read the post you're quoting. The poster's assessment is based on watching him play, and noting the fact that opposing players aren't going to be able to keep up with him. I don't see anyone coming on here to argue that McDavid is going to be a gem because of his amazing scoring numbers.

But that case can be made. It looks like your list of players is for top NCAA scorer and top CHL scorer, at any age. The top scorers are often 20 year olds, after the top-end talent has left for the NHL at 18. It would be more appropriate to look for the top scoring 18 year old in the CHL each year, and only keep the ones who score at a 2.5 ppg clip or higher. That's McDavid's proper comparison group. In our generation the only other players in that group are Crosby and Kane.

In any case, as I've said before, the case for McDavid rests on scouting, not stats.

 

[Nordique]

It doesn't look like you read the post you're quoting. The poster's assessment is based on watching him play, and noting the fact that opposing players aren't going to be able to keep up with him. I don't see anyone coming on here to argue that McDavid is going to be a gem because of his amazing scoring numbers.

I'll clarify my point. He can dominate the youth game, but does that translate into the professional game? I'm trying to illustrate that over the last 10 years, players that have dominated at the youth level (leading scorers from the last 10 years), haven't been sure bets in the NHL.

 

[Jackets Fan]

Definitely not Bobrovsky. You don't just find elite goalies just hanging off trees.
The Jackets don't need McDavid one bit. Would it be nice to have him? Of course, but the difference between he and Johansen won't be that great. Joey has PPG potential, if not perennial 75-80 point player at the very least.

The price for Mcdavid is too high for any team to pay.

Would you honestly trade Jenner+Foligno+Murray+Johansen+2 1st rounders? That's what it would take to get him.

 

[WannabeFinn]

Definitely not Bobrovsky. You don't just find elite goalies just hanging off trees.
The Jackets don't need McDavid one bit. Would it be nice to have him? Of course, but the difference between he and Johansen won't be that great. Joey has PPG potential, if not perennial 75-80 point player at the very least.

The price for Mcdavid is too high for any team to pay.

Would you honestly trade Jenner+Foligno+Murray+Johansen+2 1st rounders? That's what it would take to get him.

Okay, let's cool it a bit. I still think for an unproven NHL prospect it's teetering on the brink of insane to offer Johansen+Murray+Jenner for him. Those players are all 22 years old or younger, cost controlled RFAs, and in that group you have an established 1C, a future 1D, and a David Backes-esque forward with captaincy written on his forehead.

Anyways, I wouldn't make that trade. That's his value, but I wouldn't trade those 3 young guys for him.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

McDavid is leading the OHL in playoff scoring by 11 points.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/show/type/top_scorers/ls_season/52

He has scored 36 points in 13 games. His closest teammate has 17 points over this span. In percentage terms he has 212% of the points of his nearest teammate. That is ridiculous.

He has 30 points in his last 9 playoff games. That's 3.33 PPG. That is just absurd.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/roster/gameByGame/id/9904

McDavid's Erie Otters lead the Soo Greyhounds 3 games to 1 in the Conference Finals. The other Conference features North Bay vs. Oshawa. North Bay has scored 47 goals in 13 games and Oshawa has scored 48 goals in 14 games. In his last 9 games, McDavid's scoring pace is .09 PPG less than that of which the entire Oshawa team has scored during the course of the entire playoffs. That's a science fiction stat.

The comparisons to draft bust Alexander Daigle are absurd. As good as Ryan Johansen is, he's going to look like a standard third liner compared to McDavid. The kid is that good.

 

[Cash for Nash]

An, interesting thread on the mains: What CBJ players would you not trade for McDavid?

I'm curious what fans here say.

I can only name 4:

Johansen
Foligno
Dubinsky
Bobrovsky

Any of them. But not all of them....

 

[Nordique]

McDavid is leading the OHL in playoff scoring by 11 points.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/show/type/top_scorers/ls_season/52

He has scored 36 points in 13 games. His closest teammate has 17 points over this span. In percentage terms he has 212% of the points of his nearest teammate. That is ridiculous.

He has 30 points in his last 9 playoff games. That's 3.33 PPG. That is just absurd.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/roster/gameByGame/id/9904

McDavid's Erie Otters lead the Soo Greyhounds 3 games to 1 in the Conference Finals. The other Conference features North Bay vs. Oshawa. North Bay has scored 47 goals in 13 games and Oshawa has scored 48 goals in 14 games. In his last 9 games, McDavid's scoring pace is .09 PPG less than that of which the entire Oshawa team has scored during the course of the entire playoffs. That's a science fiction stat.

The comparisons to draft bust Alexander Daigle are absurd. As good as Ryan Johansen is, he's going to look like a standard third liner compared to McDavid. The kid is that good.

Not going to lie, that's very impressive. I still will have my reservations until I see him on the ice with NHL speed, defense, and netminding. How is he going to handle a guy like Dubinsky or Cortourier hounding him up and down the ice?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Not going to lie, that's very impressive. I still will have my reservations until I see him on the ice with NHL speed, defense, and netminding. How is he going to handle a guy like Dubinsky or Cortourier hounding him up and down the ice?

When he decides to go, Dubi will be looking at his backside.

Not trying to be dismissive of #17, but if the league doesn't completely suspend the rule book, "shadowing" McDavid is going to be a pretty futile exercise, imo. The kid is so fast and his acceleration is so profound that very few players will have a fair chance to effectively shut him down all by themselves.

That being said, he certainly isn't going average 3.3 PPG during any 9 game stretch.

Watching defenses trying to handle McDavid and Taylor Hall could be comical at times. Having two speedsters of that type on the same line is going to be very, very difficult to counteract. Nail Yakupov is also a very good skater and it's very possible that he might experience a seismic leap in his productivity overnight if paired with these two.

Edmonton really did win the Lottery in every sense of the word when they got the #1 pick this season.

 

[CBJSlash]

Can't wait to see Dubi plaster him to the wall three times on a shift.