What are the details around Gretzky not being classified a rookie in 1979? And why hasn't it been righted?

[TheStatican]

In his WHA year, Gretzky made $100,000 CAD ($310,000 2023 USD).
Matthews in his Swiss league year made $400,000 USD ($510,000 2023 USD)
Selanne's last year in the Finnish league he made 1,300,000 markka ($260,000 2023 USD)

There's a big difference between normal inflation and the salary inflation of hockey players as detailed here;

Hockey Inflation: The 800-Fold Increase in Hockey Player Salaries Since 1960 Is a Hat Trick - Expensivity

Even in the professional sport’s early years, star players could earn salaries that tripled what the average American worker earned. As earning potential

www.expensivity.com

 

[Moose Head]

Yes, the ruling by the NHL made no sense and was amazingly stupid, but the league was run by nonsensical fossils who were amazingly stupid, so what should we expect?

That said, I'm not into retroactively changing awards, or whatever. That's a slippery slope. It is what it is.

Obviously you can’t change the award winner, but you can recognize Gretzky as having the Rookie scoring record and any other rookie records that should be his.

 

[MadLuke]

There's a big difference between normal inflation and the salary inflation of hockey players as detailed here;

Once the salary is big enough to be considered pro and not amateur/semi pro that need to work during the season I am not sure the difference should matter.

 

[carjackmalone]

Wasn’t AHL vet Rick Knickle a 38 year old rookie during his brief run in 88

 

[Anton13]

"Major pros" whereas the Finnish league etc. were "amateurs". Even today some here use that classification.

That probably had something to do with how officially pro athletes weren’t allowed in olympics until the 90’s(?) but the rule was very weirdly enforced and blocked mainly athletes from North American pro leagues from participating. I haven’t heard anyone talk about the Finnish league as amateur in decades but maybe some people do.

Teemu with his 1.3 million Mark salary was definitely a pro already in Finland. The conversion to 2023 USD doesn’t really do justice to how much money 1.3 million was in Finland in the early 90’s. That was a CEO of a decent sized company type salary.

 

[The Panther]

Obviously you can’t change the award winner, but you can recognize Gretzky as having the Rookie scoring record and any other rookie records that should be his.

Hm, yes, I see your point.

 

[The Panther]

The WHA is the only one of those leagues that the NHL absorbed. Gretzky didn't leave one league for another like your examples did

How did Gretzky not "leave one league for another"? That's literally what he did.

Your verb, above, was "absorbed". But "raped" would be more accurate. The NHL allowed the 4 ex-WHA clubs only four protected players (only three, in Edmonton's case) to bring into the NHL. The rest of their line-ups were cast-offs who weren't good enough for the 1978-79 NHL.

Edmonton was fortunate to have Sather in charge, to have protected Gretzky, and to strike gold in the '79 and '80 drafts. Quebec also drafted pretty well and then got the Stastnys in 1980 --- all of which only made them barely competitive. But Hartford and Winnipeg were also-rans for pretty much their entire 16-year existences.

Anyway, what's bizarre is that it took the NHL about 75 years to figure out the logical way of making rules for what a "rookie" was.

 

[Albatros]

That probably had something to do with how officially pro athletes weren’t allowed in olympics until the 90’s(?) but the rule was very weirdly enforced and blocked mainly athletes from North American pro leagues from participating. I haven’t heard anyone talk about the Finnish league as amateur in decades but maybe some people do.

Teemu with his 1.3 million Mark salary was definitely a pro already in Finland. The conversion to 2023 USD doesn’t really do justice to how much money 1.3 million was in Finland in the early 90’s. That was a CEO of a decent sized company type salary.

Coincidentally the Finnish league went fully pro only after a 1995 legal case so there never was a conflict with the Olympics, more so remaining officially amateur had to do with teams not wanting to treat their players as employees with all the rights that come with it.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

Hm, yes, I see your point.

Which is exactly the same point I made in the OP! Not suggesting we revisit awards, only the record books. I don't know why people keep responding as if I had suggested we strip Ray Bourque of the Calder!

 

[ES]

Early 1990s was the real transition era in FInnish hockey when it moved from semi-pro to full pro. Indeed, the yearbook lists player professions in 1991-92 (Selänne's last full season in Finland) but not in 1992-93.

Regarding Olympics, they allowed professionals for 1988 tournament while NHL had the break for the first time ten years later.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Wasn’t AHL vet Rick Knickle a 38 year old rookie during his brief run in 88

He didn’t play until 1992-93, but yes.

 

[reckoning]

I don't think Rick Knickle qualified as a rookie because after Makarov they put the age limit at 26.

One "older rookie" in the 80s was Warren Young, who finished 4th in Calder voting in 84-85 at the age of 29. He was a career minor leaguer who was lucky enough to be put on a line with a rookie Mario Lemieux in Pittsburgh that season and scored 40 goals.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I don't think Rick Knickle qualified as a rookie because after Makarov they put the age limit at 26.

