Speculation: What are your expectations for this coming season?

BrunoPuntzJones

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Apr 17, 2012
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I also don't really like how people are writing off Zatkoff as a temporary replacement for Vokoun (who I hope, for his sake, recovers quickly and completely) or just being kind of dismissive of him generally. Yeah, he's kind of the Fleury of the AHL, but he's been a pretty good regular season goalie. All he needs to do is be solid for the big club. It's hilarious to me how people were treating him like a legitimate future option last year, but now hardly anyone seems excited to see him get a shot. It's especially hilarious considering this board's obsession with giving youth a chance.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

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Aug 15, 2008
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I also don't really like how people are writing off Zatkoff as a temporary replacement for Vokoun (who I hope, for his sake, recovers quickly and completely) or just being kind of dismissive of him generally. Yeah, he's kind of the Fleury of the AHL, but he's been a pretty good regular season goalie. All he needs to do is be solid for the big club. It's hilarious to me how people were treating him like a legitimate future option last year, but now hardly anyone seems excited to see him get a shot. It's especially hilarious considering this board's obsession with giving youth a chance.

It's because of the possibility of TV not being back and ready to take over by the end of the season. His last clot took 3 months before he was cleared to play so who knows how long a 2nd clot will take?

Also, there are many free options to replace him, which is different than if we would have to move players to get an upgrade.
 

daigohgoh

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Apr 27, 2013
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I've had about 3-4 months to reflect and ponder, replay and analyze how a Crosby and a Malkin (forget Iginla, Dupuis and Neal) could not register one point in the entire series.

I wouldn't care if they got swept 4-0 if Crosby and Malkin had a combination of 16 pts over 4 games, but 0 points?

Personally, this skews my perception of this team for the playoffs this season. Regular season, no problem. Post season, oogily-moogily, who knows?

Is it likely Crosby and Malkin not score in an entire series again? I think it's so entirely possible and realistic. Just like Fleury letting in beach balls for the second straight playoffs in a row as he did versus the Isles.

I know the Penguins aren't panicking but for an outsider looking in, I'm worried.

With no disrespect to other superstars pairing in the NHL but there's no bigger scoring threat over a 4 game span than Crosby with Malkin.

Are we worried about Fleury's game this year, find another goalie (a la Vokoun but w/o the blood clot, God speed Vokoun btw).

Are we worried about Crosby and Malkin? Certainly not. But let's say, if we are concerned, who do you replace them with (if the world is your oyster). Who? You'd replace Crosby and Malkin with Malkin and Crosby. Meaning they are worth more than the Sedin Twins, Kane & Toews, Hall & Nugent-Hopkins, Getzlaf & Perry, Backstrom & Ovechkin.

To answer the OP's question: My expectation of them being in the Final is low.
 

Your Boy Troy

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Sep 19, 2013
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I also don't really like how people are writing off Zatkoff as a temporary replacement for Vokoun (who I hope, for his sake, recovers quickly and completely) or just being kind of dismissive of him generally. Yeah, he's kind of the Fleury of the AHL, but he's been a pretty good regular season goalie. All he needs to do is be solid for the big club. It's hilarious to me how people were treating him like a legitimate future option last year, but now hardly anyone seems excited to see him get a shot. It's especially hilarious considering this board's obsession with giving youth a chance.

Exactly. Let us see how Jeff Zatkoff performs at the NHL-level, if he does not perform well, then the team should look for a replacement.
 

Speaking Moistly

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I also don't really like how people are writing off Zatkoff as a temporary replacement for Vokoun (who I hope, for his sake, recovers quickly and completely) or just being kind of dismissive of him generally. Yeah, he's kind of the Fleury of the AHL, but he's been a pretty good regular season goalie. All he needs to do is be solid for the big club. It's hilarious to me how people were treating him like a legitimate future option last year, but now hardly anyone seems excited to see him get a shot. It's especially hilarious considering this board's obsession with giving youth a chance.

I just don't like the idea of going into the playoffs with Fleury and Zatkoff. I've also gone full pessimist with this.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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Exactly. Let us see how Jeff Zatkoff performs at the NHL-level, if he does not perform well, then the team should look for a replacement.

Sure, because the team's record of being proactive about goalies who don't before at the NHL level has been stellar. :laugh:
 

#66

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I've had about 3-4 months to reflect and ponder, replay and analyze how a Crosby and a Malkin (forget Iginla, Dupuis and Neal) could not register one point in the entire series.

I wouldn't care if they got swept 4-0 if Crosby and Malkin had a combination of 16 pts over 4 games, but 0 points?

Personally, this skews my perception of this team for the playoffs this season. Regular season, no problem. Post season, oogily-moogily, who knows?

Is it likely Crosby and Malkin not score in an entire series again? I think it's so entirely possible and realistic. Just like Fleury letting in beach balls for the second straight playoffs in a row as he did versus the Isles.

I know the Penguins aren't panicking but for an outsider looking in, I'm worried.

With no disrespect to other superstars pairing in the NHL but there's no bigger scoring threat over a 4 game span than Crosby with Malkin.

Are we worried about Fleury's game this year, find another goalie (a la Vokoun but w/o the blood clot, God speed Vokoun btw).

Are we worried about Crosby and Malkin? Certainly not. But let's say, if we are concerned, who do you replace them with (if the world is your oyster). Who? You'd replace Crosby and Malkin with Malkin and Crosby. Meaning they are worth more than the Sedin Twins, Kane & Toews, Hall & Nugent-Hopkins, Getzlaf & Perry, Backstrom & Ovechkin.

To answer the OP's question: My expectation of them being in the Final is low.
That's a great post. The Pens need a culture change.

Another thing to think about is if you have a coach that doesn't "get" matching up, wouldn't you stack the top 2 lines so that they can play to their abilities. I don't really care who you give Sutter to play with. When you stop Crosby and Malkin, a team has a 95% chance of winning.
 

Speaking Moistly

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That's a great post. The Pens need a culture change.

Another thing to think about is if you have a coach that doesn't "get" matching up, wouldn't you stack the top 2 lines so that they can play to their abilities. I don't really care who you give Sutter to play with. When you stop Crosby and Malkin, a team has a 95% chance of winning.

I don't think he actually understands how to stack lines or even put them together properly in general. It's one of his bigger problems, he puts Crosby and Malkin at a disadvantage from the get go. Then he expects them to carry them once his strategy gets figured out.
 

KIRK

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That's a great post. The Pens need a culture change.

Another thing to think about is if you have a coach that doesn't "get" matching up, wouldn't you stack the top 2 lines so that they can play to their abilities. I don't really care who you give Sutter to play with. When you stop Crosby and Malkin, a team has a 95% chance of winning.

This has been a problem for Bylsma when it comes to Malkin since the Pens won the cup.

Yes, I know, Neal. Well, he's top six. But, finding the right other guy for Malkin always has taken a back seat to what Bylsma thinks is best for the third and even fourth lines.
 

Tumty

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Aug 18, 2012
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Im only waiting when crosby gets ONE (1) elite, real first line winger. That line is so easy outplay in playoffs because all you have to do, is focus on crosby. And its pretty hilarious that, dan the idiot is not going to try BB in first line. He has skills to play there, dupuis have to skills play in sutter line. sorry about bad english
 

NatureBoy

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Mar 28, 2013
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Personally, I would wait and see if Zatkoff (or maybe Hartzell) can be reliable NHL backups. Sure, the situation is not ideal, but there is no need for panic just yet IMO.

What I did not like is the fact, that the article says that the plan was/is to send Despres down to the Minors. That would be a terrible decision, Niskanen absolutely needs to go and we are well under the Cap!
 

tinkezione

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Jul 22, 2013
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I don't think he actually understands how to stack lines or even put them together properly in general. It's one of his bigger problems, he puts Crosby and Malkin at a disadvantage from the get go. Then he expects them to carry them once his strategy gets figured out.

Great posts about the need for culture change. Country club approach does not unfortunately work in the league today and Bylsma should definitely by now have realized that.