One "older rookie" in the 80s was Warren Young, who finished 4th in Calder voting in 84-85 at the age of 29. He was a career minor leaguer who was lucky enough to be put on a line with a rookie Mario Lemieux in Pittsburgh that season and scored 40 goals.

Players who are 26+ qualify as rookies, but not for the Calder trophy.

 

[Staniowski]

I certainly consider Gretzky to be a rookie in '79-'80 and he should've won the award.

Organizations like the NHL often handle stuff like this (eligibility for the Calder) very poorly. I guess because there needs to be agreement from all those involved in the decisions.

There is still potential for a major issue surrounding the Calder. What if some of the Russian players stay in the KHL for several years, and one of them (say, Michkov) becomes a major star while still in Russia, even considered the best player in the world before coming to the NHL just inside the age-limit for the Calder. So, you've got the best player in the world, 26-year-old Michkov winning the Calder.

 

[FerrisRox]

How did Gretzky not "leave one league for another"? That's literally what he did.

Because he never left anything. He was an Edmonton Oiler in 1978-79 and he was an Edmonton Oiler in 1979-80.

Neither Gretzky - nor the Oilers - left the WHA. The WHA was absorbed into the NHL and Gretzky - and the Oilers - were now in the National Hockey League, but he never "left" the WHA to do so.

 

[The Panther]

Because he never left anything. He was an Edmonton Oiler in 1978-79 and he was an Edmonton Oiler in 1979-80.

Neither Gretzky - nor the Oilers - left the WHA. The WHA was absorbed into the NHL and Gretzky - and the Oilers - were now in the National Hockey League, but he never "left" the WHA to do so.

That's like saying "he played for the Edmonton Oil-Kings and a year later he played for the Edmonton Oilers, so he never left anything."

It was a new team in a different league with different players.

 

[FerrisRox]

That's like saying "he played for the Edmonton Oil-Kings and a year later he played for the Edmonton Oilers, so he never left anything."

It was a new team in a different league with different players.

Except it's not like that at all, because he didn't play for the Edmonton Oil Kings, he played for the Edmonton Oilers. The league they were in was absorbed by the NHL and then Wayne Gretzky ... continued to play for the Edmonton Oilers.

I don't know why you want to pretend it was a "new team" that Gretzky "joined."

The 1978-78 Edmonton Oilers had Wayne Gretzky, Blair MacDonald, Brett Callighen, Ron Chipperfield and Bill Flett as their top five scorers.

All five players, coincidentally, were also on the "new team" in 1979-80. Dave Semenko and Dave Hunter also remained on the team, as did Al Hamilton, Peter Driscoll and Risto Siltanen, too.

The goaltenders, for the '78-'79 team were Dave Dryden and Ed Mio, but in 1979-80 Gretzky had to adapt to... Dave Dryden and Ed Mio.

Could it be... that the Edmonton Oilers are, in fact, the same team as ... the Edmonton Oilers?

 

[gretzkyoilers]

The distinction isn't clean or laid out.

In his WHA year, Gretzky made $100,000 CAD ($310,000 2023 USD).
Matthews in his Swiss league year made $400,000 USD ($510,000 2023 USD)
Selanne's last year in the Finnish league he made 1,300,000 markka ($260,000 2023 USD)

When Ovechkin was drafted out of the RSL, it was the clear cut second best hockey league in the world. Mitchkov will be eligible when he joins the NHL, and is making as much in the KHL as he is in the NHL under an ELC.

The AHL in the 60s was the second best league in the world and comparable in quality (if not higher) than the WHA in 1978-79. But AHL players were eligible for the Calder. Crozier won the Calder coming from the AHL. Kent Douglas too. Most of the Calder winners in the 50s and 60s were coming out of strong professional leagues.

The rule has functionally only existed for two seasons (1978-79 and 1979-80) and exclusively to punish WHA players (in this same, Hedberg and Gretzky). It never applied to the WHL or AHL when those leagues were deep. Or the Soviet or Russian leagues. Or any other league.

Václav Nedomanský was eligible in 1977-78, despite coming from the WHA.


The NHL absorbed the WHL in 1926 and all the WHL stars were considered rookies in 1926-27.

The WHA still existed in 1978-79, but Hedberg wasn't eligible for the Calder.

I also think the NHL felt slighted against the WHA. As stated, "The WHA tried to capitalize on the lack of hockey teams in a number of major American cities and mid-level Canadian cities, and also hoped to attract the best players by paying more than NHL owners would." Also, "It had an acrimonious relationship with the NHL, resulting in numerous legal battles, as well as competition for control of players and markets."

When the NHL absorbed the Oilers and other teams, their attitude towards Gretzky was like, "too bad kid, you played pro already."

 

[Andy6]

Except it's not like that at all, because he didn't play for the Edmonton Oil Kings, he played for the Edmonton Oilers. The league they were in was absorbed by the NHL and then Wayne Gretzky ... continued to play for the Edmonton Oilers.

I don't know why you want to pretend it was a "new team" that Gretzky "joined."

The 1978-78 Edmonton Oilers had Wayne Gretzky, Blair MacDonald, Brett Callighen, Ron Chipperfield and Bill Flett as their top five scorers.