The answer would be to put Dupuis from 1st to 3rd. Yeah, he's still fast and can score when the occasion appears, but he would be much better off with Sutter on 3rd. His speed and relentlessness on the forecheck would give 3rd line so much restriction power without losing a single bit of the scoring threat that it amazes me why he has not ventured that idea extensively already ages ago. Kunitz-Crosby and Malkin-Neal make solid tandems and from the current lineup (since that top-6 winger seems just to be a perennial dream) I'd seriously start planting Bennett alongside Crosby and Jokinen to ride shotgun with Malkin. No question about this and I know this has already been stated on this board umpteen times. And yeah, I hate Marian Hossa's guts, but he has really been the only stellar right wing for Crosby in the history up to date. Fast, strong, scoring machine at will and very sound also defensively. Now THAT would have been one sick, sick line for years to come if it didn't come down to Hossa's priorities.

About goalies...I don't know. Fleury's camp appearance started off shaky (to put it in a family-friendly way) but with the talent ahead of him, he'll still be good enough regular season goalie. I hope all the best for Vokoun's recovery and I suppose a good option would be to offer Hedberg similar role to what he had behind Brodeur. Zatkoff would benefit from earning some NHL games on his belt, but going into postseason with Fleury and Zatkoff is a recurring nightmare I've already problems with. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night swimming in a pool of sweat just for the thought of this scenario.
 
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Ogrezilla

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Jul 5, 2009
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Im only waiting when crosby gets ONE (1) elite, real first line winger. That line is so easy outplay in playoffs because all you have to do, is focus on crosby. And its pretty hilarious that, dan the idiot is not going to try BB in first line. He has skills to play there, dupuis have to skills play in sutter line. sorry about bad english

How many teams have 4 elite players? We already have two elite centers, a borderline elite d-man in Letang and a 40 goal scorer at wing.

I do agree about Bennett with Sid. Especially against strong defenses.
 

vikingGoalie

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Oct 31, 2010
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after much pondering. I think the problem was multi-fold.

First yes, the KCD line gets shutdown way to easily by just focusing on Crosby.
BUT how much of that is personnel and how much of that is the coach.

Against boston the typical zone entry was crosby lugging the puck many times along the wall, 2 boston defenders challenging him at the blue line, one winger is all the way across the ice on the opposing wall, the other is behind crosby somewhere in the center.

They literally would take the passing the lanes away and challenge crosby to beat 2 guys by himself. Crosby would invariably either get baited into the bad pass across that become a great scoring chance for the other team, or he would get stripped up of the puck because it's the playoffs and he's gonna get a little more interference trying to slip through.

The problem here is that he shouldn't do either, and the coach needs to adjust the zone entry as well. If Crosby see's that he has to have an outlet behind him and either almost do a mini high cycle of the puck (chicago did this a few times) or go back to the D, reset and attack again.

There is no point to dumping the puck just to turn it over, and it's even worse to turn it over at the blue line when you have all 3 wingers skating in. We talk about net front presence but we didn't maintain possession in the B's zone most of the time long enough to have one. Our forwards were not close enough to support each other so many times it was a 1 vs ?. We have to have better puck support.

I think that Malkin was able to generate better chances because mainly when he goes into beast mode he has a big enough frame that it's a lot harder to get the puck from him.

Would another puck lugger on Crosby's line help this situation, yes Bennett is the obvious solution. But it can be done with the folks on that line if they are a little more patient and if our coach changes up his plan.

At least that's my 2 cents on it. sorry for long post, it's a slow day at work... :)
 

Speaking Moistly

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First yes, the KCD line gets shutdown way to easily by just focusing on Crosby.
BUT how much of that is personnel and how much of that is the coach.

It's both. The line is too easily shutdown and Bylsma does nothing to help that. If he's going to refuse to adapt then the line has to be great enough to overcome him. KCD can't do that. If he won't change the line, then he needs to coach his ass off :)laugh:); that really won't happen.

For how beast mode Malkin was against Boston, he still had the same result as Crosby. If both lines hadn't been obviously not working there's a good chance it would have been different. It's mind boggling to me that he didn't seriously change the lines when they weren't scoring.

Maybe they should hire a coach just to handle the line up, lines and match ups.
 

vikingGoalie

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It's both. The line is too easily shutdown and Bylsma does nothing to help that. If he's going to refuse to adapt then the line has to be great enough to overcome him. KCD can't do that. If he won't change the line, then he needs to coach his ass off :)laugh:); that really won't happen.

For how beast mode Malkin was against Boston, he still had the same result as Crosby. If both lines hadn't been obviously not working there's a good chance it would have been different. It's mind boggling to me that he didn't seriously change the lines when they weren't scoring.

Maybe they should hire a coach just to handle the line up, lines and match ups.

I kinda disagree slightly on Malkin's line not getting results. Only from the standpoint that they got scoring chances. In fact they got scoring chances that *normally* they would bury.
The big thing is that they would focus on malkin, he would get the puck to Neal, and Neal being a hot/cold player was running ice cold against boston. This with Jarome I'm totally useless Iginla just floating around for the ride.
I think Neal had 6 shots at net that he clearly beat Rask and he just flat out missed the net. He scores on those and it's a completely different discussion we are having now. Sure they didn't have as many opportunities as normal regular season. But for the playoffs against a D oriented team they did enough that they should have scored at least a few times. We can rail against Blysma all we want (i do as well), but in the end of the day the player has to bury the puck when he gets the chance to do so.

The KCD line, they just flat out didn't get that many scoring chances comparatively speaking.
 

Speaking Moistly

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I kinda disagree slightly on Malkin's line not getting results. Only from the standpoint that they got scoring chances. In fact they got scoring chances that *normally* they would bury.
The big thing is that they would focus on malkin, he would get the puck to Neal, and Neal being a hot/cold player was running ice cold against boston. This with Jarome I'm totally useless Iginla just floating around for the ride.
I think Neal had 6 shots at net that he clearly beat Rask and he just flat out missed the net. He scores on those and it's a completely different discussion we are having now. Sure they didn't have as many opportunities as normal regular season. But for the playoffs against a D oriented team they did enough that they should have scored at least a few times. We can rail against Blysma all we want (i do as well), but in the end of the day the player has to bury the puck when he gets the chance to do so.

The KCD line, they just flat out didn't get that many scoring chances comparatively speaking.

I can understand why you disagree, this is really an opinion. I just think that if that line had been more balanced, read: functional, then there could have been more and/or different scoring chances. They had the same number of goals at the end of the series. If Neal was cold then the LW should have been someone to help with that, Iginla sure as hell wasn't that player.

Both lines didn't score, just for different reasons. Neither line worked, they both should have been broken up.
 

Pick87your71Poison

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We might be the best team in the league. That's where our upside is right now.



This is the best group of top 6 forwards we've had in the Crosby era. Not only is the top 6 about as good as 2008, but we have a backup top 6 guy playing on the third line who can play top 6 wing or center.

Nope, your top 6 is defined by how many top 6 elite world talents you have. Guys like Neal, Kunitz, Beau that can be very productive and fit the top 6-type role on almost any other team don't count because they are not Crosby/Malkin and cannot dominate the ice every shift on their own. We need 6 of those guys and then we can have a legit top 6 that isn't embarassing for a contending team.
 

Pick87your71Poison

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Questions really should be...would NYI and OTT have made the playoffs if it was 82 games?

Either way, NYI and OTT (as they were) should have been breezes...but they weren't. Now if Fleury had not shat the bed against NYI who knows if it would have gone 6 games. Combined that with the fact that the Penguins didn't exactly take them seriously take them serious after Game 1 and it caught them in the butt.

My expectation is...

Kuntiz-Crosby-Dupuis doesn't get broken up unless there is an injury. The line excels and struggles...but it is what it is with Bylsma.

Winger-Malkin-Neal the LW becomes a revolving door which causes the line to under perform. Neal 30 goals, Malkin 80 some points.

Third line has Sutter doing adequate...but only adequate. He underwhelms for a decent part of the season and the RW/LW change daily which plunges them into chaotic play with no chemisty. They are not counted on to score at any point. Glass sees significant time there.

Fourth line, see third line.

Defense:

Martin-Orpik another solid season from them but Martin doesn't have near the comeback year he did last year but much better than 2 years ago. Orpik regresses but is serviceable.

Letang-Scuds works. It becomes a cornerstone that the team leans on although Letang doesn't score as many points and the brain fart plays continue

Third pairing combos change regularly with Despres and Bortuzzo seeing the bulk of the play. They are good and serviceable but not outstanding.

Goaltending

Fleury keeps a .900 SV%, 2.5+ GAA all season. We see shades of glory but the usual MAF rears its head at times.