All five players, coincidentally, were also on the "new team" in 1979-80. Dave Semenko and Dave Hunter also remained on the team, as did Al Hamilton, Peter Driscoll and Risto Siltanen, too.

The goaltenders, for the '78-'79 team were Dave Dryden and Ed Mio, but in 1979-80 Gretzky had to adapt to... Dave Dryden and Ed Mio.

Could it be... that the Edmonton Oilers are, in fact, the same team as ... the Edmonton Oilers?

Very true. He wasn't a rookie because he had already played a season in a league that was equivalent to the NHL and which, on top of that, had merged with it. I recollect that 5 of the top 11 NHL scorers in 79-80 were players from the WHA. It would have been unfair to the real rookies of that season to classify an experienced major-leaguer as a rookie.

 

[Michael Farkas]

equivalent to the NHL

Nah. It was a somewhat top heavy minor league. Sure, 6 of the top 11. One of which was Gretzky, one was a Gretzky linemate.

When you expand the sample...only 33 of the top 100 scorers in 1980 had any WHA experience. Which isn't really fair unto itself either...because that includes:
- Rookie Michel Goulet who played one year there because he couldn't play in the NHL.
- Bengt-Ake Gustafsson who played two WHA playoff games in '79 and nothing else.
- Guys like Robert MacMillan who had been playing in the NHL since 74-75, but took a few extra bucks early on while the gettin' was good...

I won't even go into the staying power of these top scorers as the league improved after absorbing part of a minor league...while "6 of 11" may be true, but misleading as an indication of league quality...

 

[The Panther]

Could it be... that the Edmonton Oilers are, in fact, the same team as ... the Edmonton Oilers?

Not really. The name of the team was the same, but the League and the players were different. I mean, do you acknowledge that it was a different league?

The Oilers actually entered the NHL with only 3 protected players, which means about 90% of their WHA roster was purged. Sather managed to get several players back by trade or expansion-draft or whatever, but there was a cost to all of them. Several of the WHA guys (like Dave Dryden) lasted only months or less than a year in the NHL and then were toast.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Gretzky talks about it in his book.

"That year they also announced I couldn't win the Calder Trophy as Rookie of the Year. They said my season in the WHA counted as a year of pro hockey, even though my WHA points could not count towards my career totals. It shows you how much the NHL was worrying about the WHA at that time."

Another neat note from the same page

"Then it was announced that they don't split the Art Ross Trophy for the scoring leader and had given the whole thing to Marcel based on more goals. I didn't know that was the rule until then, and I didn't agree with it, either. What did that say to all the kids who heard a thousand times, "An assist is as important as a goal"?
Even though I've won the Art Ross Trophy nine times I still believe the rule should be changed, so team play can be honoured. To me, the best players in hockey are the ones who make their teammates look good, the ones who make their teams win. Truth is, we were all great goal scorers as juniors. In my book, learning to think "them" instead of "me" is what makes you a professional, and it's what makes you a winner. If there's one thing I'd like to be remembered for, it's that I tried tot think of "them" more than "me".

The simple answer is to create the Gordie Howe Award for the guy who scored the most goals in the season. Give the Art Ross Trophy to the scoring title leader. If there's a tie, both names go on it".

 

[Hobnobs]

When Ovechkin was drafted out of the RSL, it was the clear cut second best hockey league in the world. Mitchkov will be eligible when he joins the NHL, and is making as much in the KHL as he is in the NHL under an ELC.

That's not true. After the 80s, russia was never again a clear cut second best league. It aws the second best from time to time but never clear cut.

 

[Moose Head]

Gretzky talks about it in his book.

"That year they also announced I couldn't win the Calder Trophy as Rookie of the Year. They said my season in the WHA counted as a year of pro hockey, even though my WHA points could not count towards my career totals. It shows you how much the NHL was worrying about the WHA at that time."

Another neat note from the same page

"Then it was announced that they don't split the Art Ross Trophy for the scoring leader and had given the whole thing to Marcel based on more goals. I didn't know that was the rule until then, and I didn't agree with it, either. What did that say to all the kids who heard a thousand times, "An assist is as important as a goal"?
Even though I've won the Art Ross Trophy nine times I still believe the rule should be changed, so team play can be honoured. To me, the best players in hockey are the ones who make their teammates look good, the ones who make their teams win. Truth is, we were all great goal scorers as juniors. In my book, learning to think "them" instead of "me" is what makes you a professional, and it's what makes you a winner. If there's one thing I'd like to be remembered for, it's that I tried tot think of "them" more than "me".

The simple answer is to create the Gordie Howe Award for the guy who scored the most goals in the season. Give the Art Ross Trophy to the scoring title leader. If there's a tie, both names go on it".

Agree with Gretzky to an extent, but I think PPG should be the first tie breaker. If it’s still the same, both players should win the award.

 

[MadLuke]

One element that add to Gretzky point is the accepted tie for the Maurice Richard trophy, there is no give it to the one with more assists or less game played.

One could say a sign of a less prestigious award, true, but that would have made the suggested change Gretzky talked about easy to that year.