Zatkoff is meh in the games he is in. Brent Johnson good...thats about it

Ottawa wasn't a breeze? This is the NHL playoffs... and against a very good defensive team, not the AHL. We won in 5 games and the 1 loss was in double OT after a hyper-late goal just to keep them alive. Outisde of that, we dmoinated, scoring 13 goals in the last 2 games and pulling their Vezina-candidate type goalie twice.

The insanity on this board even given the brutal end to last year is just ridiculous.... that Ottawa series was not close and at not point looked like it was once it started
 

Pick87your71Poison

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Questions really should be...would NYI and OTT have made the playoffs if it was 82 games?

Either way, NYI and OTT (as they were) should have been breezes...but they weren't. Now if Fleury had not shat the bed against NYI who knows if it would have gone 6 games. Combined that with the fact that the Penguins didn't exactly take them seriously take them serious after Game 1 and it caught them in the butt.

My expectation is...

Kuntiz-Crosby-Dupuis doesn't get broken up unless there is an injury. The line excels and struggles...but it is what it is with Bylsma.

Winger-Malkin-Neal the LW becomes a revolving door which causes the line to under perform. Neal 30 goals, Malkin 80 some points.

Third line has Sutter doing adequate...but only adequate. He underwhelms for a decent part of the season and the RW/LW change daily which plunges them into chaotic play with no chemisty. They are not counted on to score at any point. Glass sees significant time there.

Fourth line, see third line.

Defense:

Martin-Orpik another solid season from them but Martin doesn't have near the comeback year he did last year but much better than 2 years ago. Orpik regresses but is serviceable.

Letang-Scuds works. It becomes a cornerstone that the team leans on although Letang doesn't score as many points and the brain fart plays continue

Third pairing combos change regularly with Despres and Bortuzzo seeing the bulk of the play. They are good and serviceable but not outstanding.

Goaltending

Fleury keeps a .900 SV%, 2.5+ GAA all season. We see shades of glory but the usual MAF rears its head at times.

Zatkoff is meh in the games he is in. Brent Johnson good...thats about it

You are just posting about basically the worst case scenario, not very the team, but very almost every individual player on the roster. Combined that with the fact that you entirely discount what they actually did in the playoffs last year, and I'm thrilled I can actually enjoy great things in the world rather than being upset all the time that not every piece of every aspect is perfect.
 

PensBandwagonerNo272*

Forgot About Sid
Sep 10, 2012
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Do you mean weakest physically or weakest at playing hockey? I hope you mean weakest physically.

Physically and depth-wise. So, in general as well.

The only highlight is the upcoming defensive prospects. However, it isn't doing anything to help the active roster for the moment.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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Physically and depth-wise. So, in general as well.

The only highlight is the upcoming defensive prospects. However, it isn't doing anything to help the active roster for the moment.

Physically, I agree but not depth wise. We are better and deeper than in years past. We have arguably 5 top 6 wingers and our 13th and 14th forwards could be Jeffrey and D'ags who are capable 3rd liners. In terms of toughness and size, yeah there is an issue there but compared to last years team, we've only really lost Cooke and Kennedy (who isn't exactly tough). We have scrabbles and Sill who can also step up into 4th line roles and do fairly well. The issue I have is with veterans like Glass and Adams who continue to have guaranteed roster spots without doing much to earn it.
 

PensBandwagonerNo272*

Forgot About Sid
Sep 10, 2012
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Physically, I agree but not depth wise. We are better and deeper than in years past. We have arguably 5 top 6 wingers and our 13th and 14th forwards could be Jeffrey and D'ags who are capable 3rd liners. In terms of toughness and size, yeah there is an issue there but compared to last years team, we've only really lost Cooke and Kennedy (who isn't exactly tough). We have scrabbles and Sill who can also step up into 4th line roles and do fairly well. The issue I have is with veterans like Glass and Adams who continue to have guaranteed roster spots without doing much to earn it.

I guess it's a bit of an identity change and not necessarily bad.

We've done well for years by keeping the same formula even as players have come and gone, but the roster is so different now that there's going to be some experimenting going on and time taken to find roles. And if Fleury can't hold it down, well, it's has the potential to be pretty ugly.

Maybe the hockey gods will spare us and give us a full season of Crosalkin (knocks on wood)
 

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